E3 Camera Grade - Semi-pro or Pro??

[Oly5050]

Just wanted to ask what grade do u guys consider the E3 to be?

Is it in the same grade as the Nikon D300, Canon 40D or 45D, or with the Nikon D3, or with the Canon Mark 1D3s?

If you could peg DSLRS into 3 grades - amateur, semi-pro, pro (not sure if u guys consider this grading appropriate), how would u slot the N, C, O and S into these grades?

Amateur DSLR

Semi-Pro DSLR

Pro DSLR

[DiGdUb]

i feel its in the semi-pro range, same as nikon d300, canon 40d and sony a700.

[blurboiboi]

specs vs specs wise(D3/MIII vs E3).. perhaps E3 should be considered semi-pro ba...
but its features are more than enough for a professional to accomplish his task already....

[Kirika]

I personally feel the classification of pro etc etc is misleading. But by pricing conventions, I'd place the E3 squarely in the semi-pro category. I suppose if the E3 were like the D3, it'd have some really crazy specs even if it still uses a 4/3 sensor.

[Oly5050]

Yeah..I guess u guys are right. Although it is considered the pro DSLR within Olympus line-up, among all DSLR, it probably lines up with the semi-pro.

How about this?

Price - Semi-pro
Features - Pro or Semi-pro?
Lens range - Pro or Semi-pro?
Systems support (eg. flash, accessories, etc etc) - Pro or Semi-pro?
Overall system - Pro or Semi-pro?

What features are considered to be required for professional level. I know this can be damn subjective and may just eventually be semantics, but I think interesting enough for discussion, right?

[VR Man]

As long as the camera can take good pictures and it suits your shooting needs and styles, that is all that matters.

A "pro" camera depending on the benchmarks, may give one a sense of security and confidence. If this helps you take better pictures then good for you.

One of the things that a "pro" camera should have is good weatherproofing, i.e. splashproof and dustproof. Splashproof is not the same as waterproof.

Those of us that choose the E-3 or are looking to upgrade, like myself , value also the lens line up that Olympus has. It is a light weight system compared to N and C. Try carrying the 1DsMk3 or D3 for 2 hours continuously, you need solid biceps!

[theITguy]

Can add a 4th category call "Crap"?

Entry. Semi-Pro, Pro are just to smoke pple who dunno about camera lah, to impress them, make them look stupid.

A Mamiya RZ67 also Pro, but no weatherseal, then how?

Dun bother the category lah.

[weishengg]

i think its pro features at semi-pro price!

[nikkie]

no need to care whether it is labelled pro or not. so long as you can shoot well w it and you get paid professionally for it, it is your pro camera.

[drakon09]

That's it, I'll only do paid jobs with my Leica IIIf RF from now on....

Seriously, amateur/serious-amateur/semi-pro/pro/super-pro/uber-pro/pro-pro/pro to the power of 100 are just marketing terms.

If the cam does the job (even a simple Holga), then the cam does the job.

At the end of the day, no one (except gearheads) will question the camera, only the image.

[OlyFlyer]

Originally Posted by drakon09 That's it, I'll only do paid jobs with my Leica IIIf RF from now on.... Seriously, amateur/serious-amateur/semi-pro/pro/super-pro/uber-pro/pro-pro/pro to the power of 100 are just marketing terms. If the cam does the job (even a simple Holga), then the cam does the job. At the end of the day, no one (except gearheads) will question the camera, only the image.

I was about to write something similar but it is better that a real pro responded this way. The camera is a tool, and if it pays off doing its job that's what counts. Of course, there has always been people who buy cameras for the 'cool look', so to 'look pro', one has to add the grip as well. I don't care much about how I look with the camera, so I keep my grip in a bag at home, used only for about a day, just to test it out. Of course, neither the grip nor the E-3, regardless of pro or semi pro classification, makes better images than what my eyes can see.

[Oly5050]

Of course we all know a lot of the "pro" labelling has got to do with marketing, and also, pricing. To some, if it ain't expensive, it ain't pro. Of course, being able to label something pro, enables the sellers to sell it at a higher price, claiming greater quality, greater precision, greater reliability etc.

From what I have gathered, it would appear that many people do not consider the E3 a pro-grade camera. In fact, comparing it with the A200, A350, Nikon D300, Canon 40D etc, implies it is semi-pro. Of course, we all know that the reason why it is pegged at that level is because of its pricing. I appreciate Olympus for not being idiotic and pricing their pro cameras like the Nikon D3 and the Canon 1D, just so that it is "pro-grade", else I would not be able to afford it.

I guess it all boils down to ignorance for lumping E3 with the semi-pro cameras. In any case, the more we discuss, the more complicated it becomes cos definition of pro is quite clear, but pro does not equate to better. As we have seen, some of the best photographers around are not professionals at all.

[Kirika]

So far, besides the sensor thing, "pro" cameras (with reference to Canikon models) seem to have a feature set well suited to some very specialized uses. I do not think it should refer so much to a professional's tool but more of a toolset with the kitchen sink thrown in that would be able to handle some unusual situations. Maybe some working pros (and amateurs) may need the high FPS to capture some critical one-off shots, or similar high-spec stuff like that. Otherwise, even cheap low-end compacts can be used to capture compositions that are downright stunning. Depends on the need, ya?

[Oly5050]

Originally Posted by Kirika So far, besides the sensor thing, "pro" cameras (with reference to Canikon models) seem to have a feature set well suited to some very specialized uses. I do not think it should refer so much to a professional's tool but more of a toolset with the kitchen sink thrown in that would be able to handle some unusual situations. Maybe some working pros (and amateurs) may need the high FPS to capture some critical one-off shots, or similar high-spec stuff like that. Otherwise, even cheap low-end compacts can be used to capture compositions that are downright stunning. Depends on the need, ya?

How about a list on what constitutes pro features? I will start and we can go on from there. I am not going to put weather-proof cos I think only E3 has that, right? Please feel free to add on to this list, cos this is just off the top of my head.

01. Dual memory card slots
02. RAW capability
03. High ISO capability (at least 1800?)
04. High fps (5 or more?)
05. Rugged body construction
06. Integrated or modular battery grip
07. Full frame sensor technology (4/3 is full frame)
08. Fast start-up time
09. No shutter lag
10. Power sleep modes for quick start ups again
11. Remote cable and wireless remote control operation
12. Anti-shock mirror option
13. Fast AF times
14. Multiple AF points
15. C-AF, M-AF, S-AF plus M-AF over-ride on C and S-AF
16. Timer options
17. Ability to control external flash set ups
18. Ergonomic features
19. Underwater option
20. Ability to clean sensor - manual or auto

[Mikefellh]

What you've listed is common to most of the E line.

If you want to pick out a pro feature, how about a long life shutter, 150,000 activations vs. 30,000-50,000 (although I've met amateurs who burn through shutters more often than pros do).

Top mounted LCD display.

Mechanical manual controls (like the L1 had), none of this pushing button nonsense to change aperture/shutter.

[microcosm]

The "pro" label in the real world sense refers to the camera's ability to meet the needs of a professional photographer, and in this case, everything about the E-3 is professional, especially the main points of picture quality and build quality. It is spec-ed way above similarly priced offerings from the competition...

But consumers get confused... well, that is Olympus marketing's problem to solve. When I was out shopping for a camera years back to switch from film to digital, Olympus was the only camera that met my needs. And it is in every way a pro level camera. Built like a tank (those who were out with me before can swear by it), and the lenses in the system offers more resolution and detail than other Japanese makes.

The rest is my part to produce good enough pictures for my clients.

Referencing the Olympus E-System to the other Japanese makers is simply trying to compare format to format, so that is not a good reference. Think about it, it is not a 135 format camera, just that it LOOKS like a 135 format camera...

Similarly, would you compare a Nikon film era F4s to a Pentax SLR looking 645 medium format camera? Maybe what Olympus should have done is based all their camera body design to my favourite E-10/E-20 series.... then we users would have less problems explaining to people that this is a 135 DSLR looking camera but it is actually a different format, call the Four Thirds system.

Pro level or not? The flagship models definitely are...

[viewwing]

Originally Posted by Oly5050 I am not going to put weather-proof cos I think only E3 has that, right?

IIRC the D200 and above has weather seal as well... but i'm not sure how it does under the shower like we've seen with the E1... one thing i know for sure is that nikon's consumer grade has not gone underwater without a case yet and oly has.

As for "Pro". all this are marketing gimmicks... If u can make use of the many settings and make your pictures nicer then get it. If you don't... well its going to be a fustrating journey if you think that getting a "PRO DSLR" will make ur pictures look great magically.

Decide on what u need and then, buy what u need.

[Oly5050]

[quote=Mikefellh;3964417]What you've listed is common to most of the E line.

If you want to pick out a pro feature, how about a long life shutter, 150,000 activations vs. 30,000-50,000 (although I've met amateurs who burn through shutters more often than pros do).

Top mounted LCD display.

Mechanical manual controls (like the L1 had), none of this pushing button nonsense to change aperture/shutter.[/QUOTE]


Ahhh....that is so true. I just tried to use the E510 and shoot in manual mode, it was tougher cos it only got 1 dial. On the E3, there were 2 dials so I could switch shutter AND aperture on the fly.

[Oly5050]

01. Dual memory card slots
02. RAW capability
03. High ISO capability (at least 1800?)
04. High fps (5 or more?)
05. Rugged body construction
06. Integrated or modular battery grip
07. Full frame sensor technology (4/3 is full frame)
08. Fast start-up time
09. No shutter lag
10. Power sleep modes for quick start ups again
11. Remote cable and wireless remote control operation
12. Anti-shock mirror option
13. Fast AF times
14. Multiple AF points
15. C-AF, M-AF, S-AF plus M-AF over-ride on C and S-AF
16. Timer options
17. Ability to control external flash set ups
18. Ergonomic features
19. Underwater option
20. Ability to clean sensor - manual or auto
21. Long life shutter (>100,000)
22. Ease of manual controls
23. Top-mounted LCD with optional backlight
24. WB sensor??
25. Clear, easy to view through optical viewfinder
26. 100% FOV on optical viewfinder (what u see is what u will get)
27. Low, virtually nil failure rate - made with high quality reliable components

[Rashkae]

Originally Posted by Oly5050 01. Dual memory card slots 02. RAW capability 03. High ISO capability (at least 1800?) 04. High fps (5 or more?) 05. Rugged body construction 06. Integrated or modular battery grip 07. Full frame sensor technology (4/3 is full frame) 08. Fast start-up time 09. No shutter lag 10. Power sleep modes for quick start ups again 11. Remote cable and wireless remote control operation 12. Anti-shock mirror option 13. Fast AF times 14. Multiple AF points 15. C-AF, M-AF, S-AF plus M-AF over-ride on C and S-AF 16. Timer options 17. Ability to control external flash set ups 18. Ergonomic features 19. Underwater option 20. Ability to clean sensor - manual or auto 21. Long life shutter (>100,000) 22. Ease of manual controls 23. Top-mounted LCD with optional backlight 24. WB sensor?? 25. Clear, easy to view through optical viewfinder 26. 100% FOV on optical viewfinder (what u see is what u will get) 27. Low, virtually nil failure rate - made with high quality reliable components

Most, if not all, are also found on the A700 and D300. And sorry to tell you, but 4/3 is NOT full-frame. Full-frame is a 35mm sensor.