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Thread: Should the Judge be Strict to Juvenile delinguent

  1. #41

    Default Re: Should the Judge be Strict to Juvenile delinguent

    4) The duty of the parents is to look after the children, for every year that the kid is sentenced to in Juvenile Prison make sure the adult gets 1mth in prison as well."
    Hey, this is going to reduce birth rate in SG.

  2. #42

    Default Re: Should the Judge be Strict to Juvenile delinguent

    Quote Originally Posted by Del_CtrlnoAlt View Post
    Yappy, you are borderline trolling...
    Sorry for my poor English... I went thru the dictionary, which meaning are you referring to?

  3. #43
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    Default Re: Should the Judge be Strict to Juvenile delinguent

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll

    6. Trolls - We will not tolerate anyone antagonising other forum members by posting potentially inflammatory messages. See Rule #1. Repeated abuse will result in banishment. Do not participate in a thread merely to criticize or mock the equipment choice of other forum members in the thread. Examples include Nikon shooters posting in Canon topic areas, Canon shooters posting in Nikon topic areas and anyone posting in any topic area where the result can serve only to insult and inflame regular participants in that topic area.

    just incase u wanna know the consequences.
    Logging Off. "You have 2,631 messages stored, of a total 400 allowed." don't PM me.

  4. #44

    Default Re: Should the Judge be Strict to Juvenile delinquent

    Quote Originally Posted by waileong View Post
    I await the parent who can rebuke (emphasis added) the judge simply by saying that this is a courtroom, not a pulpit, and they are judges who are to pass verdicts and sentences, not give lectures and sermons.
    the parent who does that is ill-advised, at best, and can be charged with contempt of court. accord the judge her proper respect in court, and if there is any grievance with the judge's conduct or ruling, take it to the appellate court.
    Last edited by zaren; 15th April 2008 at 12:23 PM.

  5. #45
    Moderator ortega's Avatar
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    Default Re: Should the Judge be Strict to Juvenile delinguent

    Quote Originally Posted by Yappy View Post
    Do we need rules and regulations to run a place?
    yes we do, and they can be found here

    http://www.clubsnap.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63921

    this thread is dangerously close to being locked and/or infractions given, please behave

  6. #46

    Default Re: Should the Judge be Strict to Juvenile delinguent

    Quote Originally Posted by sbs99 View Post
    Today's kids do not know the meaning of respect. They just demand it on a platter.
    it's this over-inflated sense of self-entitlement

    a la

    the world is our oyster, we will just rip the pearls out of it

    on another note, it is not just kids, if you haven't noticed a lot of adults also do the same thing, despite having no credibility or credentials, they like to dish out misleading advice with the promise that it will be useful. and then they act pompously, like the world owes them a living; fact is, the world might even be better off without the existence of such people

    if anything, i would think that at the very least, a judge is not selected by picking a lottery number or playing bingo - there is much more credibility to what he or she has to say, when it comes to morality; after all, the legal system was founded based on morality, among other things (like ensuring equal rights).. and if our ultimate executors of the law are told to shut up on moral values or behaviour of someone being presented in court.. then i would think it is a sad day indeed.
    Last edited by night86mare; 15th April 2008 at 09:05 PM.

  7. #47

    Default Re: Should the Judge be Strict to Juvenile delinguent

    Quote Originally Posted by ortega View Post
    yes we do, and they can be found here

    http://www.clubsnap.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63921

    this thread is dangerously close to being locked and/or infractions given, please behave
    Quote Originally Posted by night86mare View Post
    it's this over-inflated sense of self-entitlement

    a la

    the world is our oyster, we will just rip the pearls out of it

    on another note, it is not just kids, if you haven't noticed a lot of adults also do the same thing, despite having no credibility or credentials, they like to dish out misleading advice with the promise that it will be useful. and then they act pompously, like the world owes them a living; fact is, the world might even be better off without the existence of such people

    if anything, i would think that at the very least, a judge is not selected by picking a lottery number or playing bingo - there is much more credibility to what he or she has to say, when it comes to morality; after all, the legal system was founded based on morality, among other things (like ensuring equal rights).. and if our ultimate executors of the law are told to shut up on moral values or behaviour of someone being presented in court.. then i would think it is a sad day indeed.
    It is obvious that we need rules and regulations to run a place so we select individuals to be moderater as like Clubsnap does. You allow them to make judgement!

    The judges are selected as just quoted by night86mare, don't you think you we should respect the judges' decision and action. They are all done in good faith!

    We are looking at the Singapore's judicial system and it is not fair that we make sweeping statements to critise them in general. I stand up for the Singapore judicial system and on all the decisions and actions made by our judges.

    Also we are looking at human being and not 'GOD' and if God can help then we do not need the judges.

    The orignal intention of the thread is to look at the understanding of the general public on juvenile delinguent. But sad to say some took the opportunity the critise the judicial system. If that is the case, we should close the thread.

    I started the thread and was told to behave. I have the privilege to close it but I leave it to the moderator to decide.

  8. #48
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    Default Re: Should the Judge be Strict to Juvenile delinguent

    Quote Originally Posted by night86mare View Post
    it's this over-inflated sense of self-entitlement

    a la

    the world is our oyster, we will just rip the pearls out of it

    on another note, it is not just kids, if you haven't noticed a lot of adults also do the same thing, despite having no credibility or credentials, they like to dish out misleading advice with the promise that it will be useful. and then they act pompously, like the world owes them a living; fact is, the world might even be better off without the existence of such people
    Well, society requires law and order, else there would be chaos. You can certainly have dreams and can go about to reach your dreams, but do it at the expense of others? I don't think so. The process is just as important as the ends. The ends do not justify the means, especially if it means someone else will get hurt.

    Although you do have to be responsible for your actions, there are other factors involved like environment, social, cultural, etc, which affects how a so-called "social delinquent" behaved. When making judgement, it certainly is necessary to take these factors into account.

    It would certainly be easy to sit behind a computer and make general irresponsible comments about everything. Its not so simple when you are sitting there on the judgement seat weighing the consequences of your decision on the person involved and on society.

    We all know 2 and 3 yr old pitch-fit and throw tantrums to get what they want. Problem with some people is that they never grow out of it....
    "Photography is an austere and blazing poetry of the real" -Ansel Adams

  9. #49
    Moderator ortega's Avatar
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    Default Re: Should the Judge be Strict to Juvenile delinguent

    just as long as the discussion stays healthy, i believe that the thread can cont.

  10. #50

    Default Re: Should the Judge be Strict to Juvenile delinguent

    Quote Originally Posted by Yappy View Post

    The orignal intention of the thread is to look at the understanding of the general public on juvenile delinguent. But sad to say some took the opportunity the critise the judicial system. If that is the case, we should close the thread.
    back to the topic then; you ask if the judge should be strict to juvenile delinquents - i was a little puzzled as to what you meant;

    are you talking about their judgements, or are you talking about the chiding in court?

    for the second, i have already mentioned that they would actually have every right to; just like the moderators' primary function is to lock threads and award red cards, etc.. but they are also more than entitled to pass comments on any member's behaviour here.. and until their own actions have come to pass such that they seem to lack the moral authority (not seen yet in clubsnap), then there should not be any issue.

    for the first, then based on most cases, it does seem as if juvenile delinquants are usually given the shorter end of the stick, which is also justifiable especially if it is their first time - like it or not, you couldn't expect a 16 year old to be as mature as a full-fledged adult, and therefore, some form of "responsibility for his actions" is lessened, though i am not sure where it flows to.

    certainly, age has no direct link with maturity - we only need to look around us to see many fine examples, even in this thread alone.. but i think in most cases, the law has to give the benefit of the doubt unless they have sufficient evidence to think otherwise.

  11. #51

    Default Re: Should the Judge be Strict to Juvenile delinguent

    Sorry for not making myself clear!

    Just to share, I have the privilege to attend some of the hearings, some of the juveniles went in slipper, multi-coloured hair and when the judge spoke to them, they showed no respect.

    And also when they are brought to face the judge, they would have committed a string of other serious offences including and most often beyond parental control.

    Just an illustration, for a shoplifting offence, an adult can be brought to the court the next day whereas for a juvenile, the police, the school, MOE HQ, the parents, self-help group, MCYS and the police will be involved. Most of the time, they do not go to the court but they are often given warning by the authority.

  12. #52

    Default Re: Should the Judge be Strict to Juvenile delinguent

    Quote Originally Posted by jkaiser View Post
    If i am taking photo of that middle finger kid, just develop the photo and give to the school. See how long the boy can laugh...

    Back to the judge scolding teenager issue, I think it is a good touch. One of the replies here said that if u need someone to scold your kid for you, you have failed as a parent. Alot of these kids are supposed to be Beyond Parental Control (BPC) cases where the parents declare to the juvenile court that "hey i can't handle my kid, pls help me" It is a failure of the parents, but more importantly a sign that the parents still care enough to want someone to help them with their kid (the converse of parents simply using BPC as the easy way out is of course possible, but let's not go to that now)

    So alot of parents dun wanna use BPC, cos they fail to recognise the impact of their kid's wrongdoings "let him be lah, he will mature soon" Either that or they paiseh to use BPC cos it will show that they are lousier parents. End of day kena 01 x good one from judge, see which one more paiseh
    Just to add. Often parents regret after the reporting BPC. They felt that they had done a disfavour to their children forgetting that they were the one who needs help because they could control their children.

    When the parents, the first time, made the application, they would be advised by the authority to reconsider and find other means to help the child.

    For your info, the Family Court, at Havelock Road, will hear such application on every Friday's afternoon.

  13. #53
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    Default Re: Should the Judge be Strict to Juvenile delinguent

    Quote Originally Posted by Yappy View Post
    Sorry for not making myself clear!

    Just to share, I have the privilege to attend some of the hearings, some of the juveniles went in slipper, multi-coloured hair and when the judge spoke to them, they showed no respect.

    And also when they are brought to face the judge, they would have committed a string of other serious offences including and most often beyond parental control.

    Just an illustration, for a shoplifting offence, an adult can be brought to the court the next day whereas for a juvenile, the police, the school, MOE HQ, the parents, self-help group, MCYS and the police will be involved. Most of the time, they do not go to the court but they are often given warning by the authority.
    Seriously, to these kids? Warning?

    Send them straight away to RTC.

    But my hope of closing Boys/Girls Town and renaming RTC as Juvenile Maximum Security Reformative Prison as well as lowering the age eligiblity (currently at 21) for any court to sentence a Juvenile to death/life imprisonment due to manslaughter/murder still remains high.

    Lets hope it just happens.

  14. #54
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    Default Re: Should the Judge be Strict to Juvenile delinguent

    I'm sad to read about this case. I wonder what went wrong in bringing up this kid until he's "beyond parental control".

    I, like many others came from a dysfunctional family, ie poor, 5 kids, broken marriage parents but able to distinguish between right and wrong. Values instil then by my mum really helps.

    Having my own kids now in primary school, they definitely have a better life than me, so are many children nowadays. I still wonder why there are many of such kids nowadays. Personally, I've yet to cane my children for their misdeeds but use the western approach of communication. That works, but not to the extent of caning which I and my bros got when we were young . I myself won't know if it works, time will tell.

    Coming from my era in the 70's many would turn wayward due to large families with low income parents, non-importance to formal education and etc..

    Now in the 21st century, where both parents are working and many will stop at 2, what's the beef with these people? I'd say the boy deserve what he got. Send him to RTC.
    Last edited by greenieadi; 17th April 2008 at 03:03 PM.

  15. #55
    Senior Member Leong23's Avatar
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    Default Re: Should the Judge be Strict to Juvenile delinguent

    In the first place, the parent should be strict to their kids, if the kids really went out of control, personally felt that the judge have every rights to be strict.

    In my days, canning by teachers and parents was a very common thing, although i disagree that we should go back to that way, but some basic discipline should be drilled into them.

    Maybe i'm from the old school..... if they CIM, sent them to RTC.

  16. #56

    Default Re: Should the Judge be Strict to Juvenile delinguent

    Quote Originally Posted by Leong23 View Post
    In the first place, the parent should be strict to their kids, if the kids really went out of control, personally felt that the judge have every rights to be strict.

    In my days, canning by teachers and parents was a very common thing, although i disagree that we should go back to that way, but some basic discipline should be drilled into them.

    Maybe i'm from the old school..... if they CIM, sent them to RTC.
    U are right. Parents are the main culprits as the kid will emulate the adult and parents are the main figure. If the parents smoked(my apology to smokers), the kid will pick up the habit too!

    I had known of friends who gave up good paying job and smoking for the sake of their children. Will clubsnap's smokers do likewise?
    Just give-up smoking!

  17. #57
    Moderator ortega's Avatar
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    Default Re: Should the Judge be Strict to Juvenile delinguent

    Quote Originally Posted by Yappy View Post
    U are right. Parents are the main culprits as the kid will emulate the adult and parents are the main figure. If the parents smoked(my apology to smokers), the kid will pick up the habit too!
    my parents don't smoke, but i do
    my parents drink alcohol but i don't

    so your theory is flawed

    it should be "would likely" instead of "will"

  18. #58

    Default Re: Should the Judge be Strict to Juvenile delinguent

    Quote Originally Posted by ortega View Post
    my parents don't smoke, but i do
    my parents drink alcohol but i don't

    so your theory is flawed

    it should be "would likely" instead of "will"
    U are right and I agreed with you. There is always a % who would not or may not fall within the window.

    I was once a smoker but not now. Still feel good to have the cigarette between the fingers but manage to ...

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