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Thread: Why so called "models" with little or less experience can demand paid shoots?

  1. #241

    Default Re: Why so called "models" with little or less experience can demand paid shoots?

    Quote Originally Posted by fotoudavid View Post
    what's this thread abt? condemn young models? or photographers?

    why condemn???
    I blame the wannabes photogrpahers, the newbies and the GWC creating an unrealistic enviroment and expectations.

    I also blame vanity. However, I do trade in vanity, so I better not.
    deadpoet
    my portfolio

  2. #242

    Default Re: Why so called "models" with little or less experience can demand paid shoots?

    Quote Originally Posted by Deadpoet View Post
    come on, are you saying, a lousy picture has no value? Any picture has its value.
    ...to the photographer, maybe...

    to others, it is another case altogether. if you say that you can find value in an absolutely horrible photo, that you claim "should be trashed", then i would be very surprised indeed

    the assumption of the concept of intellectual property being significant, after all, has to have the qualification that the intellectual property has value to all parties in the first place.

    if i give you a rotten banana skin, then you would be better off if i had not given you anything at all in the first place.

    Quote Originally Posted by ortega View Post
    and the pictures are nicer also

    eg, the image above with the XMM on the ground, if it were an auntie with more dramatic lighting
    alamak, translating your demand into everyone else's demand !

  3. #243
    vince123123
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    Default Re: Why so called "models" with little or less experience can demand paid shoots?

    You're confusing quantum. Both DP and I are saying that there is value - how much value would then be a question of fact for assessment. You are saying that there is no value, ie zero value, zilch, totally devoid of value, which we are challenging.

    And contrary to your assertion, Intellectual Property does not need to have value before it is considered intellectual property under Singapore laws - you may need to review existing legislation and case law in order to form a more educated assertion.


    Quote Originally Posted by night86mare View Post
    ...to the photographer, maybe...

    to others, it is another case altogether. if you say that you can find value in an absolutely horrible photo, that you claim "should be trashed", then i would be very surprised indeed

    the assumption of the concept of intellectual property being significant, after all, has to have the qualification that the intellectual property has value to all parties in the first place.

    if i give you a rotten banana skin, then you would be better off if i had not given you anything at all in the first place.


    alamak, translating your demand into everyone else's demand !
    Last edited by vince123123; 16th April 2008 at 10:58 AM.

  4. #244

    Default Re: Why so called "models" with little or less experience can demand paid shoots?

    Quote Originally Posted by vince123123 View Post
    You're confusing quantum. Both DP and I are saying that there is value - how much value would then be a question of fact for assessment. You are saying that there is no value, ie zero value, zilch, totally devoid of value, which we are challenging.

    And contrary to your assertion, Intellectual Property does not need to have value before it is considered intellectual property under Singapore laws - you may need to review existing legislation and case law in order to form a more educated assertion.
    firstly, i would like to say that "you're confusing quantum" seems to be a very poorly structured sentence, i had to think for 2 moments to actually get what you meant. that aside:

    wrong again, you miss the point entirely. i claim that there exists cases whereby the value assigned can be zero, or even negative. whether it is accurately assessed by giver and receiver, is another question altogether.

    for example, model a receives rotten banana skin photo from photographer b, being a newcomer she has zero idea that the photo makes her look like a 80 year old mountain troll

    she posts it up on her website, and all the people who wanted to shoot her melt away like ice cream in the burning sun; do you not agree that in such a case she would be better off without your so-called intellectual property? how has she benefitted from the photograph, and how has the photographer lost from his giving of the photograph? in your oh-so-favourite equitable exchanges, should the photographer then pay her money for loss of income, if she chooses to sue (also another of your favourite suggestions to many members here)?

    there are cases like this that exist, whether you choose to admit reality or assign it arbitrary values, would probably reflect on your sense of realism.

  5. #245
    Senior Member Sion's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why so called "models" with little or less experience can demand paid shoots?

    Quote Originally Posted by fotoudavid View Post
    what's this thread abt? condemn young models? or photographers?

    why condemn???
    Condemnation is our favorite national photographic pastime.

    By condemning someone you'll move up higher a notch or two.

  6. #246

    Default Re: Why so called "models" with little or less experience can demand paid shoots?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sion View Post
    Condemnation is our favorite national photographic pastime.

    By condemning someone you'll move up higher a notch or two.


    especially when you do not post any pictures of your own.. then you can condemn all you want!

  7. #247

    Default Re: Why so called "models" with little or less experience can demand paid shoots?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sion View Post
    Condemnation is our favorite national photographic pastime.

    By condemning someone you'll move up higher a notch or two.
    Quote Originally Posted by night86mare View Post


    especially when you do not post any pictures of your own.. then you can condemn all you want!
    anyone starting a condemning ranking any time soon?

  8. #248
    Senior Member Sion's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why so called "models" with little or less experience can demand paid shoots?

    Quote Originally Posted by night86mare View Post


    especially when you do not post any pictures of your own.. then you can condemn all you want!
    That's rule No.1:

    "When you want to condemn someone, you make sure you don't have anything for him to condemn you."

    Remember the famous Hokkien saying:

    "Hide your balls so that you can grab someone's balls."

  9. #249

    Default Re: Why so called "models" with little or less experience can demand paid shoots?

    If these girls in CS are called models...then wat r the real models out there called...do we give a promotion to the models as Supermodels and the Supersmodels to Ultra Models?

    Many no longer know the definition of the word Model...thats why its often being misused where the girls shud have use "Talents" instead.
    Talents definitely sounds better than Wannabes...but Models? Are you up to it? are u there yet?

    There are people willing to pay for shoots...they haf the money they haf the time... if both side are willing...its a trade
    This works the same way as someone buy chicken rice or even a man paying a woman to solicit sexual service

    If u feel that if the goods are inferior...or the person trade is only benefits one side only...i dun think anyone in the right state of mind would be forking out money for it. I feel that these girls are not worth paying for as a model...but if someone is still willing to pay...they shud be paying these talents nominal fees.


    Look at wat the world is coming to...where the subject is getting paid to be photographed and yet can demand the raw images or even the edited photos
    shouldn't it be

    1) Photographer pays and provide MUA to Subject...Subject take only money and work diligently. Fullstop.
    2) Subject Pays and Provide MUA Photographer...Photographer take money and work diligently to produce quality work.

    Right now its

    1) Photographer pays and provide MUA to Subject...and Subject gets money, is inexperienced and demands processed photos
    2) Photographer does TFCD...hafta provide make up artist, directions to inexperience talents and process photos and give them the bulk of it


    Where is the pride of the photographer?
    Do we have to stoop so low to provide this kinda service with our expensive equipments?
    Is it justifiable to yourself if during the shoot ur equipment goes kapoot...will the TFCD Talent bear part of the cost of the repair

    I think its up to individual to think abt this and see how much pride u put into ur own skill, equipments and ur ownself

  10. #250
    Moderator ortega's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why so called "models" with little or less experience can demand paid shoots?

    Quote Originally Posted by contaxable View Post
    How come a xmm thread became a lao auntie thread.
    moderator mode off

    this only shows how old this topic is, all the XMM become lao auntie already

  11. #251
    Moderator ortega's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why so called "models" with little or less experience can demand paid shoots?

    Quote Originally Posted by night86mare View Post
    alamak, translating your demand into everyone else's demand !
    just showing them the light


    ok moderator mode on again

  12. #252

    Default Re: Why so called "models" with little or less experience can demand paid shoots?

    Quote Originally Posted by ortega View Post
    moderator mode off

    this only shows how old this topic is, all the XMM become lao auntie already
    flickr me here ;)

  13. #253

    Default Re: Why so called "models" with little or less experience can demand paid shoots?

    we have to agree

    just look at the transition



    2007 > 2001
















    p.s. it's plastic surgery

  14. #254

    Default Re: Why so called "models" with little or less experience can demand paid shoots?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sion View Post
    Condemnation is our favorite national photographic pastime.

    By condemning someone you'll move up higher a notch or two.
    not to mention the entertainment value derived from reading all these condemnation and debates going on

  15. #255
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    Default Re: Why so called "models" with little or less experience can demand paid shoots?

    Quote Originally Posted by ortega View Post
    and the pictures are nicer also

    eg, the image above with the XMM on the ground, if it were an auntie with more dramatic lighting
    depends on the photographer's skill and vision as well, lest one makes the picture look like crime investigation scene.

  16. #256

    Default Re: Why so called "models" with little or less experience can demand paid shoots?

    Quote Originally Posted by eikin View Post
    depends on the photographer's skill and vision as well, lest one makes the picture look like crime investigation scene.
    with blood splatter and all???

  17. #257
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    Default Re: Why so called "models" with little or less experience can demand paid shoots?

    Quote Originally Posted by madmacs View Post
    with blood splatter and all???
    blood or not, or whether it's due to haemorrhage from the nose or not, if one is to take photography as an art, or even a profession, then one needs to know what one wants to achieve. if it's just another pastime to kill some time off the weekend, it'll show on the pictures.

  18. #258

    Default Re: Why so called "models" with little or less experience can demand paid shoots?

    Quote Originally Posted by eikin View Post
    blood or not, or whether it's due to haemorrhage from the nose or not, if one is to take photography as an art, or even a profession, then one needs to know what one wants to achieve. if it's just another pastime to kill some time off the weekend, it'll show on the pictures.
    i suggest with beer splatter



    this one, obviously pastime

  19. #259

    Default Re: Why so called "models" with little or less experience can demand paid shoots?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sion View Post
    That's rule No.1:

    "When you want to condemn someone, you make sure you don't have anything for him to condemn you."

    Remember the famous Hokkien saying:

    "Hide your balls so that you can grab someone's balls."
    really, the hokkien saying i know says:

    "inflate balloon and use them as balls to grab other people's balls"

    the hokkien language is being massacred by me

  20. #260
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    Default Re: Why so called "models" with little or less experience can demand paid shoots?

    Quote Originally Posted by night86mare View Post
    i suggest with beer splatter



    this one, obviously pastime
    yah the photography part is really just a pastime ... but this is cool

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