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Thread: Why so called "models" with little or less experience can demand paid shoots?

  1. #521

    Default Re: Why so called "models" with little or less experience can demand paid shoots?

    hello, mystudio


    hahas, so i think, the newbie GWC and model shld just signed up for grp shoot, both can learn, and is cheap too! hahas

  2. #522
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    Default Re: Why so called "models" with little or less experience can demand paid shoots?

    Quote Originally Posted by night86mare View Post
    guy with camera

    ohhh.. i see/.. thanks!
    It is easier to critique than to create ; www.razin-photography.com
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  3. #523

    Default Re: Why so called "models" with little or less experience can demand paid shoots?

    Quote Originally Posted by xiaotinggg View Post
    well, maybe some detailed thoughts, i think the photog approached the young models either to increase their portfolio if nt try out a new theme which will save them money, isn't it?
    how much will it cost you to hire those young models for casual? im sure at the very maximum 50 dollars per hour for casual, isn't it?
    but still i feel its right to pay for their cab fare , their time and hard work

    If models are doing TFCD with most of the photographers, thn who wil pay to shoot them in the future when they are experienced?
    In conclusion, i think the photog shld just judge their models whther they are experienced, and decide thn to hire them for the shoot anot,
    for those who are demanding, i think just close one eye, all of you are grown up man compare to XMMs who are ignorant, so close one eye and move on right

    P.s. those Xmms you call them now, may become a famous model one day lo! hahas, but the fact that they started out earlier than any out potentials, they had the dare, and they are clever to ask for payments!
    1) the price has risen from "max 50 per hour" to 80 per hour, and it can only get worse when shoe prices increase, pedicure prices increase, etc

    2) i think your "models" per se tend to be people looking for a quick buck, they are not serious about looking into this line as a career, so whatever you say doesn't apply. some of these models even happily try to charge much better photographers who would help them build up their portfolio much better than GWCs. so spare us the joke of saying that "next time". the next time you see them again is when they have run out of money to buy that mango top they saw in the shop window.

    3) experienced models have been getting paid at present even when they charged nothing at the start. i think most of them actually feel the pain because these xmms are spoiling the market for them as well. i guess that says a lot hrm.

    4) well, when they do, they have the right to charge whatever they want. until then, i think it is only fair that they are realistic, and know their place. and as mentioned immediately by the numerous photographers who replied to your initial posts.. they had better hope that more gwcs come along.. because these are their cash cows.

  4. #524

    Default Re: Why so called "models" with little or less experience can demand paid shoots?

    Quote Originally Posted by xiaotinggg View Post
    well night86mare, the world has changed isnt it? laughs.
    i am groomed to become a model since the age of 15 yrs old, and now im 17 years, does that count me as experienced?
    no, im still learning along the way too

    anws, modeling rates has dropped over the past years.
    i was used to pay with 100 per hour for casual with a MUA,
    but now i followed up an MUA course and my rates dropped to half! hahas
    if im an freelance model, i think i will die with the low income
    experienced is a very flexible term, it seems.

    and no, the amount of time in it doesn't matter, won't you agree? you see, a driver can be "experienced", he could have been driving for 20 years, and he still mounts the kerb everytime he parks a car. a driver who just got his license can trump that, i'm sure you get what i mean.

    everybody learns - but certainly there is a set price for differing standards. there are also unwritten rules and things that people feel strongly about.. i won't pay money for a newbie photographer to shoot any weddings, neither would i encourage people to pay money for a newbie model even if they are newbie. to add on to their burden and headaches about how to shoot, lighting, camera control.. now they have to worry about why this "model" does not seem to be doing anything right..

    some other cases i have seen is the model insists that she can do her own makeup.. then the makeup is (if you'd pardon me) hideous. one particular case i will not mention that appears here very frequently is that of the fake eyelashes being so obviously fake that if a lizard fell on it, it would get impaled on the fake eyelash and die in agony.

    why are the model rates dropping - well you gotta ask yourself lor.. cos people spoil market rate what..

  5. #525

    Default Re: Why so called "models" with little or less experience can demand paid shoots?

    Quote Originally Posted by night86mare View Post
    1) the price has risen from "max 50 per hour" to 80 per hour, and it can only get worse when shoe prices increase, pedicure prices increase, etc

    2) i think your "models" per se tend to be people looking for a quick buck, they are not serious about looking into this line as a career, so whatever you say doesn't apply. some of these models even happily try to charge much better photographers who would help them build up their portfolio much better than GWCs. so spare us the joke of saying that "next time". the next time you see them again is when they have run out of money to buy that mango top they saw in the shop window.

    3) experienced models have been getting paid at present even when they charged nothing at the start. i think most of them actually feel the pain because these xmms are spoiling the market for them as well. i guess that says a lot hrm.

    4) well, when they do, they have the right to charge whatever they want. until then, i think it is only fair that they are realistic, and know their place. and as mentioned immediately by the numerous photographers who replied to your initial posts.. they had better hope that more gwcs come along.. because these are their cash cows.




    laughs, i think they are being really realistic now by asking for 80 per hour, hahas, well, thats justified my choice of taking a break now the market is spoiling, really.
    BUT im sure nt every XMMs dont know their limit, but do all of you really looked into the service offered and wanted coloumns and look at their portfolio? or worked with them to know that they are nt up to the requirement?
    maybe a few, but nt all, right

  6. #526

    Default Re: Why so called "models" with little or less experience can demand paid shoots?

    I think the problems we are having here is simply that profiles of the CS photographers are so diversified that everyone has his own set of actions and expectations.

    Generally for GWC (those with strong income, and esp the married), paying $$$ to xmm is relatively a cheap form of weekend hobby. Most of them have full time jobs during the weekdays and have very little time left for the weekend, especially need to spend quality time with family members, it is probably the logical way to pay to get to shoot any xmm available. They dont have the luxury of time to hunt for models.
    Since the demand outstrips the new supplies, the new stocks realise their inherent values.

    Can you imagine, a new xmm "advertises" herself ..... firstly, being new, she will simply "cut and paste" from any older sister's ads, and not knowing what to expect? TFCD .... and immediately you get 50 pm ..... what do you think she will react? .... So probably she will pick and choose a GWC ....
    Let choose this guy, his skill is impressive .... and so its her first TFCD. So easy, she couldnt do anything wrong, coz that "pro shooter" can get any shots perfect just asking her to look here, look there, stay still, move yr hands over yr head, etc...
    Success! ... the first shoot , she is delighted. That night she had a dream .... so easy to be a pro model, just sit there and stare ....
    That "pro shooter" was satisfied with the images and innocently posted the images. WHaaaa, she is pretty, GWC reacted .... and the following day, she came back from school, turn on the pc and log in to her email ..... whalau ..... so many GWC offering to shoot!!!!!!
    After checking with a few senior, she thought .... why not i start to charge a small fee .... and the rest is history....

    Even "organisers" are making the situation worst by canvassing such new xmm to join in the group shoots.

    IMO, only about 2 out of 10 regular CS models can really pose well, the other 5 are so so, but really at least 30% cmi .... good images of these xmm came mostly from the more skillful photographers.

    So, in my opinion, it is true that many of these xmm are having the wrong ideas here. I believe in rewarding, i believe in paying, I believe in respecting the xmm, but in many occasions I refuse to accept the rates quoted by the xmm. I accepted many TFCDs, but I gave them peep talks during shoot, tell them to expect hardship, and asked them to concentrate more on their study instead.

    My suggestion to the xmm is to attend some of those modelling courses, and equipped yrself well, and at least be professionally minded before expecting to be paid .....

    and for the new shooters, join those shoots with a "teacher" .... you will learn so much more, and faster, before you go pay for a xmm.
    always the Light, .... always.

  7. #527

    Default Re: Why so called "models" with little or less experience can demand paid shoots?

    Quote Originally Posted by xiaotinggg View Post
    laughs, i think they are being really realistic now by asking for 80 per hour, hahas, well, thats justified my choice of taking a break now the market is spoiling, really.
    BUT im sure nt every XMMs dont know their limit, but do all of you really looked into the service offered and wanted coloumns and look at their portfolio? or worked with them to know that they are nt up to the requirement?
    maybe a few, but nt all, right
    i don't shoot models actually, i just enjoy playing with people's shots in p&p not exactly my cup of tea.. better to shoot things that don't complain, don't need cab rides, don't need money..

    as to how bad the situation is, you can look in p&p yourself.. there are good photographers with good shots of good/mediocre models.. and much more prominent, is obvious gwc with xmm. the pairing is lethal. that said, there are xmm that show constant improvement.. whether or not they demand fee everytime so excessively, is another thing altogether. there also certain xmm that frequently only get paired up with gwc, i wonder why.
    Last edited by night86mare; 23rd April 2008 at 06:48 PM.

  8. #528

    Default Re: Why so called "models" with little or less experience can demand paid shoots?

    Quote Originally Posted by night86mare View Post
    experienced is a very flexible term, it seems.

    and no, the amount of time in it doesn't matter, won't you agree? you see, a driver can be "experienced", he could have been driving for 20 years, and he still mounts the kerb everytime he parks a car. a driver who just got his license can trump that, i'm sure you get what i mean.

    everybody learns - but certainly there is a set price for differing standards. there are also unwritten rules and things that people feel strongly about.. i won't pay money for a newbie photographer to shoot any weddings, neither would i encourage people to pay money for a newbie model even if they are newbie. to add on to their burden and headaches about how to shoot, lighting, camera control.. now they have to worry about why this "model" does not seem to be doing anything right..

    some other cases i have seen is the model insists that she can do her own makeup.. then the makeup is (if you'd pardon me) hideous. one particular case i will not mention that appears here very frequently is that of the fake eyelashes being so obviously fake that if a lizard fell on it, it would get impaled on the fake eyelash and die in agony.

    why are the model rates dropping - well you gotta ask yourself lor.. cos people spoil market rate what..



    welli laughed! i think you are quite exagerating on the lizard part, dont you think so
    hahas, well i think they just wanted to look pretty? kindly asked them to REMOVE it then, its removable! hahas. but why they will insist that they do own makeup? im sure u can tell them to re-makeup
    i got occasions when i arrived at the shoot and make up by the instructions of the photog whether light or dark and the colours, even if i make up wrongly, just do it all over again! hahas
    HEY i think news spread quite fast here if a newbie model is asking for too high rates and inexperienced, so i think lets spare the other innocent XMMs!


    ya i agreeed experienced is a flexible term, hahas,
    so i think u do really have to work with the model to tell is she experienced or not.

  9. #529

    Default Re: Why so called "models" with little or less experience can demand paid shoots?

    Quote Originally Posted by xiaotinggg View Post
    welli laughed! i think you are quite exagerating on the lizard part, dont you think so


    well, i guess you really, really, really have to see it to believe it

  10. #530

    Default Re: Why so called "models" with little or less experience can demand paid shoots?

    REALLY? but a lizard? hello if i was you i will tell her got mosquito stuck to her eyelid and request her to TAKE OUT THE FALSIES IMMEDIATELY! hahas.

  11. #531
    Senior Member Sion's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why so called "models" with little or less experience can demand paid shoots?

    Quote Originally Posted by night86mare View Post
    i don't shoot models actually, i just enjoy playing with people's shots in p&p not exactly my cup of tea.. better to shoot things that don't complain, don't need cab rides, don't need money..
    So you only shoot aunties?

  12. #532

    Default Re: Why so called "models" with little or less experience can demand paid shoots?

    Quote Originally Posted by xiaotinggg View Post
    hello, mystudio


    hahas, so i think, the newbie GWC and model shld just signed up for grp shoot, both can learn, and is cheap too! hahas
    Not sure if joining group shoot, (especially those with huge photographers to models ratio) can really helps them to learn.

    Most GWC are busy firing to get as many shots as possible, you know, the KIASU syndrome.. If any kind soul try to pose the models too long, they will get "kick" away
    Sometimes you see nice photos posted, try to asked them how they get the photos, I doubt they know.. it just happen that they are at the right place in the right time.

    And nowadays, organised shoots usually comes with many XMM and many outfits.. which means shorter time for each set...

    I still prefer the older days where shoot are done with only one or maximum 2 models. too bad.. the trend has changed.. GWC nowadays prefer to shoot as many XMM as possible within the 3 hours...

  13. #533

    Default Re: Why so called "models" with little or less experience can demand paid shoots?

    Quote Originally Posted by xiaotinggg View Post
    REALLY? but a lizard? hello if i was you i will tell her got mosquito stuck to her eyelid and request her to TAKE OUT THE FALSIES IMMEDIATELY! hahas.
    ...i think the person in question likes the lizard queen look..

    ok better stop it, later the mods come and humtum me.. hur hur
    Quote Originally Posted by Sion View Post
    So you only shoot aunties?
    trees, lakes, mountains, rocks..











    and yes, aunties la.. aunties are my favourite

  14. #534

    Default Re: Why so called "models" with little or less experience can demand paid shoots?

    Quote Originally Posted by mystudio View Post
    I still prefer the older days where shoot are done with only one or maximum 2 models. too bad.. the trend has changed.. GWC nowadays prefer to shoot as many XMM as possible within the 3 hours...
    Films vs Digital ?
    always the Light, .... always.

  15. #535
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    Default Re: Why so called "models" with little or less experience can demand paid shoots?

    After reading through, its actually pretty simple. Its all about oppertunity.

    Due to so many people here being blind to what a model should be able to do on a professional level. Many people will happily pay these so called 'models' because they want to. And these so called models are now charging because people are paying! Its simple, I dont blame them at all. Its very much like the rent, yes rates may have risen 20% in the last year or so, but landlords are charging 50% increases plus, and why? Because people are going to pay it. So there is an oppertunity to make some more profit.

    If every wanna be model that posted asking for money got no responses except for people requesting TFCD, then the ones who dont want to be models will go back to homework and the ones that really have the passion will go along with doing TFCD shoots and become more and more experienced.

    So to sum up my point, 'models' can demand paid shoots because the GWC types here are happy to pay it, so why not! Cant blame the models for asking when most of us here are stupid enough to pay.
    Last edited by wildstallion; 23rd April 2008 at 07:41 PM.

  16. #536

    Default Re: Why so called "models" with little or less experience can demand paid shoots?

    Quote Originally Posted by xiaotinggg View Post
    when i started, i was sitting on the fence, unable to decide my own opinions,
    BUT WHEN I READ FURTHUR
    to my horrors of horrors,
    there is more of a "mocking" tone added to your replies,

    is this what photographers are? commenting on XMMs and GWCs,
    i think everybody is a freahman once, isn't it? if someore didnt teach u along, give u chance, will u be who u are today?




    For sg alr alot of of girls dont meet the height, the looks ,
    so if everyone has high standards, i guess there's no more asian lookign face potraits photos,
    i admire the yong girls' brave courage to try,and im sure all of them are CONFIDENT of their figure and looks, unlike me, who is ignorant and only in modeling after being trained and coached, these young models really have the talents despite no experience. after 2 yrs of modeling and shooting, wont they be experienced too?










    No one takes gd photos just by buying a camera and point and shoot,
    just like no models is a super model after smiling for the camera.

    Logical fallacies.
    And yes,no need to deny you are biased and it is pretty obvious you are taking sides instead of sitting on the fence in this argument.

    You seem comfortable for models to charge a rather high rate even though they are inexperience but when it comes to a newbie photographer,i don't see the same standards.
    Are you having double standard?
    How is it reasonable for someone who hasn't got the jizz of things to start charging as if they are a professional.
    I think stand by my belief that these 'talents' are out to take advantage of the 'situiation' here.

    If i were to put it in a clearer perspective,the so called 'talents' are like 'merchants' in sim lim square.

  17. #537

    Default Re: Why so called "models" with little or less experience can demand paid shoots?

    Quote Originally Posted by xiaotinggg View Post
    laughs, i think they are being really realistic now by asking for 80 per hour, hahas, well, thats justified my choice of taking a break now the market is spoiling, really.
    BUT im sure nt every XMMs dont know their limit, but do all of you really looked into the service offered and wanted coloumns and look at their portfolio? or worked with them to know that they are nt up to the requirement?
    maybe a few, but nt all, right
    HAHAHAHA
    i would like to correct you


    Charging such high price when that 'particular talent' has only snap shots and a bikini shoot?
    And all of which are CMI from the way me and a few bro sees it.

    That is called realistic?
    It's only 7.30pm now!
    Why are people dreaming

  18. #538

    Default Re: Why so called "models" with little or less experience can demand paid shoots?

    Quote Originally Posted by xiaotinggg View Post
    hello, mystudio


    hahas, so i think, the newbie GWC and model shld just signed up for grp shoot, both can learn, and is cheap too! hahas
    Newbie GWC and Newbie model or newbie GWC and so-so model?

  19. #539
    Senior Member Leong23's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why so called "models" with little or less experience can demand paid shoots?

    Wow!!!! only off-line for a while, then XMM strike back.

  20. #540

    Default Re: Why so called "models" with little or less experience can demand paid shoots?

    Quote Originally Posted by Leong23 View Post
    Wow!!!! only off-line for a while, then XMM strike back.
    This is so dam fun!

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