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Thread: Why so called "models" with little or less experience can demand paid shoots?

  1. #501
    Senior Member Leong23's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why so called "models" with little or less experience can demand paid shoots?

    Talk to some "so call talent" before, they give me a impression that minimum they must have a $150 job, ie 3hr x $60 or 2hr x $80.
    If not, it don't worth their weekend and effort to travel down.

    What i means is those xmm already had a minimum wages in their mind.

  2. #502

    Default Re: Why so called "models" with little or less experience can demand paid shoots?

    Quote Originally Posted by Leong23 View Post
    Talk to some "so call talent" before, they give me a impression that minimum they must have a $150 job, ie 3hr x $60 or 2hr x $80.
    If not, it don't worth their weekend and effort to travel down.

    What i means is those xmm already had a minimum wages in their mind.
    That is just bad!

  3. #503
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    Default Re: Why so called "models" with little or less experience can demand paid shoots?

    what do you expect. CS has a reputation of DOMs and TKPs. There is only a handful that can be called cameraman, even lesser for photographers.
    Last edited by TMC; 23rd April 2008 at 01:37 PM.

  4. #504
    Senior Member Leong23's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why so called "models" with little or less experience can demand paid shoots?

    No Choice....

    Shoot Organiser are charging the GWC this way

    Example 1
    $50 per GWC x minimum 12 GWC = Total turnover $600

    $600 will split among the organiser and 3 model. Each model will easily pocket $120-$150 for a 3 hour shoot.

    Example 2 (special theme)
    $65 per GWC x minimum 15 GWC = Total turnover $975

    $975 will split among the organiser and 3 model. Each model will easily pocket $180-$240 for a 3 hour shoot.
    Last edited by Leong23; 23rd April 2008 at 03:20 PM.

  5. #505

    Default Re: Why so called "models" with little or less experience can demand paid shoots?

    Quote Originally Posted by Leong23 View Post
    Talk to some "so call talent" before, they give me a impression that minimum they must have a $150 job, ie 3hr x $60 or 2hr x $80.
    If not, it don't worth their weekend and effort to travel down.

    What i means is those xmm already had a minimum wages in their mind.
    Ultimately, such practises can exist b'cos there are ppl willing to pay for them .... who would advertise for paid shoots if there are no demand? Imagine someone offering to sell you "Singapore air".

  6. #506
    Senior Member Sion's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why so called "models" with little or less experience can demand paid shoots?

    Quote Originally Posted by Leong23 View Post
    Talk to some "so call talent" before, they give me a impression that minimum they must have a $150 job, ie 3hr x $60 or 2hr x $80.
    If not, it don't worth their weekend and effort to travel down.

    What i means is those xmm already had a minimum wages in their mind.
    I think the photographers should learn from XMMs who are smart operators.

    There is no reason to put on a pants and pack your camera bag to go out if a photo assignment is below $150.

  7. #507

    Default Re: Why so called "models" with little or less experience can demand paid shoots?

    Well,i guess some moels only do paid shoots despite being new is that EVERYONE IS BEING REALISTIC.
    Its nt as if everyones appreciate beautiful models, THE ENDING POINT IS THAT, the photographer is satisfied with the photos he took , and the model is happy with the money.


    As a model myself, Ive realised there is alot of photographers out there who is WILLING TO PAY TONS OF MONEY just to shoot me in erotic lingerie, with no conceptual idea or mood that they want, they just enjoy increasing their portfolio with sexy, hot models.




    I guess this topic doesn't have a clear line of wrong and right, it is a view of personal opinions.







    Over the two years i had in modeling and doing events, and then climbing forward to organising shoots and taking photography, the feelings has changed.
    from the time new to the camera, and poses, to a girl who starts to appreciate and fall in love with a great piece of work.







    Maybe that is why im taking break in modeling for shoots now, i dont believe in photography unless i hear a photographer who can really tell me his expectations and equipment he will be working with, and the quality of his past works.






    With the "senior photographers" here, i guess its the same, with the valued experience in photography, you will expect high quality models, like me, i have to admit im " choosy" with the photographer i've worked with.





    But everyone had a chance to learn, and improve, so why nt let this newbies improve?
    If they are willing and eager to learn, im sure they will become experienced models in time to come they clamied that they are models because of ego and money, like how photographer claimed that they are photographers because they got the passion in taking photos, and the good works they produced
    Different people, different mindset, we cant really complain and compare.
    Its like william shaman's saying : THou shall be individuals, unique in our own ways, No one will be the same, even twins







    So because of the rich-experienced photographers here, of course you will find these newbies models hilarious and demanding to ask for payments,
    but what abt those newbie photographer who wanted to learn and shoot? they will be willing to pay for an amateur model so both are fresh and work with ideas together
    REMEMBER experinced models have a certain style and even " choosy" abt the photographers or themes they worked with, and the rates of course.
    So if i am in the shoes of a newbie photog, i will be glad to hire an enthusiastic and cute young model.

  8. #508

    Default Re: Why so called "models" with little or less experience can demand paid shoots?

    when i started, i was sitting on the fence, unable to decide my own opinions,
    BUT WHEN I READ FURTHUR
    to my horrors of horrors,
    there is more of a "mocking" tone added to your replies,

    is this what photographers are? commenting on XMMs and GWCs,
    i think everybody is a freahman once, isn't it? if someore didnt teach u along, give u chance, will u be who u are today?




    For sg alr alot of of girls dont meet the height, the looks ,
    so if everyone has high standards, i guess there's no more asian lookign face potraits photos,
    i admire the yong girls' brave courage to try,and im sure all of them are CONFIDENT of their figure and looks, unlike me, who is ignorant and only in modeling after being trained and coached, these young models really have the talents despite no experience. after 2 yrs of modeling and shooting, wont they be experienced too?










    No one takes gd photos just by buying a camera and point and shoot,
    just like no models is a super model after smiling for the camera.

  9. #509
    Moderator ortega's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why so called "models" with little or less experience can demand paid shoots?

    xiaotinggg i believe in a healthy discussion, but do remember that this is a photography forum
    and what you are saying is on the border of flame baiting

    just as inexperienced photographers should not charge of learning (getting experience)
    these "models" also should not charge for learning (getting experience)

    i would not dare to charge if i am unsure of performing the task
    but i blame the photographers for being willing to pay for these "models"

    my advice for these photographers is, pool resources together and hire a professional model
    your resulting images will be many times better

    or shoot your friends, neighbours, hawkers, cleaners, kids, anyone

  10. #510

    Default Re: Why so called "models" with little or less experience can demand paid shoots?

    Quote Originally Posted by xiaotinggg View Post
    so if everyone has high standards, i guess there's no more asian lookign face potraits photos,
    i admire the yong girls' brave courage to try,and im sure all of them are CONFIDENT of their figure and looks, unlike me, who is ignorant and only in modeling after being trained and coached, these young models really have the talents despite no experience. after 2 yrs of modeling and shooting, wont they be experienced too?
    i got one question for you

    you just have to answer it, and i will be happy

    so last time at the very beginning, when no xmms charge money and willing to do tfcd
    and there were less 'newbie photographers' willing to pay that sort of money either

    then how? the professional photographers of course happy, some of the newbie who manage to xian the xmm to do tfcd for them also happy..

    but those who cannot xian, and got no money to hire professional model - they sit at home and cry? no rightttt.

    btw, i think you miss the pt here, most of the photographers here are griping about the demand, not the supply; fact is, without any demand, there will not be such ridiculous supply terms. if you get married, and some newbie photographer who just bought his camera charge you a lot of money for his wedding photographs, you think it is correct? but this is what is happening.. i suppose you'd say "siao ar, newbie photographer how to charge so much money".. then i would tell you "got lor, a lot of people like newbie wedding photographs".. and how would you feel?

    the gwc really need a lot of disciplining.. got one period is all lelong try to earn money themselves by anyhow charging slightly lower than professionals that will do the job.. then now is lelong all want to pay and lose money by anyhow paying models that do what they did in the past. so based on trend, it means gwc are all getting richer! hahahahaha.
    Last edited by night86mare; 23rd April 2008 at 05:54 PM.

  11. #511

    Default Re: Why so called "models" with little or less experience can demand paid shoots?

    Quote Originally Posted by TMC View Post
    what do you expect. CS has a reputation of DOMs and TKPs. There is only a handful that can be called cameraman, even lesser for photographers.
    you referring to those low angle shooters at expos?

  12. #512
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    Default Re: Why so called "models" with little or less experience can demand paid shoots?

    Quote Originally Posted by xiaotinggg View Post
    .......

    But everyone had a chance to learn, and improve, so why nt let this newbies improve?
    If they are willing and eager to learn, im sure they will become experienced models in time to come they clamied that they are models because of ego and money, like how photographer claimed that they are photographers because they got the passion in taking photos, and the good works they produced
    Different people, different mindset, we cant really complain and compare.
    Its like william shaman's saying : THou shall be individuals, unique in our own ways, No one will be the same, even twins

    So because of the rich-experienced photographers here, of course you will find these newbies models hilarious and demanding to ask for payments,
    but what abt those newbie photographer who wanted to learn and shoot? they will be willing to pay for an amateur model so both are fresh and work with ideas together
    REMEMBER experinced models have a certain style and even " choosy" abt the photographers or themes they worked with, and the rates of course.
    So if i am in the shoes of a newbie photog, i will be glad to hire an enthusiastic and cute young model.
    Your argument seem flawed. Why newbie photographer need to pay in order to learn to shoot or gain experience while the newbie model need to get paid to learn how to pose or gain experience?
    除了爱, 我一无所有

  13. #513

    Default Re: Why so called "models" with little or less experience can demand paid shoots?

    xiotinggg xmm, alot of photographers do not mind paying as long as the model delivers, and delivers within a reasonable ransom. Unfortunately, most of these xmms do not deliver, and worst, most of the workshop/shoot organizers do not deliver also. What they are betting on, is continual support of the unsuspecting newbies and GWCs. What we are doing, or hope to do, is to educate these unsuspecting newbies, GWCs are hopeless, so that they go not get taken for a ride.

    We cannot stop these xmms, who have no business charging, but it's a free economy so they can demand what the market will bear. However, this is a photography forum, we try to save one unsuspecting newbie at a time.
    Last edited by Deadpoet; 23rd April 2008 at 05:57 PM.
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  14. #514

    Default Re: Why so called "models" with little or less experience can demand paid shoots?

    xiaotinggg the way u post very funny, the more i read the more strange i feel.

    It's like XMM no experience must charge so that they will be more experience and charge higher in the future.

    Then those GWC shd pay cos the more they pay they more experience they get, so that they can pay more to shoot more experience so call MODELS.
    Eat breath LIVERPOOL!!!

  15. #515
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    Default Re: Why so called "models" with little or less experience can demand paid shoots?

    i have a question.

    What does GWC means? I somehow figured out what XMM means though...
    It is easier to critique than to create ; www.razin-photography.com
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  16. #516

    Default Re: Why so called "models" with little or less experience can demand paid shoots?

    Quote Originally Posted by razor View Post
    i have a question.

    What does GWC means? I somehow figured out what XMM means though...
    guy with camera

  17. #517

    Default Re: Why so called "models" with little or less experience can demand paid shoots?

    Quote Originally Posted by xiaotinggg View Post
    but what abt those newbie photographer who wanted to learn and shoot? they will be willing to pay for an amateur model so both are fresh and work with ideas together
    They are many better ways of learning how to take portrait than paying XMM with little or zero experience. How much can you learn when you put one newbie photographer and one newbie model together? GWC waiting for XMM to pose, XMM waiting for GWC to give instructions.. BLIND lead the BLIND...

    And talking about learning experience for the XMM.. the poses are like a routine to them after a few shoots.. we don't see much development from there...

  18. #518

    Default Re: Why so called "models" with little or less experience can demand paid shoots?

    Quote Originally Posted by fotoudavid View Post
    xiaotinggg the way u post very funny, the more i read the more strange i feel.

    It's like XMM no experience must charge so that they will be more experience and charge higher in the future.

    Then those GWC shd pay cos the more they pay they more experience they get, so that they can pay more to shoot more experience so call MODELS.
    This is call inequity, what's theirs is theirs, when if they have their way, what ours is theirs.

    In the normal world, the inexperience pay the experience in order to gain more experience. New photography pays experience model, new model pays experience photographers .... somehow, on this little dot, all got mixed up ...... no experience model demanding a king's ransom ...
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  19. #519

    Default Re: Why so called "models" with little or less experience can demand paid shoots?

    GWC is guy with camera



    laughs, no la, i was just directed to this thread, and read the first few page, which i do not really have any biased opinion, but when i read the rest of the 20+ pages here, i felt a lil' but of indignantity for the fellow models here, and apparently, models who dint make comments to this throughout the whole discussion? and some of the replies have a mocking tone! really! hahas





    well, maybe some detailed thoughts, i think the photog approached the young models either to increase their portfolio if nt try out a new theme which will save them money, isn't it?
    how much will it cost you to hire those young models for casual? im sure at the very maximum 50 dollars per hour for casual, isn't it?
    but still i feel its right to pay for their cab fare , their time and hard work







    If models are doing TFCD with most of the photographers, thn who wil pay to shoot them in the future when they are experienced?
    In conclusion, i think the photog shld just judge their models whther they are experienced, and decide thn to hire them for the shoot anot,
    for those who are demanding, i think just close one eye, all of you are grown up man compare to XMMs who are ignorant, so close one eye and move on right



    P.s. those Xmms you call them now, may become a famous model one day lo! hahas, but the fact that they started out earlier than any out potentials, they had the dare, and they are clever to ask for payments!







    HAHA! i think i shall sit on the fence thn trying to make some "noise" for the models, because no one responded! im sure any one of the XMMs will be angry de lo! hahas.

  20. #520

    Default Re: Why so called "models" with little or less experience can demand paid shoots?

    well night86mare, the world has changed isnt it? laughs.
    i am groomed to become a model since the age of 15 yrs old, and now im 17 years, does that count me as experienced?
    no, im still learning along the way too



    anws, modeling rates has dropped over the past years.
    i was used to pay with 100 per hour for casual with a MUA,
    but now i followed up an MUA course and my rates dropped to half! hahas
    if im an freelance model, i think i will die with the low income

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