Advise please for getting a TLR

[alvincrew]

Hi all,

I'm a student here, interested in playing TLR. I have done some research on my own and narrowed the brands down to Rollei and Yashica. Currently models narrowed down are only Yashica mat 124/124G and Yashica mat.

Did some research for Rollei but am rather confused with all the models. Can anyone here give me some models (good for starters/amatures) to look into or any websites?

Also, i've heard about brand new Seagulls, going for $200~$300 but didn't understand why they are recommended for newbies. For $200+ i can get a good condition yashica mat online.
Can anyone tell me why are seagulls so popular?

Thank you in advance.

PS:
Am looking for a TLR with light meter

[eamesboy]

I just bought my first TLR camera. Still playing with it. A Yashica Mat 124 with a working light meter.
Cant really give you much advice. Didn't know that seagulls TLR cameras are popular?
Guess seagulls TLR are much affordable and that is why most people recommended for newbies.
Brand new set shouldn't give you too much problem too unlike the old vintage TLR cameras
give you lot of problem and good condition TLR are getting harder to find now a days.

Some info on Rollei : http://www.stutterheim.nl/rugarchives/faq.html

Rolleicord and the much popular Rolleiflex.

It a better choice to get the Yashica Mat 124 or 124G in long run you shouldn't have any
problem selling it and get back what you pay for and fund for other camera.
As for Rolleiflex get your $$$$ ready. It will cost you a bomb..

As for seagulls TLR is kinda hard to find buyer.

If you like to see the real thing. I can show you my Yashica Mat 124.
Trying to find newbie to share and learn together.


Let me know?

Cheers.

Originally Posted by alvincrew Hi all, I'm a student here, interested in playing TLR. I have done some research on my own and narrowed the brands down to Rollei and Yashica. Currently models narrowed down are only Yashica mat 124/124G and Yashica mat. Did some research for Rollei but am rather confused with all the models. Can anyone here give me some models (good for starters/amatures) to look into or any websites? Also, i've heard about brand new Seagulls, going for $200~$300 but didn't understand why they are recommended for newbies. For $200+ i can get a good condition yashica mat online. Can anyone tell me why are seagulls so popular? Thank you in advance. PS: Am looking for a TLR with light meter

[alvincrew]

Originally Posted by eamesboy I just bought my first TLR camera. Still playing with it. A Yashica Mat 124 with a working light meter. Cant really give you much advice. Didn't know that seagulls TLR cameras are popular? Guess seagulls TLR are much affordable and that is why most people recommended for newbies. Brand new set shouldn't give you too much problem too unlike the old vintage TLR cameras give you lot of problem and good condition TLR are getting harder to find now a days. Some info on Rollei : http://www.stutterheim.nl/rugarchives/faq.html Rolleicord and the much popular Rolleiflex. It a better choice to get the Yashica Mat 124 or 124G in long run you shouldn't have any problem selling it and get back what you pay for and fund for other camera. As for Rolleiflex get your $$$$ ready. It will cost you a bomb.. As for seagulls TLR is kinda hard to find buyer. If you like to see the real thing. I can show you my Yashica Mat 124. Trying to find newbie to share and learn together. Let me know? Cheers.

That would be great!
PM me your contact?

How is ur yashica doing? Is it giving you any problem?
I heard that the light meter is not accurate though - may need a seperate light meter?

[jonathan_wong]

Hi

I have slowly built up a collection of TLR since my student days. My very first one was the Shanghai old TLR that had a dim and dark focusing screen. That was when I was in sec 1 and my dad gave one to me.

Not based on sentimental reasons, a good start is, IMO still, a Seagull TLR which you can purchase for less than $300. Or even lower if you go for a Seagull 4B-1, or Seagull 4A-105. The Seagull 4A-107 is slightly overpriced now, IMO, but is a really good camera. I have 5 of them. 4 bought in Shanghai, and 1 from USA. The one from USA required some service (rough focusing knob). The ones from China are excellent. Instead of using my Rolleiflex (I have 5 also), my regular TLR outing is always a Seagull 4A-107.

http://www.ephotozine.com/article/Seagull-4A-105

Why I recommend a Seagull is, they are now having Minolta type of QC and the picture taken is great. They are definitely not as good as a Rolleiflex. But they have their own charm and goodness.

Why I do not recommend a Yashica is, they are too old, needs some service to guarantee proper operation. I do have the Yashica 635, Yashica B (round aperture), Yashica C, Yashicamat 124G (2 sets, mint, and both got shuttle accuracy problem previously, spent a lot of effort to fix by ordering new parts from some Yashica repair shos in USA).

Incidentally, all my Yashica TLRs were purchased when I was in UK and USA. The ones in Singapore I saw all got fungus and other problems. Maybe there were good samples, but still need clearning and servicing.

If you have a Yashica, try to fire all speeds. The One second test is the best. Turn to 1s setting, crank, press the shuttle, and say 'Miss-si-si-pi one' as usual. If the shuttle close when you finish, it is in good condition. If it is too fast or too slow, you can forget it as fixing is expensive and may return again.

Then check the taking lens. Many I saw all got fungus or fogging. It is not even worth $50 if the lens is bad.

Why go thru all this pain, when all you can get the convenience of a Seagull.

Picture Qualities

The original Rolleiflex are the best but be prepared to pay over 1k for a good one.

The ones with Carl Zeiss lenses are super sharp, but best for B&W. The colour is not as great as those from Scheindler.

The ones with Scheindler lens are super for colour prints. Really, nothing beats it. From my wife to son, I am glad I god a 2.8F with Scheindler lens to keep pictures of a life time.

Yashicamat 124 gives rich and nice colour tones. It is very Japanese and very rich. But in terms of sharpness is nowhere nere the German ones.

The same goes to Yashica 635. Until today I still cannot find a 135mm adaptor for this TLR, but it has taken a lot of great shots for me. I used it to shoot over 50 rolls of Fuji Velvia when I was in Korea, and no regrets about the pictures. But its knob film advance system is very prone to mistakes. I took a lot of doublt exposures or missed shots.

The Seagull 4B-1 has very rice colour tones and nice nostalgic feel. If you want to replicate a 1940 feel, simply shoot wide open, It has the same feel as the Yashica 635 in terms of operation. The picture quality is very good if you stopped down to F5.6. I know many UK photographer used it as a main shooting machine for magazines in the 90s.

Coming to 4A-105, the B&W shots are very nice. I used a orange filter to shoot T-Max and it won me some prices in the past. Some people even asked me what camera was it when they looked at the picture enlarged to about 12 inches by 12 inches. If you use a big camera, it would be damn stupid to carry it around comparatively.

When Seagull released the 4A-107, it was a complete copy of the Rolleiflex but with many plastic parts and weak constructions. The lens has one more element which is more to the Tessar design than the Cooke lens design of the 4A-105. I was the first in Singapore to order it from China in Singapore and had 2. The B&W pictures looked more refined than the 4A-105, almost comparable to the Rolleicod IVb which I have 2. In terms of colour, they look more 'clean' than the 4A-105. Somehow, 4A-105 colour pictures makes me feel 'dirty'.... I dont know how to describe it. But the 4A-107 makes the pictures looked more clean. Having said that, the 4A-107 is no where comparable to Rolleiflex F2.8 with Scheindler. I would not call 4A-107 a poor camera, its just different feel. And i would be very happy to carry a 4A-107 to go for trips.

If someone is selling a 4A-105, or 4A-107, my suggestion is to grab it. The picture is many times better than a DSLR, in terms of feel, quality and of course, FUN.

* I have posted some pictures on Photo.net using the 4A-105. Look for my gallery, and it will tell you how nice the pictures can be. I shot Boat Quay and KLCC. That was about 8 years ago when I was obssessed with F22. Using F22 may not be the best sharpness of this TLR, but it can show you what this TLR can do. Time has changed when DSLR is dominiating the mainstream. Use a Seagull and get the real fun and feel of a picture.

[eamesboy]

Thanks for sharing! Jonathan.Wong?

You should show us some of your pictures you took with your Seagull.
Would love to see them all on the gathering for TLR soon?

I am still a newbie. But, i just love the design and how the Yashica mat 124
and Mamiya 330c were build. Germany camera are till the best!
Rollieflex F2.8 is my dream camera. Still trying to find a good set
with a good price. Hopefully i can own one soon.

Cheers!

Originally Posted by jonathan_wong Hi I have slowly built up a collection of TLR since my student days. My very first one was the Shanghai old TLR that had a dim and dark focusing screen. That was when I was in sec 1 and my dad gave one to me. Not based on sentimental reasons, a good start is, IMO still, a Seagull TLR which you can purchase for less than $300. Or even lower if you go for a Seagull 4B-1, or Seagull 4A-105. The Seagull 4A-107 is slightly overpriced now, IMO, but is a really good camera. I have 5 of them. 4 bought in Shanghai, and 1 from USA. The one from USA required some service (rough focusing knob). The ones from China are excellent. Instead of using my Rolleiflex (I have 5 also), my regular TLR outing is always a Seagull 4A-107. http://www.ephotozine.com/article/Seagull-4A-105 Why I recommend a Seagull is, they are now having Minolta type of QC and the picture taken is great. They are definitely not as good as a Rolleiflex. But they have their own charm and goodness. Why I do not recommend a Yashica is, they are too old, needs some service to guarantee proper operation. I do have the Yashica 635, Yashica B (round aperture), Yashica C, Yashicamat 124G (2 sets, mint, and both got shuttle accuracy problem previously, spent a lot of effort to fix by ordering new parts from some Yashica repair shos in USA). Incidentally, all my Yashica TLRs were purchased when I was in UK and USA. The ones in Singapore I saw all got fungus and other problems. Maybe there were good samples, but still need clearning and servicing. If you have a Yashica, try to fire all speeds. The One second test is the best. Turn to 1s setting, crank, press the shuttle, and say 'Miss-si-si-pi one' as usual. If the shuttle close when you finish, it is in good condition. If it is too fast or too slow, you can forget it as fixing is expensive and may return again. Then check the taking lens. Many I saw all got fungus or fogging. It is not even worth $50 if the lens is bad. Why go thru all this pain, when all you can get the convenience of a Seagull. Picture Qualities The original Rolleiflex are the best but be prepared to pay over 1k for a good one. The ones with Carl Zeiss lenses are super sharp, but best for B&W. The colour is not as great as those from Scheindler. The ones with Scheindler lens are super for colour prints. Really, nothing beats it. From my wife to son, I am glad I god a 2.8F with Scheindler lens to keep pictures of a life time. Yashicamat 124 gives rich and nice colour tones. It is very Japanese and very rich. But in terms of sharpness is nowhere nere the German ones. The same goes to Yashica 635. Until today I still cannot find a 135mm adaptor for this TLR, but it has taken a lot of great shots for me. I used it to shoot over 50 rolls of Fuji Velvia when I was in Korea, and no regrets about the pictures. But its knob film advance system is very prone to mistakes. I took a lot of doublt exposures or missed shots. The Seagull 4B-1 has very rice colour tones and nice nostalgic feel. If you want to replicate a 1940 feel, simply shoot wide open, It has the same feel as the Yashica 635 in terms of operation. The picture quality is very good if you stopped down to F5.6. I know many UK photographer used it as a main shooting machine for magazines in the 90s. Coming to 4A-105, the B&W shots are very nice. I used a orange filter to shoot T-Max and it won me some prices in the past. Some people even asked me what camera was it when they looked at the picture enlarged to about 12 inches by 12 inches. If you use a big camera, it would be damn stupid to carry it around comparatively. When Seagull released the 4A-107, it was a complete copy of the Rolleiflex but with many plastic parts and weak constructions. The lens has one more element which is more to the Tessar design than the Cooke lens design of the 4A-105. I was the first in Singapore to order it from China in Singapore and had 2. The B&W pictures looked more refined than the 4A-105, almost comparable to the Rolleicod IVb which I have 2. In terms of colour, they look more 'clean' than the 4A-105. Somehow, 4A-105 colour pictures makes me feel 'dirty'.... I dont know how to describe it. But the 4A-107 makes the pictures looked more clean. Having said that, the 4A-107 is no where comparable to Rolleiflex F2.8 with Scheindler. I would not call 4A-107 a poor camera, its just different feel. And i would be very happy to carry a 4A-107 to go for trips. If someone is selling a 4A-105, or 4A-107, my suggestion is to grab it. The picture is many times better than a DSLR, in terms of feel, quality and of course, FUN. * I have posted some pictures on Photo.net using the 4A-105. Look for my gallery, and it will tell you how nice the pictures can be. I shot Boat Quay and KLCC. That was about 8 years ago when I was obssessed with F22. Using F22 may not be the best sharpness of this TLR, but it can show you what this TLR can do. Time has changed when DSLR is dominiating the mainstream. Use a Seagull and get the real fun and feel of a picture.

[eamesboy]

Originally Posted by alvincrew That would be great! PM me your contact? How is ur yashica doing? Is it giving you any problem? I heard that the light meter is not accurate though - may need a seperate light meter?

You can contact me at 9680 9036.
I restore everything! Hopefully it will not give me any problem anytime soon?
Condition of my Yashica Mat 124 is near mint. Light meter work.
How accurate? Picture i took is still in the lab. Ha ha..
Will let you know again soon?


Cheers.


...

[alvincrew]

wow, thank you very much jonathan.

your experience and advise really makes me reconsider my choices. My main concern about seagull is the cheap quality of the build (very plasticy) as compared to the others.

How does the light meters fare for all? I read that the light meter on yashica is not accurate. I'm thinking to drop the light meter models if they aren't accurate because I might as well as a light meter unit and save the weight of the built in light meter in the TLR. What kind of film advance system is it on the Yashica 124s?

Lastly, where to get seagull in Singapore ar?

Thanks.......!

[zenesh]

the prices on ebay for the rolleicords and yashicas are quite cheap but as jonathan_wong pointed out, the speeds are usually off.

There are quite a few other things to check about the camera other then the speeds and the glass, thus it is hard to see that the camera is ok from the auction description and photos.

Just got a yashicamat from ebay. It looked exactly just like the picture - glass is clear but the speeds were slow. Sent it for servicing and as the repairguy look at it, he shows me where the camera was probably dropped before, and cleaning stains on the lens. Furthermore, after servicing, had problems with the film advance and back it goes to the repairman. This time, he shows me that the advance has been taken apart before and a washer was missing when it was reassembled. Luckily, it can be fixed and the camera is functional.

Moral of the story, many other things to check about the camera other then clear glass and accurate shutter. so ebay is really luck of the draw.

Regards

[alvincrew]

Originally Posted by zenesh the prices on ebay for the rolleicords and yashicas are quite cheap but as jonathan_wong pointed out, the speeds are usually off. There are quite a few other things to check about the camera other then the speeds and the glass, thus it is hard to see that the camera is ok from the auction description and photos. Just got a yashicamat from ebay. It looked exactly just like the picture - glass is clear but the speeds were slow. Sent it for servicing and as the repairguy look at it, he shows me where the camera was probably dropped before, and cleaning stains on the lens. Furthermore, after servicing, had problems with the film advance and back it goes to the repairman. This time, he shows me that the advance has been taken apart before and a washer was missing when it was reassembled. Luckily, it can be fixed and the camera is functional. Moral of the story, many other things to check about the camera other then clear glass and accurate shutter. so ebay is really luck of the draw. Regards

Indeed. Especially for these aged cameras with sophisticated mechanism.

How much did you spend on the camera and for the repairing? Just curious.

[zenesh]

about 100USD.

Repair and servicing varies. would say good to budget from $100 to $300 for it.

[alvincrew]

Originally Posted by zenesh about 100USD. Repair and servicing varies. would say good to budget from $100 to $300 for it.

I see...

How is your experience with your the yashica? How is it compared with other TLRs?
Care to share any photos taken with it?