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Thread: Why so called "models" with little or less experience can demand paid shoots?

  1. #341

    Default Re: Why so called "models" with little or less experience can demand paid shoots?

    Quote Originally Posted by satan_18349 View Post
    Well, you are challenging the standards of photographers if you are REALLY paying, so then why are you so willing to pay the un-sure market rates for the model when in the first place, you are not even sure whether the model are indeed experience or professional.

    Sorry, after your long self-defending posts, I still see only 2 points i.e.

    1) Both parties (photographers + models) are providing a service and yet only one party gets paid.

    2) Hoping to get more less "egoistic" FREE photographers and ideally FREE models for your non-profit Drumming promoting.

    I agree
    Just to add on.

    1)You mention selecting a model base on her charisma which in ths context i believe technically equates to surfae skimming.
    There is nothing mentioned about checking her background.
    2)when it comes to photographer however,you have tons of reasons listed out to skip payment to a photorapher and even citing many other 'justifications' like "this is a photography community and people should share etc".
    There are also more attacks on your part accusing many photographers as egoistic and engaging them doesn't mean they're up to par with their rate.


    These 2 points that i concluded gave me enough reasonsto believe that they are biased.
    And if you would like to know.

    You are willing to pay a model and even begin selecting her by her "charisma".
    The charisma here i believe equates to physical aspect and happily,there isn't any co-relation to her performances.
    The proper way one should enage a model should be checking on her backgrounds.
    When it comes to paying photographers, you went personal about their personality and even mentioned "even if you are a good photographer,doesn't mean others will pay you handsomely".

    If someone can deliver work equal to what they qoute then who are you to argue?

    so my displease is "why are you willing to engage a commercial model by'charisma' but yet attacking the personality of photographers when you are paying him/her to shoot the same.

    I try to put it as objective as possible.


    SN:I apologise if the word "you" appears to be confrontational because it was not meant to.=)
    Last edited by yamapi; 18th April 2008 at 04:58 PM.

  2. #342
    Moderator ortega's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why so called "models" with little or less experience can demand paid shoots?

    Quote Originally Posted by RudimentalDrummer View Post
    Very simple - No neccessasity for defending statement if everything is one-sided here - as mention (the Truth) it's a Photography Forum.

    As regards to getting Free Drumming Photographer here at CS (I think that's in a way creating a Sparks here, when it's clearly explain the way I see it - which is different from you all) - that's not so true too depending on how ones look at it (to me It's a WIn-Win) We have Video Guys & Cameramans who are Drummers too of course who does that for us monthly. To each his own,,,

    You have your point, so do I - peace.eee

    Let's move on from here ... cheers !

    Eric

    i believe that RudimentalDrummer has agreed to disagree
    so lets move on back to the topic

  3. #343

    Default Re: Why so called "models" with little or less experience can demand paid shoots?

    Bro yamapi..no problem what you mention bear some truth - and you are not totally wrong. SO I apologies to whoever I had offended out here.

    As for Models I just look at Charisma but that's how I choose.

    Thanks

    Cheers lets move on...Bros !

  4. #344

    Default Re: Why so called "models" with little or less experience can demand paid shoots?

    Show the money...........show the money.............
    Eat breath LIVERPOOL!!!

  5. #345

    Default Re: Why so called "models" with little or less experience can demand paid shoots?

    are there fewer girls out there willing to stand in front of a camera, thus creating the impression if you want to shoot a girl, you'll need to entice them with $$$?

    are there so many guys with camera (GWC) that it create the impression if you need someone to shoot something for you, there will be so many applicants, its already their honour to be selected to participate, so no need to pay them $$$?


    maybe cos "guts" to stand in front of a camera cannot be bought, so its more rare, so must pay.

    while you can just go out and buy a dslr within 30 min (inc take mrt, queue to pay at cashier), thus easily elevate someone to "professional" photographer. so "professional" photographer is a dime a dozen, thus very common, so no need to pay for one.
    Last edited by xia0taizi; 18th April 2008 at 07:18 PM.
    Fujifilm S3 Pro, Fujifilm X100, Nikon EM, DIY TLR from japan. :D

  6. #346

    Default Re: Why so called "models" with little or less experience can demand paid shoots?

    Quote Originally Posted by xia0taizi View Post
    are there fewer girls out there willing to stand in front of a camera, thus creating the impression if you want to shoot a girl, you'll need to entice them with $$$?

    are there so many guys with camera (GWC) that it create the impression if you need someone to shoot something for you, there will be so many applicants, its already their honour to be selected to participate, so no need to pay them $$$?


    maybe cos "guts" to stand in front of a camera cannot be bought, so its more rare, so must pay.

    while you can just go out and buy a dslr within 30 min (inc take mrt, queue to pay at cashier), thus easily elevate someone to "professional" photographer. so "professional" photographer is a dime a dozen, thus very common, so no need to pay for one.

    And that mentality is one we should habour?

  7. #347
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    Default Re: Why so called "models" with little or less experience can demand paid shoots?

    all the photographers are debating so much but are any of those models intended to be ''mentioned indirectly'' involved to learn of something that they should not, cannot, or encouraged not to do?

    its good maybe if this whole thread is printed and filed up as a manual, when those models demand a pay, show them the manual and tell them its a TFCD no matter what. haha

    i like reading this thread, its pretty heated up but if it doesn't make sense to the so-called models then all the efforts are wasted isn't it. by voicing out, maybe we should make it heard.

    newbie models time for cd ok!?
    Last edited by sprintist; 18th April 2008 at 09:12 PM.

  8. #348

    Default Re: Why so called "models" with little or less experience can demand paid shoots?

    Quote Originally Posted by xia0taizi View Post
    are there fewer girls out there willing to stand in front of a camera, thus creating the impression if you want to shoot a girl, you'll need to entice them with $$$?

    are there so many guys with camera (GWC) that it create the impression if you need someone to shoot something for you, there will be so many applicants, its already their honour to be selected to participate, so no need to pay them $$$?


    maybe cos "guts" to stand in front of a camera cannot be bought, so its more rare, so must pay.

    while you can just go out and buy a dslr within 30 min (inc take mrt, queue to pay at cashier), thus easily elevate someone to "professional" photographer. so "professional" photographer is a dime a dozen, thus very common, so no need to pay for one.
    Mmm, that's somehow summarize what the rest (who are looking for FREE stuff) are thinking.

    Maybe we should also hold up high as a non-profit community to promote "photography", thus expecting experienced models to offer FREE service for us. We will then PAY the most charismatic or handsome newbie photographer for him to learn from the pro models?

    Win-win situation too.
    Last edited by wakaowalao; 18th April 2008 at 09:12 PM.

  9. #349

    Default Re: Why so called "models" with little or less experience can demand paid shoots?

    u dun pay them, the "models" tell u time for sleeping
    D7100,SB910,17-50/2.8OS,105/2.8VR,85/1.8D,2xE-M1,O60/2.8,12-40/2.8,35-100/2.8,14-42,LX100

  10. #350
    Senior Member Sion's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why so called "models" with little or less experience can demand paid shoots?

    Quote Originally Posted by wakaowalao View Post

    We will then PAY the most charismatic or handsome newbie photographer for him to learn from the pro models?
    Can tell how to qualify to become "the most charismatic or handsome newbie photographer" or not?

  11. #351

    Default Re: Why so called "models" with little or less experience can demand paid shoots?

    Quote Originally Posted by sprintist View Post

    newbie models time for cd ok!?
    the thing is

    these models are not looking to do it long term

    they just want money to buy their handbags, clothing and jewellery. no money, tfcd.. they not interested in the photographs actually, they only want the money

  12. #352

    Default Re: Why so called "models" with little or less experience can demand paid shoots?

    Quote Originally Posted by wakaowalao View Post
    Mmm, that's somehow summarize what the rest (who are looking for FREE stuff) are thinking.

    Maybe we should also hold up high as a non-profit community to promote "photography", thus expecting experienced models to offer FREE service for us. We will then PAY the most charismatic or handsome newbie photographer for him to learn from the pro models?

    Win-win situation too.
    It is a market of willing buyers and willing sellers. Market forces of demand and supply determine the trend. Much as we feel things are supposed to be done in a certain way, it is still the party that holds the greater bargaining power and calls the shots at the end of the day, be it model or photographer.

    Are you a desperate photographer looking for model to shoot or a desperate model looking for photographer to get shot? The choice is yours to either place yourself in a desperate situation or to look for someone who is more desperate.

  13. #353

    Default Re: Why so called "models" with little or less experience can demand paid shoots?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yezrah View Post
    It is a market of willing buyers and willing sellers. Market forces of demand and supply determine the trend. Much as we feel things are supposed to be done in a certain way, it is still the party that holds the greater bargaining power and calls the shots at the end of the day, be it model or photographer.

    Are you a desperate photographer looking for model to shoot or a desperate model looking for photographer to get shot? The choice is yours to either place yourself in a desperate situation or to look for someone who is more desperate.
    think you going to upset some of those photographers by labelling them desperate

  14. #354
    Moderator catchlights's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why so called "models" with little or less experience can demand paid shoots?

    Quote Originally Posted by wakaowalao View Post
    Mmm, that's somehow summarize what the rest (who are looking for FREE stuff) are thinking.

    Maybe we should also hold up high as a non-profit community to promote "photography", thus expecting experienced models to offer FREE service for us. We will then PAY the most charismatic or handsome newbie photographer for him to learn from the pro models?

    Win-win situation too.
    why don't you propose all newbie model must do "NS", offer TFCD for six months, must go thru at least 20 TFCD sessions, certified by senior models, than can graduate as "qualified model", start charging money??
    Shoot to Live, Live to Shoot
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  15. #355
    Moderator catchlights's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why so called "models" with little or less experience can demand paid shoots?

    Quote Originally Posted by night86mare View Post
    the thing is

    these models are not looking to do it long term

    they just want money to buy their handbags, clothing and jewellery. no money, tfcd.. they not interested in the photographs actually, they only want the money
    They want money, also want photos at the same time.

    you forgot liao meh??
    Shoot to Live, Live to Shoot
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  16. #356

    Default Re: Why so called "models" with little or less experience can demand paid shoots?

    Quote Originally Posted by catchlights View Post
    They want money, also want photos at the same time.

    you forgot liao meh??
    you tell them reduce rate if have photographs

    you see what they choose

    photographs still less than them to money.. reason why they want is to show on their personal site.. then can also use to get more people to shoot them.. therefore more money!

    even xmm can prioritise ok!

  17. #357
    Moderator catchlights's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why so called "models" with little or less experience can demand paid shoots?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yezrah View Post
    It is a market of willing buyers and willing sellers. Market forces of demand and supply determine the trend. Much as we feel things are supposed to be done in a certain way, it is still the party that holds the greater bargaining power and calls the shots at the end of the day, be it model or photographer.

    Are you a desperate photographer looking for model to shoot or a desperate model looking for photographer to get shot? The choice is yours to either place yourself in a desperate situation or to look for someone who is more desperate.
    hmmmm.....

    so next time some one want to get better response in Services Offered / Wanted, must include the word "desperate" in the thread title??
    Shoot to Live, Live to Shoot
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  18. #358

    Default Re: Why so called "models" with little or less experience can demand paid shoots?

    Quote Originally Posted by madmacs View Post
    think you going to upset some of those photographers by labelling them desperate
    Please don't quote me in context. It happened before and was given demerit points for my words which I have no intention to mean it this way or that way. But thanks for the kind advice. In a public forum, different people always have different interpretations of what were being said, though everyone is reading the same words.

  19. #359
    Senior Member Leong23's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why so called "models" with little or less experience can demand paid shoots?

    GWC Photography
    XMM Modelling

    OR

    GWC XMM
    XMM MONEY


  20. #360

    Default Re: Why so called "models" with little or less experience can demand paid shoots?

    GWC and many 'censored' XMMs

    XMMs with such knowledge GWCs and 'censored' for their lurve of $$$

    XMMs togs because they can be baaay-bied, pampered, get their all-consuming and $$$ AND get FOC photos. Ever heard of the phrase, "I'll get him eating out of my hand!"?

    Oh, some XMM or even so-called TFCD XMMs also demand FOC MUAs, FOC private transport, FOC food and drinks and you can be sure these don't include hawker center or kopitiam hor! And don't fourgett the 888 DI photos you MUUUUST gif dem!

    Alamak! This is beginning to sound like the typical and entirely un-original PRC female seductions and ploys! Sekali got people posting about XMM sex and marniiiie scandals on CS! LOL!
    Last edited by Dream Merchant; 19th April 2008 at 03:17 AM.

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