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Thread: Are people now don with flashy/branded stuff but financially empty?

  1. #41

    Default Re: Are people now don with flashy/branded stuff but financially empty?

    Quote Originally Posted by blive View Post

    Wow! throwing big words around...assuming everyone as deep as you huh? Where are you now on the hierachy of needs huh?
    the funniest part is that maslow does not really have anything to do with this, from what i understand

  2. #42

    Default Re: Are people now don with flashy/branded stuff but financially empty?

    Quote Originally Posted by blive View Post
    When did these topic become about judgement? I thought we were all supposed to comment about .....



    Wow! throwing big words around...assuming everyone as deep as you huh? Where are you now on the hierachy of needs huh?
    If it helps, I wasn't talking to you. And by the way, I have needs at almost every level everyday.

  3. #43

    Default Re: Are people now don with flashy/branded stuff but financially empty?

    Quote Originally Posted by night86mare View Post
    the funniest part is that maslow does not really have anything to do with this, from what i understand
    Yes, it does, it's really funny you don't see why.

  4. #44

    Default Re: Are people now don with flashy/branded stuff but financially empty?

    Quote Originally Posted by Parchiao View Post
    Yes, it does, it's really funny you don't see why.
    not really - i think you might want to throw it into the esteem level.. but even then it could be seen as a very loose link there

  5. #45

    Default Re: Are people now don with flashy/branded stuff but financially empty?

    Quote Originally Posted by night86mare View Post
    not really - i think you might want to throw it into the esteem level.. but even then it could be seen as a very loose link there
    You know of a better way to model human behaviour? I like Maslow cause his model is simple to understand and explain.

    Why buy branded clothing and not save? Because the need to save isn't there at all. As youngsters, basic needs are often managed by parents. So if basic needs are satisfied, for whatever money youngsters have, it will go to the next need. Different people will place a different value on needs, which explains why one feels the need to save while the other does not. I believe that it works with us adults too, the difference is that we have a far bigger earning power to satisfy a larger and wider set of needs.

    I guess if youngsters need to spend, let them be. As a Singaporean, while it is important to learn to save, like anybody else anywhere in the world, it is also important to learn how to manage debts. Most of us have to take up loans for education, housing and cars at some point in time, it's unavoidable, and at the same time we have to satisfy our other needs. Learning the follies of not saving when young is way better than learning it at when we become burdened with responsibilities.

  6. #46
    vince123123
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    Default Re: Are people now don with flashy/branded stuff but financially empty?

    I think you still failed to get what he means. If you wish to push your point across whatever he meant, then do not quote him and just state your point in vacuo and without reference to his post, since "whatever he means" your reply is the same.

    Quote Originally Posted by night86mare View Post
    whatever he means, the reply is the same

    if there is a trend, there is a trend; if we are to look at the entire thing on a case by case basis then no statements would ever have to be made

  7. #47
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    Default Re: Are people now don with flashy/branded stuff but financially empty?

    Quote Originally Posted by Parchiao View Post
    If it helps, I wasn't talking to you. And by the way, I have needs at almost every level everyday.
    Thanks. you really made my day. I live for your justification.... As if I care whether you are talking about me....Just joking lah!
    "Photography is an austere and blazing poetry of the real" -Ansel Adams

  8. #48

    Default Re: Are people now don with flashy/branded stuff but financially empty?

    Quote Originally Posted by vince123123 View Post
    I think you still failed to get what he means. If you wish to push your point across whatever he meant, then do not quote him and just state your point in vacuo and without reference to his post, since "whatever he means" your reply is the same.
    i think you fail to get what i mean

    good day, hope you like your own medicine

    your reply is redundant too, since you have not got what i meant

  9. #49

    Default Re: Are people now don with flashy/branded stuff but financially empty?

    Quote Originally Posted by Parchiao View Post
    You know of a better way to model human behaviour? I like Maslow cause his model is simple to understand and explain.

    Why buy branded clothing and not save? Because the need to save isn't there at all. As youngsters, basic needs are often managed by parents. So if basic needs are satisfied, for whatever money youngsters have, it will go to the next need. Different people will place a different value on needs, which explains why one feels the need to save while the other does not. I believe that it works with us adults too, the difference is that we have a far bigger earning power to satisfy a larger and wider set of needs.

    I guess if youngsters need to spend, let them be. As a Singaporean, while it is important to learn to save, like anybody else anywhere in the world, it is also important to learn how to manage debts. Most of us have to take up loans for education, housing and cars at some point in time, it's unavoidable, and at the same time we have to satisfy our other needs. Learning the follies of not saving when young is way better than learning it at when we become burdened with responsibilities.
    there is no need to model human behaviour; that is what i feel, humans are so vastly different and we all have different breaking points and view of the world, which is why psychology as a science has not really made much progress. in fact, neither has economics. we can model human behaviour, it will be a loose predictor, but it will never be 100% accurate.

    can needs and wants be really divided up into such nice, neat piles?

    you could certainly argue for many ways in which youngsters are entitled to spend. i mean, we've probably heard it all from the horse's mouth as well. but what doesn't change, for the most part is that for those without any income, they are actually living beyond their means, especially when they start working. or do you think it is correct for one to live on his elders for the most part of his life?

    yes, maybe one's basic needs are met so he has to move on to the "next level" - this also loosely explains why singaporeans like to complain about freedom of speech (ironic in itself, since they are complaining freely).. whereas the people of africa are too busy ekeing out their survival - but whether this "next level" is really something we should be pursuing, is another thing altogether.

  10. #50
    vince123123
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    Default Re: Are people now don with flashy/branded stuff but financially empty?

    I totally understood what you meant. You are merely saying that whatever mattlock meant (ie you dont' care what he said, hence "WHATEVER" me meant), your response is still the same. This means that you are more or less having a monologue with yourself since you do not take into account what people are trying to say, when making your own point.

    Do review your own words again, especially the part about "whatever he means, the reply is the same". Even when I try to explain what mattlock meant, you refused to see and still insist on your point of view (which is incongruent with and does not respond to what I think he meant).

    Quote Originally Posted by night86mare View Post
    i think you fail to get what i mean

    good day, hope you like your own medicine

    your reply is redundant too, since you have not got what i meant

  11. #51

    Default Re: Are people now don with flashy/branded stuff but financially empty?

    Quote Originally Posted by vince123123 View Post
    I totally understood what you meant. You are merely saying that whatever mattlock meant (ie you dont' care what he said, hence "WHATEVER" me meant), your response is still the same. This means that you are more or less having a monologue with yourself since you do not take into account what people are trying to say, when making your own point.

    Do review your own words again, especially the part about "whatever he means, the reply is the same". Even when I try to explain what mattlock meant, you refused to see and still insist on your point of view (which is incongruent with and does not respond to what I think he meant).
    sorry, you still don't understand what i mean

    would you like me to repeat myself again? it is easier for me, your monologue seems to get longer and longer

  12. #52
    vince123123
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    Default Re: Are people now don with flashy/branded stuff but financially empty?

    Sure, feel free to repeat yourself if you wish. Repeated allegations without substantiations is useless At least I bother to substantiate.

  13. #53

    Default Re: Are people now don with flashy/branded stuff but financially empty?

    Quote Originally Posted by vince123123 View Post
    Sure, feel free to repeat yourself if you wish. Repeated allegations without substantiations is useless At least I bother to substantiate.
    substantiating when not addressing the point correctly, is about as useless

    a: i ate lunch today

    b: you did not eat breakfast! because xxx yyy

    a: i ate lunch today!

    b: oh, but i know you meant breakfast xxx yyy

    a: you don't get my point

    b: but xxx yyy! i am vindicated and i substantiate what i mean!

  14. #54
    vince123123
    Guests

    Default Re: Are people now don with flashy/branded stuff but financially empty?

    Nice try, still failed

  15. #55

    Default Re: Are people now don with flashy/branded stuff but financially empty?

    Invest your cash n put ur money to work so that when u get those sweet returns can go n buy watever u want.
    If going thru bad patch then slow spending, and if you are financially savvy, can even leverage up.
    That way , can buy all those branded goodies.

  16. #56

    Default Re: Are people now don with flashy/branded stuff but financially empty?

    Quote Originally Posted by blive View Post
    Just take a look around clubsnap forum here. Many are buying photo gear in the name of hobby, but waiting for their pay or borrowing to make their purchase. Many are getting that way too can't afford it lens or top end camera and then complaining got no money left except to eat grass until the next paycheck or look for a discount of $10 - 20 to save money or no money to buy dry cabinet or cleaning cloth...8) Don't flame me....I am not condemning anyone, just making observations only.

    Anyway, what does it matter? Its their life. In every generation, there are people who do not save, and there are people who do not spend.

    As for me, there is a need to have extra set aside for the future, and only if you have extra, then spend on your needs, not your wants. No point buying all those gadgets and then don't even have savings for your daily needs. Its not how much you spend, but how much you don't spend. You can get by with a low income, if you know how to spend wisely.
    I could afford to buy a couple of 5D bodies but still think twice when buying a 500 bucks second hand lens. Must HAVE discipline in yrself!

  17. #57

    Default Re: Are people now don with flashy/branded stuff but financially empty?

    dun be like me, bought 1 hp, 2 laptops, 3 cameras within a yr
    now i got so many gadgets
    D7100,SB910,17-50/2.8OS,105/2.8VR,85/1.8D,2xE-M1,O60/2.8,12-40/2.8,35-100/2.8,14-42,LX100

  18. #58

    Default Re: Are people now don with flashy/branded stuff but financially empty?

    Sometimes it is better to conserve your opinions, and state a well thought out opinion on something that really matters to you rather than just wanting to have an opinion about everything

    I like people with opinions. I find people who have poorly thought out opinions amusing, that's all.

    That is why you typed out a whole long monologue that has nothing to do with what I was saying. satisfied?

    Just to put forward a point that people love to harp on "young people" and their actions for some reason.
    It's great to have savings. If you don't have savings then having people who can be your safety net is equally ok.
    It's too simplistic to count every purchase in dollars and cents.
    A friend just told me about an acquaintance who landed up in London with 500 bucks in his pocket. So he rented a limo, wore fancy clothing, hired a beautiful girl or two to be seen with, and then went around to parties and schmoozed around, and in the process got jobs and made money.

    Material things matter, they give you a sense of identity, you don't buy a ferrari just because it's fast (there are faster cars out there)
    You buy it in a big part for what it says about you (you made it, you can afford to be excessive, you're cool and dangerous, etc)
    If you think these things don't matter then you're obviously not in the business field
    Welcome to the real world, appearances matter a lot.

    I find it hypocritical to criticise other people for the way they spend money, different people value money differently depending on their needs.
    By criticising them you are basically saying that what they are doing is wrong and your way of thinking is right.
    So how do you think a poor Indonesian feels when he sees you buying a McSpicy meal from Macdonalds when the amount of money you spent on that single meal is enough to feed his family for 3 days?


    Quote Originally Posted by night86mare View Post
    ...and it is wrong to judge?

    have you not judged me to be prejudging everyone's intentions?

    if one cannot judge another's actions, choices, then this world is finished, i'm sure you know what i mean. or are you advocating this singaporean trend (it seems) of sitting on the fence for every issue alike, from large to small, to put up a facade of ultimate neutrality and seeming zendom? if you ask me, this is ludicrous, we are breeding a nation of jellyfishes who cannot have opinions for fear of erring in their judgement. what happened to the days of having an opinion, knowing what you stood for, and presenting logical reasons as to how you came to your judgement? if you had presented any logical refutation to my point of "wallowing in waste" i might concede or grudgingly agree to disagree. but here this amounts to saying that i have no right to judge anyone - then who has?

    humans are thinking creatures, we are all entitled to judge. if a spends his money on a camera that he does not use, or b spends his money buying a condominium that he does not stay in or rent out, then c is by all means, entitled to have an opinion and stipulate this opinion out aloud.

    your indirect "shut up, people have choices, maybe they have their reasons" statements amount to ultimate ridiculousness - taken further one could say that all murderers have a story, so they should be forgiven in the eyes of the law. for are we not "prejudging" them? when can one ever judge properly? 100 years later, 8000 discussion later? two could still bicker over another's reasons, for neither one is the person in question, and this is the way life works, it is too bad if you cannot see that.

    why wallowing in waste? we have teenagers who change their handphones every month, for the sake of keeping up with the joneses; there are people here in these forums that leap from d40 to d80 to d300 and then d3 within the space of less than a quarter of a year - you can give them excuses, maybe they are stressed, maybe they are so constrained by all the entry level models that they have to reach further, go that extra distance - what i see is blatant wastage.

    of course good comes out of it, the economy is driven further - but all good things come to an end, and this end comes when one's bank account is painfully empty when a rainy day comes by.

    i could grant one that there is satisfaction in luxury goods - when one lives within his means. but what do you see these days? people waltzing into branded goods stores and asking for "the best". there is a huge difference between educated purchases and ridiculous, uninformed, blind pursuit of superficiality.

  19. #59

    Default Re: Are people now don with flashy/branded stuff but financially empty?

    Well so what if I have to eat grass after spending on flashy stuff that I like, the satisfaction is good enough and I pity the rest. I can get a D3, rest my mind rather than those who kept thinking about it whole day long. Think here save there, thinking it is wasteful and boom, accidents happens and you left without pampering yourself.

  20. #60

    Default Re: Are people now don with flashy/branded stuff but financially empty?

    Quote Originally Posted by mattlock View Post
    Material things matter, they give you a sense of identity, you don't buy a ferrari just because it's fast (there are faster cars out there)
    You buy it in a big part for what it says about you (you made it, you can afford to be excessive, you're cool and dangerous, etc)
    If you think these things don't matter then you're obviously not in the business field
    Welcome to the real world, appearances matter a lot.

    I find it hypocritical to criticise other people for the way they spend money, different people value money differently depending on their needs.
    By criticising them you are basically saying that what they are doing is wrong and your way of thinking is right.
    So how do you think a poor Indonesian feels when he sees you buying a McSpicy meal from Macdonalds when the amount of money you spent on that single meal is enough to feed his family for 3 days?
    of course i know that - you are so set in my opinion being amusing and poorly thought out that you have not really read the last post you quoted, have you? the irony of it all.

    so which part of "satisfaction to be gained from luxury goods" did you not get?

    you bring up the point for spending for an impression - your example in london is one whereby the guy stands to gain for all his reckless ways. you also fail to realise that i spend my time studying in the city of london - you would have to be blind to stay there and not realise that appearances matter, not just in business, but in many aspects of life. it is signalling - if i am a lawyer, and i wear an expensive armani suit, it hints that i am a good lawyer, because i can afford such items and luxury goods. of course in reality it might not be so. i fully comprehend your point.

    but i disagree with you in the sense that you seem to advocate that that all spending choices can be explained away as having some value to the person who spends all the time. if the person in your london example, had instead sat on the streets and bought perhaps a few bottles of expensive liquor and drank himself to death that day, are you also going to say that some good came out of his consumer choice?

    yes, there are cases like you have mentioned, where spending has some positive value, i stress once again, that i do not deny you that. neither should you deny that there are cases which are clearcut wastages, driven by something warped, and having nothing to do with any advantage in mind, spending for the sake of spending. i am no conservative; i would not ask everybody to dress in the simplest clothing and grow their own vegetables - but neither could you really blame me for formulating opinions of the seemingly overwhelming examples in my generation that i have seen.

    so how does a poor indonesian feel when he sees me buy a mcspicy? why, if he is me, he will feel the same way i feel when i see some of my friends who are well able to afford it buying branded goods in london that i cannot afford - he will understand that different people have different strokes.

    but how should a poor indonesian feel, if he is an acquitance, he has a rough grasp of my background and how much money runs in my family, and he sees me partying all day long, and even telling my parents that school fees have increased when i have actually surpassed their budget for me? surely, he isn't going to be able to understand what is running through my mind, neither would i expect him to.

    and then again, EVEN if the poor indonesian feels angry that life is unfair to him, that i can eat a mcspicy when he has to eat grass.. you tell me - is it wrong for him to be angry? your example probably provides the best context for refutation - you say that we should expect every human being to be a demigod, to view things with entire neutrality. then i will say that no such human being exists.

    i hope you get my point. judgement for the sake of judgement is very very different from judging when there is something to judge. there are grey areas, perhaps; but that does not go to say that there are no black and white areas. life is black, grey AND white, and it will do well to remember that.

    on another note, does everybody not have a preformulated view of things? this is the very substance that shapes a human. by saying that i claim that my way of thinking is right is statement of something natural. "i think, therefore i am." if a person has doubts about the way he thinks, then he would most certainly be schizoprenic. once again, note that this is vastly different from saying that the person is not amendable to trying to emphatise with others, or walk around in their shoes. i would think it a very sad person, who tries to be the messiah and sees things from everybody's perspective and can even understand it when he innately disagrees. no one is that open-minded; and to profess to be so, is the true hypocriscy, i feel.
    Last edited by night86mare; 14th April 2008 at 03:32 AM.

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