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Thread: Isnt prosumer better?

  1. #1

    Default Isnt prosumer better?

    When using prosumer camera, the EVF will show me the preview of what i will be getting.

    But when i use most of the dslr, although it is TTL, there's no way i can preview it (except canon).
    hence it means that wat i see thru the lens might not be wat i get.
    For eg, i set WB but i cannot see how it will look like until i take a shot.
    Same for exposure, if i do spot metering, i duno whether i am aming at a right spot to get the desired exposure or not.

    So why dslr is designed such a way that we have to see through the lens?
    Wats the purpose?

    And if i want to take weird angle how?
    How to know whether my camera is aiming the subject?
    D7100,SB910,17-50/2.8OS,105/2.8VR,85/1.8D,2xE-M1,O60/2.8,12-40/2.8,35-100/2.8,14-42,LX100

  2. #2

    Default Re: Isnt prosumer better?

    Ehhs.. Back in the days of film, you cant even confirm if you focus properly..

    If you know how to use a DSLR very well, then the first time you press the shutter should be the only time you need to press it to get the scene you want...

    DSLRS are designd that you have to look thru the lens because.. Well.. It's in the name. single lens reflex.
    You can either use live view or a angle finder, for e.g. http://www.amazon.com/Canon-Angle-Fi.../dp/B00004WCEY
    Meow!

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Isnt prosumer better?

    Quote Originally Posted by sin77 View Post
    When using prosumer camera, the EVF will show me the preview of what i will be getting.

    But when i use most of the dslr, although it is TTL, there's no way i can preview it (except canon).
    hence it means that wat i see thru the lens might not be wat i get.
    For eg, i set WB but i cannot see how it will look like until i take a shot.
    Same for exposure, if i do spot metering, i duno whether i am aming at a right spot to get the desired exposure or not.

    So why dslr is designed such a way that we have to see through the lens?
    Wats the purpose?

    And if i want to take weird angle how?
    How to know whether my camera is aiming the subject?

    I am a fan of prosumer cameras. No doubt prosumers offers many attraction over a dSLR, personally if you want to compare image quality and speed, dSLR still has a edge over prosumers.

    Having to be able to preview is nice, but if u have reached the stage that you are familiar with your equipment, you won't even wanna waste your time previewing (well, maybe the 1st or 2nd shot you wanna check).

    One particular thing about dSLR vs prosumer cameras is the shutter lag. For dSLR when viewing through the viewfinder, I know what I snap is the exact frame i want at that moment in time. For prosumers, sometimes what you get is the frame a couple of milliseconds later. This is more evident when you are in low light situation. Think of it in a "blowing birthday cake candle" situation and you'll know what i mean.

    Why dSLR has to look through the lens? dSLR can change lenses. If don't see through the lens, where you think is better? I don't know, maybe you can think of some better methods.

    As with odd angles, some dSLRs now have those tiltable live preview screens. If not you can always buy some angle finder.
    Last edited by Fotophilic; 6th April 2008 at 09:12 AM.
    cameras are not made of tofu

  4. #4
    Senior Member dorts's Avatar
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    Default Re: Isnt prosumer better?

    The VF is just for composition purposes I feel. The exposure info in the viewfinder is your preview.

    If it really matters a lot, there is Live View now in DSLRs which gives you rather accurate preview of what the picture will turn out like. There is even a live histogram.

  5. #5
    Senior Member giantcanopy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Isnt prosumer better?

    Quote Originally Posted by sin77 View Post
    So why dslr is designed such a way that we have to see through the lens?
    Wats the purpose?
    It was a design based on the SLR design of the olden days with the sensor replacing film. It is one design that permits direct viewing of the image in the same optical path as that of what the film captures.

    Of course there are other film camera designs that subsequently have their digital versions such as the rangefinder for example. Each design having their strengths and weaknesses.

    Of course the current digital SLRs are starting to incorporate functions that do not restrict you to the usual viewfinder

    Ryan

  6. #6

    Default Re: Isnt prosumer better?

    I am still a prosumer user (s3is), then bought a dslr afterwards. They have their pros and cons. Based one personal experience

    1. prosumer is small. For family outing or just about any kodak moments.
    2. dSLR is big and bulky. I use this for special/important events where all I need to carry is my cam gears.

    If the dSLR is set to other than "(M)anual" mode, the cam itselfs sets the optimal exposure and shutter speed just like any other prosumer cam, but minus the EVF.

    They have the pros and cons w/c people can list down (long list too). It depends on what you need, what you shoot, and what you can afford.

  7. #7
    Member sunboi80's Avatar
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    Default Re: Isnt prosumer better?

    Impt pts:

    DSLR- can change lens to get that special effect, fisheye, wide angle, Defocus control(bokeh) blah blah blah...

    Prosumer- fixed lens, if u wan to do some thing special, which ur fix lens cannot provide u gotta buy those attachments (which are in most cases limited)

    my analogy.. if DSLR u buying a Lego set, in prosumer u are buying just a toy...

    ;) L-plate Photog: I come, I see, I shoot

  8. #8

    Default Re: Isnt prosumer better?

    Quote Originally Posted by sunboi80 View Post
    Impt pts:

    DSLR- can change lens to get that special effect, fisheye, wide angle, Defocus control(bokeh) blah blah blah...

    Prosumer- fixed lens, if u wan to do some thing special, which ur fix lens cannot provide u gotta buy those attachments (which are in most cases limited)

    my analogy.. if DSLR u buying a Lego set, in prosumer u are buying just a toy...

    your analogy quite cute



    All in all i think i will still keep my FZ18 for streets.
    Maybe like events and shooting landscapres and portraits then i will use my nikkon.
    D7100,SB910,17-50/2.8OS,105/2.8VR,85/1.8D,2xE-M1,O60/2.8,12-40/2.8,35-100/2.8,14-42,LX100

  9. #9

    Default Re: Isnt prosumer better?

    I own a prosumer for 4 yr before recently where I got my first DSLR and the main reason for this is the ability of DSLR to change different lens for the wide range of photography interest I am starting to look into.
    Nikon D90

  10. #10

    Default Re: Isnt prosumer better?

    Quote Originally Posted by bomby929 View Post
    I own a prosumer for 4 yr before recently where I got my first DSLR and the main reason for this is the ability of DSLR to change different lens for the wide range of photography interest I am starting to look into.
    wats the difference?
    My lumix can do macro and tele (18x) as well.
    Thanks.
    D7100,SB910,17-50/2.8OS,105/2.8VR,85/1.8D,2xE-M1,O60/2.8,12-40/2.8,35-100/2.8,14-42,LX100

  11. #11
    Member lennyl's Avatar
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    Default Re: Isnt prosumer better?

    It all depends on the user. The best camera for you is the one you can use the best. Meaning, it has to be one you will actually bring along and use, and know how to use effectively.

    DSLR gives you flexibility of choosing the best lens for the situation, compared to one size fits all which always involve some compromise. Larger image sensor gives you shallow DOF (which may or may not be what you want, depending on what you're taking photos of, and the effect you're after). Larger sensors also generally give better image quality, more detail and lower noise.

    Finally, don't forget - with a DSLR and a few pro lenses, there is no need to sign up for gym membership (not that you have any time or money left for gym )

    A prosumer camera offers smaller size and the convenience that comes with it. Your spouse will not make comments like "What, you bought another lens? How many stupid lens do you need?" Small sensor means huge DOF which can be an advantage sometimes for macros, group photos. Candid photos more likely because people generally don't like huge lenses poking them in the face. LCD framing allows you to take photos from unusual angles. It is nice to be able to take short video clips sometimes.

    I have both, but I use my DSLR most of the time.
    Last edited by lennyl; 6th April 2008 at 04:29 PM.

  12. #12
    Member lennyl's Avatar
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    Default Re: Isnt prosumer better?

    Quote Originally Posted by sin77 View Post
    wats the difference?
    My lumix can do macro and tele (18x) as well.
    Thanks.
    Your Lumix (according to google) has a 28mm-504mm
    equivalent lens. I don't know how good is the macro.

    With a DSLR I can focus at 1x or greater magnification (up
    to 5x with specialized lenses). With a 300mm lens (affordable)
    I get 480mm equivalent FOV. 600mm lenses are available but
    not affordable, there's even a 300mm-800mm Sigma and you
    can attach a 2x teleconverter to that. I've seen bird photos
    taken with that combo by a Filipino - incredible!

    I guess what I'm trying to say is that a DSLR can do all of
    those things better with the right lens. Not everyone needs
    what a DSLR can do - but I got to admit, it is fun

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Isnt prosumer better?

    Quote Originally Posted by sin77 View Post
    When using prosumer camera, the EVF will show me the preview of what i will be getting.

    But when i use most of the dslr, although it is TTL, there's no way i can preview it (except canon).
    hence it means that wat i see thru the lens might not be wat i get.
    For eg, i set WB but i cannot see how it will look like until i take a shot.
    Same for exposure, if i do spot metering, i duno whether i am aming at a right spot to get the desired exposure or not.

    So why dslr is designed such a way that we have to see through the lens?
    Wats the purpose?

    And if i want to take weird angle how?
    How to know whether my camera is aiming the subject?
    You have essentially listed all the advantages a prosumer has over a dSLR.

    The lines between the two are blurring quite fast actually, and so are the prices. It won't be long before we have cameras that focus as fast, or faster than dSLRs, with full-frame image sensors equaling dSLR sensor image quality, and true interchangeable lenses, with EVF and TTL options as well as swivel/tilt screens, live preview/WB adjustment, etc.

    The only real limitation (for now, i think) is that they can't build it at a cost and size that will sell well. But they will, eventually.

  14. #14
    Senior Member Anson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Isnt prosumer better?

    I agree that the main problem of a lot of prosumer camera is the noise (in low light) & shutter lag issue.

    Personally I am using a FZ50 (prosumer), it offer a lot of flexible in my shot. Couple with a good Lecia Lens (35~420mm) & handy controls, it is hard for a layman diff it from a normal dSLR.

    It had allow me to add an external TTL Flash, Wide Angle Lens, Filters, etc. The manual zoom & focus ring is much better than the typical PnS & smaller prosumer cameras in the market.

    However even with the slight bigger sensor (compared to most PnS), and low shutter lag it is still hard to compete with a dSLR under low-light conditions.

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Isnt prosumer better?

    Quote Originally Posted by sin77 View Post
    When using prosumer camera, the EVF will show me the preview of what i will be getting.

    But when i use most of the dslr, although it is TTL, there's no way i can preview it (except canon).
    hence it means that wat i see thru the lens might not be wat i get.
    For eg, i set WB but i cannot see how it will look like until i take a shot.
    Same for exposure, if i do spot metering, i duno whether i am aming at a right spot to get the desired exposure or not.

    So why dslr is designed such a way that we have to see through the lens?
    Wats the purpose?

    And if i want to take weird angle how?
    How to know whether my camera is aiming the subject?

    i think your prosumer can be used for another 10-20 years!! its all you need
    thats why you dont need a dslr, plus the companies have to thank you for supporting the prosumer market
    chezburgr i can haz?

  16. #16

    Default Re: Isnt prosumer better?

    Quote Originally Posted by sin77 View Post
    wats the difference?
    My lumix can do macro and tele (18x) as well.
    Thanks.

    Googled and saw the Lumix specs.. diffference
    1) Lumix f2.8 - F4.0 where as SLR Lens have constant f2.8 across the zoom range
    2) Widest is 28mm (35mm equiv).. where SLR I can get 15mm (35mm equiv) spec says f=4.6-82.8mm (35mm Equiv.: 28-504mm)
    3) Aperture Wide: F2.8 - F8.0 Tele:F4.2 - F8.0 -> Not sure if u can go f8.0 and beyond. SLR can go upto f32 for example.
    4) AF-Macro On/Off -> this is different from a specific Macro lens.
    5) Limit at 504mm.. where SLR no limit. Limit up to 600mm (900mm 35mm equiv and still can add teleconverter). but this depends on $$

    BTW 18X is not == to image u see can zoom 18X.. it is the longest focal distance / shortest.. in this case it is 504/28 = 18.

    Dun have the canera so cannot comment on the IQ.. though I would assume LEICA lens should be good.. but a zoom lens can never match the primes lens IQ. This is just on the lens only, have not even touch on body limitations.
    Nikon D90

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    Default Re: Isnt prosumer better?

    prosumer vs dslr..

    they are both good at what they are designed for.. dun think it's a good idea to "compare" them to see which one is better per se.. btw there are a few stickies in this forum that discusses the good and bad of the prosumer..

  18. #18

    Default Re: Isnt prosumer better?

    Quote Originally Posted by ssping83 View Post
    prosumer vs dslr..

    they are both good at what they are designed for.. dun think it's a good idea to "compare" them to see which one is better per se.. btw there are a few stickies in this forum that discusses the good and bad of the prosumer..
    I totally agree... and in the end.. both all can produce great pictures. It just a matter of whether u can leave with the -ve pt each type. For one.. I miss the ability to take movies if required.. and relatively less equipment to carry around... and most important of all $$$
    Nikon D90

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    Senior Member denniskee's Avatar
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    Default Re: Isnt prosumer better?

    1) it hell lot cheaper using ur fz18 with 28-504mm f2.8-4.0 than to get dslr with fast lens covering the same range.

    2) the focal length range offered in fz18 covers the most commonly used 28-200mm, and than it offer 300-504mm for you to use when visiting zoo or bird park. the amazing macro let you shot closeup of insects and flowers. with a wide-converter, like olympus 0.7 or 0.8 wcon, it lets you shoot buildings at close range.

    3) with closeup photo. fz18 offer more dov than dslr with lens of similar "focal lenght" with same aperture used.

    if you can max-out your fz18 and get amazing shots that you see here that other csers shot with dslr, why be bothered by what dslr offers? i have seen amazing shots by compact digital that can put most here in cs with their $$$ eqpt to shame. but all these are just my opinion.
    photography makes one sees things from all angles.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Isnt prosumer better?

    i somewat regretted also, unless anyone wants to buy over?
    If not i will just start exploring what dslr can offer
    D7100,SB910,17-50/2.8OS,105/2.8VR,85/1.8D,2xE-M1,O60/2.8,12-40/2.8,35-100/2.8,14-42,LX100

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