E-3i ?

[olymac]

The E3 came out just barely a year ago. That means the ?E-5 would take at least another ?2 years to appear.

As it is the E3 is looking a little less competitive than the competition ... D300, A700 etc ....

Any bets on the appearance of an E-3i ?

[drakon09]

Nope.

But I would take a CCD-based E-3 in a heartbeat!

[theITguy]

There can only be 1 winner in throughput performance. But each of the manufacturers are winners in their own right so long as the camera sells well and they are making profits.

Do not think there will be a E-3i. The next will be E-5 I believe, but not before 2009. Do not forget there will be the E-510 replacement and maybe a new category. By that time they will have a new and better 12-14MP sensor into the E-5, which will be summer or fall of 2009.

[NorthernLights]

Originally Posted by olymac The E3 came out just barely a year ago. That means the ?E-5 would take at least another ?2 years to appear. As it is the E3 is looking a little less competitive than the competition ... D300, A700 etc .... Any bets on the appearance of an E-3i ?

Frankly, Oly has very good pro body in the E3. Which other pro body sells for <$3K??

Only great problem for oly is the ultra expensive lenses. They are excellent optically but priced out compared to similar ones fr Nikon and Canon.

[drakon09]

Originally Posted by NorthernLights Frankly, Oly has very good pro body in the E3. Which other pro body sells for <$3K?? Only great problem for oly is the ultra expensive lenses. They are excellent optically but priced out compared to similar ones fr Nikon and Canon.

I wouldn't trade them for a Canon or a Nikon.

In any case it is a misconception to say Oly lenses are ultra-expensive; you cannot compare SHG lens prices against the 'L's or the Nikon-equivalent - compare them with the HG lenses instead because the HG lenses are what the 'L's are competing with.

The SHGs are over-engineered and therefore very expensive, but you get what you pay for.

[theITguy]

The HG lens are cheap (relatively) for the value you get.

[spidey89]

I agree about the HG lens

[olymac]

Originally Posted by drakon09 Nope. But I would take a CCD-based E-3 in a heartbeat!

How about a Fujifilm based Super CCD sensor

After all Fujifilm is one of the 4/3 supporting companies ..... a 12M Fujifilm Super CCD sensor in the present E3 body and call it the E3i .......

[microcosm]

Originally Posted by olymac How about a Fujifilm based Super CCD sensor After all Fujifilm is one of the 4/3 supporting companies ..... a 12M Fujifilm Super CCD sensor in the present E3 body and call it the E3i .......

Call it the F-3 instead?? Ha ha ha... sorry, cannot help it... always loved my old Nikon F-3. LOL.

[viewwing]

Originally Posted by microcosm Call it the F-3 instead?? Ha ha ha... sorry, cannot help it... always loved my old Nikon F-3. LOL.

Bro, you aren't itching for the D3 are ya?

As for E3i, I read that the CCD sensors could not support live view... can we have it similiar to the E-330 then... 1 sensor for liveview and 1 CCD for the main one lesser lag time as well... thats the only thing i find lacking in the E3 :P adds more to the poison if it have the same liveview as the E-330 system.

[theITguy]

Originally Posted by olymac How about a Fujifilm based Super CCD sensor After all Fujifilm is one of the 4/3 supporting companies ..... a 12M Fujifilm Super CCD sensor in the present E3 body and call it the E3i .......

Oh ya.... I will love the Fujifilm sensor on a E body for high megapixel, studio use with great dynamic range. But I think Fujilim and Olympus just cannot stand each other, or rather the working relationship with Matsushita (Panasonic Imaging's parent) is too great to risk to work with Fujifilm.

[microcosm]

CCD? Nothing beats Kodak for realism in colours... Fuji might have the wider dynamic range but Kodak's accurate reproduction of colours and contrast is more important to me. Hope Olympus is putting their money for R&D into this too... they never fail to surprise if they are up to something... LOL.

Well, like Depeche Mode sang in the Exciter album, "dream on"...

[Mikefellh]

Originally Posted by viewwing As for E3i, I read that the CCD sensors could not support live view...

CCD's can't support live view? Then how did my C-700, a camera that had a CCD and an electronic viewfinder do live view?

I still don't know why manufacturers choose to use CMOS...it's inherently noisier than CCD (due to the technology involved)...probably because it's cheaper to manufacture (the reason why webcams all use CMOS).

[ricleo]

Originally Posted by Mikefellh CCD's can't support live view? Then how did my C-700, a camera that had a CCD and an electronic viewfinder do live view? I still don't know why manufacturers choose to use CMOS...it's inherently noisier than CCD (due to the technology involved)...probably because it's cheaper to manufacture (the reason why webcams all use CMOS).

That you are wrong, the CMOS sensors of Canon DSLRs and Nikon's D3 offers the best image quality (in terms of signal to noise performance) compared to the the CCD based sensors of almost all other DSLR competitors. Don't think that this is a fact that can be disputed (At least currently).

[drakon09]

Originally Posted by ricleo That you are wrong, the CMOS sensors of Canon DSLRs and Nikon's D3 offers the best image quality (in terms of signal to noise performance) compared to the the CCD based sensors of almost all other DSLR competitors. Don't think that this is a fact that can be disputed (At least currently).

Ah, that's where you're wrong. Native SNR of CCD-sensors is better than that of MOS-sensors; but MOS-sensors are cheaper to fabricate, and the signals are easier to manipulate, so it's easier to remove noise at the sensor level.

[Mikefellh]

Originally Posted by Mikefellh I still don't know why manufacturers choose to use CMOS...it's inherently noisier than CCD (due to the technology involved)...probably because it's cheaper to manufacture (the reason why webcams all use CMOS).

Originally Posted by ricleo That you are wrong, the CMOS sensors of Canon DSLRs and Nikon's D3 offers the best image quality (in terms of signal to noise performance) compared to the the CCD based sensors of almost all other DSLR competitors. Don't think that this is a fact that can be disputed (At least currently).

Here we go again...I said the sensor is noisier, it's the nature of CMOS that it's noisier than CCD BEFORE processing. Even a RAW file is processed by the camera to remove the noise.

Now I give it to the high-end Nikon for their lack of noise at high ISOs, but if the image is processed to remove noise, how much image detail is being removed at the same time?

[olymac]

Ok, ok ...... how about an E3i with:

1. Foveon X3 (or maybe even Kodak/Fujifilm CCD ....) 12 - 14 MP sensor.

2. Improved LV, ? aka E420 with Contrast Phase detection mode ....

Shouldn't be too difficult for Olympus to incorporate those upgrades into an interim E3 model .....

[olymac]

The way I see it.

1. The hard-core Oly users would have gotten the E3. These people will wait for the ?E5 in ?2/3/4 years time.

2. The fence-sitters who are using the E510/410 do need a more compelling reason to upgrade. Otherwise they would have gotten the E3 already.

3. Newbies will prob start with the E510 / ?E520 or the E420.

4. Switchers fr .... where? Think D300, 40D, 450D, A350, A700 ...... S5Pro .... where? How to buy a 10 MP E3 in 6 months time?

So what will happen to the E3 market in 6 months to a year time while awaiting ?E5.

If E3i body comes out with just those 2 features mentioned (of course more the merrier), at the present E3 body price, it should get some from Group 1, some from Group 2, maybe some from Group 3 and hopefully many from Group 4.

Also sell the older E3 kit with the outgoing 14-54 mm lens included at old E3 body only price, it'll also get some from Gp 2 and Gp 3. And this will hopefully clear out all the old E3 and 14-54 stocks ......

And when the dust settles after the E3i in another year or so, the ?E5 will SOON be out .....

[theITguy]

Originally Posted by olymac The way I see it. 1. The hard-core Oly users would have gotten the E3. These people will wait for the ?E5 in ?2/3/4 years time. 2. The fence-sitters who are using the E510/410 do need a more compelling reason to upgrade. Otherwise they would have gotten the E3 already. 3. Newbies will prob start with the E510 / ?E520 or the E420. 4. Switchers fr .... where? Think D300, 40D, 450D, A350, A700 ...... S5Pro .... where? How to buy a 10 MP E3 in 6 months time? So what will happen to the E3 market in 6 months to a year time while awaiting ?E5. If E3i body comes out with just those 2 features mentioned (of course more the merrier), at the present E3 body price, it should get some from Group 1, some from Group 2, maybe some from Group 3 and hopefully many from Group 4. Also sell the older E3 kit with the outgoing 14-54 mm lens included at old E3 body only price, it'll also get some from Gp 2 and Gp 3. And this will hopefully clear out all the old E3 and 14-54 stocks ...... And when the dust settles after the E3i in another year or so, the ?E5 will SOON be out .....

Wah, swapping statements. I bought the E-3 becoz of its weatherseal capabilities, which under the Canon and Nikon system I cannot afford. The other benefit is the great lens (such as the 12-60 and the 7-14) I can get without breaking my bank for a body (D3, 1Ds etc)

[Mikefellh]

Originally Posted by olymac The way I see it. 1. The hard-core Oly users would have gotten the E3. These people will wait for the ?E5 in ?2/3/4 years time. 2. The fence-sitters who are using the E510/410 do need a more compelling reason to upgrade. Otherwise they would have gotten the E3 already. 3. Newbies will prob start with the E510 / ?E520 or the E420.

You can't make such black & white comments pigeon holing users like that. You've certainly ruffled my feathers. My personal response to your points:

1. Those Olympus FourThirds users who HAVEN'T bought the E-3 (or E-1) are no less "hard-core" than those who have...in fact some who use the E-xxx cameras are even more hardcore; see my Porsche comment below.

2. Why should we upgrade to a camera we don't want, when our current E-5xx/4xx/3xx does everything we need it to be, and feels good in the hands.

3. I won't even get started with you implying that E-5xx/4xx users are newbies!!!


When I was looking for an SLR three years ago I looked at the E-1...it was big, bulky, heavy, poorly designed (the left half of the camera was missing) and EXPENSIVE. The E-300 was also expensive (at the time the E-300 dual lens kit was twice the price of the current E-510 dual lens kit price, at least in North America) but it's the camera I bought because it was lighter, more compact, and had a better feel in my hands. I still had some reservations about the camera due to its oversized grip (having used an E-4xx sized SLR for 20 years) but I bought it. I was no more or less a newbie then if I had bought the E-1 at that point; actually I had used a fully manual SLR for 20 years so I knew aperture, shutter speed, how to use a light meter, etc. so I was certainly not a newbie!

Today I own just about every accessory for it including the grip, wired & wireless remote, and lots of other accessories for it that E-3/E-1 users I've seen haven't bought, so in that regard I see myself as MORE a hard-core user than those E-x users!

Look at it this way...I have a neighbour who drives a Porsche Boxter...she only uses it as her every day commuter car...she hasn't customized it, go to Porsche meets, or race it. On the other hand there are Volkswagen Beetle owners who have really customize their vehicles, they go to VW meets, they race their cars, etc. Just because you have an expensive high-performance body doesn't make you any better than those who buy the basic models.

What can make me buy an E-3...NOTHING!!!!
OR
Reduce the price by $1200 (CDN), reduce the size, reduce the weight...oh wait, there's already a camera like that, the E-510!!!

I was at a camera show yesterday where Olympus had a booth...I tried the latest bodies they had on display with the latest lenses. The camera there that said the loudest "I'm your next camera" wasn't the E-3...it was the E-510! The E-3 while a better design than the E-1 is still too big and bulky for my liking.

To me someone who buys the E-3 just because it's the top of the line and thinks those who don't use it are newbies is just a poser...someone who thinks, "I own the E-3 so that makes me a hard-core Olympus user, and everyone else are just wannabes."