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Thread: Tiger Wood curses at photographer

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    Talking Tiger Wood curses at photographer


  2. #2

    Default Re: Tiger Wood curses at photographer

    Are ear-plugs or mufflers allowed in competitive/pro golf tourneys?

    If not, and the organisers allow photographers on the course and allow shooting during the swing, it's just a fact of life, not matter how distracting, that he has to live with, just like all the other competitors.

    IF photography before, during or after the swing is NOT allowed, and such a rule is clearly stipluated, in advance, or there are rules and guidelines for photographers clearly being broken, then yeah, his anger and outburst may be justified.

    It's then a matter to be brought up and appealed with the ORGANISERS, and not the individual photographer. Depending on the news agency, there may be quiet lawsuits in place by now.

    And what in the world has brand of equipment got to do with it, unless you're deliberately trying to start a brand war here in CS?
    Last edited by Dream Merchant; 29th March 2008 at 03:16 AM.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Tiger Wood curses at photographer

    Quote Originally Posted by Dream Merchant View Post
    And what in the world has brand of equipment got to do with it, unless you're deliberately trying to start a brand war here in CS?

    take it easy dude, dun be like Tigga
    fyi ;; sports photogs sure use either Canon & Nikon

  4. #4

    Default Re: Tiger Wood curses at photographer

    Quote Originally Posted by mysterio506 View Post
    take it easy dude, dun be like Tigga
    fyi ;; sports photogs sure use either Canon & Nikon
    Why so sure about that ??
    Last edited by Oly5050; 29th March 2008 at 07:52 PM.
    I have a near-mint Olympus E-620 Underwater Case for Sale. PM me for a great deal!

  5. #5

    Default Re: Tiger Wood curses at photographer

    Quote Originally Posted by Oly5050 View Post
    Why so sure about that ??
    oh yeah... forget to add in olympus5050

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Tiger Wood curses at photographer

    Now, the question is how loud are the shutters of dSLR, different models diff noise level?

    So, depending on the presence of ambient noise, how far should the "safe" distance at which the shutter noise could not be heard by the golfer. 30m away?

    Like in the recent HSBC championship at Tanah Merah, the ambient noise was pretty high, I don't think the golfer can hear anything at 20m away.

    And then, some dSLR are noisier than others.
    I love big car, big house, big lenses, but small apertures.

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    Default Re: Tiger Wood curses at photographer

    Use a rangefinder lor...honestly there is also a limit to how anal golfers can be. While I do advocate responsible shooting by the sports photogs, there cannot be such a pathetic tolerance for ambient noise from the golfer either.

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    Default Re: Tiger Wood curses at photographer

    Yeah, it is about time we see some rangfinder with DX size sensor and using SLR type of interchangeable lens mount. Noiseless and you shoot with the Liveview. Best for the golf course.
    I love big car, big house, big lenses, but small apertures.

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    Default Re: Tiger Wood curses at photographer

    Quote Originally Posted by smallaperture View Post
    Yeah, it is about time we see some rangfinder with DX size sensor and using SLR type of interchangeable lens mount. Noiseless and you shoot with the Liveview. Best for the golf course.
    It will be called the Leica M9 and will retail for a premium sum of 9k.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Tiger Wood curses at photographer

    Quote Originally Posted by Dream Merchant View Post
    Are ear-plugs or mufflers allowed in competitive/pro golf tourneys?

    If not, and the organisers allow photographers on the course and allow shooting during the swing, it's just a fact of life, not matter how distracting, that he has to live with, just like all the other competitors.

    IF photography before, during or after the swing is NOT allowed, and such a rule is clearly stipluated, in advance, or there are rules and guidelines for photographers clearly being broken, then yeah, his anger and outburst may be justified.

    It's then a matter to be brought up and appealed with the ORGANISERS, and not the individual photographer. Depending on the news agency, there may be quiet lawsuits in place by now.

    And what in the world has brand of equipment got to do with it, unless you're deliberately trying to start a brand war here in CS?

    In PGA and USGA events, the media photographers will not start shooting on the back swing, and will only let fire the shutters after the club head kissed the ball goodbye. Shooting during the back swing is not a fact of life, and should not be.

    The pros covering the match are not the culprit, and sadly to say, and I have witnessed this many times, it's the amateurs who have no idea what they should and should not do. It's a common that the marshall on the course tells the specators to keep quiet. If the spectators are told to keep quiet, should other sound making equiptments be slienced also?

    There is no appeal if you drop a stroke and loose the god damn tornament. Who to appeal to? It's just curtesy.
    deadpoet
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  11. #11

    Default Re: Tiger Wood curses at photographer

    Quote Originally Posted by Deadpoet View Post
    In PGA and USGA events, the media photographers will not start shooting on the back swing, and will only let fire the shutters after the club head kissed the ball goodbye. Shooting during the back swing is not a fact of life, and should not be.

    The pros covering the match are not the culprit, and sadly to say, and I have witnessed this many times, it's the amateurs who have no idea what they should and should not do. It's a common that the marshall on the course tells the specators to keep quiet. If the spectators are told to keep quiet, should other sound making equiptments be slienced also?

    There is no appeal if you drop a stroke and loose the god damn tornament. Who to appeal to? It's just curtesy.
    I'm glad you chimed in DP.

    If that's the case, and there are rules or at least guidelines for any photographer or spectator wielding any sort of camera advising against shooting on the back or up-swing, then Woods' reaction may be justified.

    It's the organisers' who want the spectators ticket money whose at fault, as well as those 'amatures' who lacked any sense or decency...or is it entirely?

    If a recourse for appeal is not in place, and assuming that such high-profile events are probably super widely recorded and documented, and such distractions are evidenced, since they are multi-million dollar events with intensive media coverage, then it might be an issue that needs to be addressed by the powers that be, assuming that the game at the pro level is supposed to be played in absolute silence and serenity.

    General etiquette is one thing, but to expect that perfect conditions should exist at pro tourneys is another. A quick look at many precision sporting events even at the World or Olympic level will reveal all sorts of visual and audio disturbance, regardless of intention or condition, and the best of plans or officials' constant pleas for quietness.

    Top and pro level athletes are supposed to delve quite deeply into very rigorous mental training with the aid of gazillions of dollars pumped into sports psychology and such, and a large part of the result is supposed to involve handling stress and less than ideal conditions, distractions, intentional or not, as well as upsets of any sort.

    Please don't get me wrong.

    I am not saying I advocate a lack of courtesy and anyhow anytime anywhere whack photos kind of attitude especially at a pro level sporting event where the difference in winning and losing a huge sum of money can be determined by one single point, but unless there were like 5 or 10 or more people firing their noisy DSLRs all at the same time when Woods was on the upswing, then Woods' losing his momentum or focus just at that point when he should have been fully 'in his zone' might have been a simple failure in his mental game, as well as the arrangements, security and logistics on the part of the organisers. If it was just one inconsiderate person with a machine-gun DSLR, and perhaps a few others with much less noisy PnS, than all the more shame on Woods' mental game and lack of ability to cope.

    I'm not saying those who snapped away are free of blame. No, but the bigger and perhaps more real problem might lie elsewhere, as it usually does in real life.
    Last edited by Dream Merchant; 30th March 2008 at 04:28 AM.

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    Default Re: Tiger Wood curses at photographer

    I think Tiger needs to worry less about shutter clicks than people using the underhanded coughing tactic.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Tiger Wood curses at photographer

    At most golf tornaments, there are actually staff holding "Quiet Please" signs around the golfer when he or she is about to hit the ball.

    I have seen many golf greats actually walk away and wait for some noice to go away, usually an aircraft or something out of their control, before getting back into the stance ....

    Golf requires alot of concentration. A photographer machine gunning a 20D shutter is a nuisance. To address this after the fact via lawsuits etc is useless. Tornament organisers are trying their best.

    Before golf become so popular, the ettiquette at tornaments were much better.

    I will go out on a limb here. I dare say, if the photogrpaher in question were a golfer, this will not happen. We will not make noise when another golfer is about the hit the ball, even for us weekend golfers.

    I once witness Greg Norman went ballistic when a spectator used his PnS, and the flash fired. I don't blame him. This cannot be equated to other sporting events. Why? Most other sporting events, the source of the noise/disturbance is far away. For golf, the spectators are literally a few meters away.
    deadpoet
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  14. #14

    Default Re: Tiger Wood curses at photographer

    There's a book out for photogs called the ABC's of photography. It's the first book any photog and every person should buy... it means Always Be Courteous.

    Can you today at the event you shoot, or wherever you go do that? Are you capable of doing that; of being courteous? Can you do the same tomorrow and the next? If you could, we would not be making this topic a debate.

    One thing you can count on here is that something so simple is going to turn into something complex by people who have no clue.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Tiger Wood curses at photographer

    Quote Originally Posted by Deadpoet View Post
    At most golf tornaments, there are actually staff holding "Quiet Please" signs around the golfer when he or she is about to hit the ball.

    I have seen many golf greats actually walk away and wait for some noice to go away, usually an aircraft or something out of their control, before getting back into the stance ....

    Golf requires alot of concentration. A photographer machine gunning a 20D shutter is a nuisance. To address this after the fact via lawsuits etc is useless. Tornament organisers are trying their best.

    Before golf become so popular, the ettiquette at tornaments were much better.

    I will go out on a limb here. I dare say, if the photogrpaher in question were a golfer, this will not happen. We will not make noise when another golfer is about the hit the ball, even for us weekend golfers.

    I once witness Greg Norman went ballistic when a spectator used his PnS, and the flash fired. I don't blame him. This cannot be equated to other sporting events. Why? Most other sporting events, the source of the noise/disturbance is far away. For golf, the spectators are literally a few meters away.
    You're quite right. I offering other views as I am involved in a precision sport that's frequently compared to golf, at least where concentration and the mental game is concerned, and we often have to compete and perform in the most appalling spectator conditions. But the difference is we're not competing for money for the most part.

    I know tons of photographers and weekend shooters would balk at what I am about to say, but if cameras and the lack of courtesy at golf tourneys are such a problem, why don't organisers just ban all cameras, except for official or authorised photographers? A look around Singapore already shows many organisers and property owners doing that at much less significant events.

    Hawaiisg, were you referring to me with your statements?

  16. #16

    Default Re: Tiger Wood curses at photographer

    As DP pointed out, most ignorant disruptions at the tee box arise from the culprit not understanding and/or respecting the sport itself.

    While non-golfers would gawk and boo at TW's reaction, I'd wager that the pro photographers who understand the game would be tsking with sympathy to TW's woes, and giving a stiff stare to the moron who snapped away for not only spoiling an otherwise good tee shot, but also for giving pro photographers a bad name.

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    Default Re: Tiger Wood curses at photographer

    Quote Originally Posted by calebk View Post
    It will be called the Leica M9 and will retail for a premium sum of 9k.
    I tot folks like Casio or Sigma could bring out one that cost like an entry level dSLR.

    Simple camera without shutter, without mirror or pentaprism viewfinder. In fact, should be priced like a high end digicam or even cheaper than an entry level dSLR.
    I love big car, big house, big lenses, but small apertures.

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    Default Re: Tiger Wood curses at photographer

    Quote Originally Posted by Gunbucker View Post
    As DP pointed out, most ignorant disruptions at the tee box arise from the culprit not understanding and/or respecting the sport itself.

    While non-golfers would gawk and boo at TW's reaction, I'd wager that the pro photographers who understand the game would be tsking with sympathy to TW's woes, and giving a stiff stare to the moron who snapped away for not only spoiling an otherwise good tee shot, but also for giving pro photographers a bad name.
    I recall years ago expecially with SLRs, a tennis game for example had the same problem that they actually would take the photographer out of the tournament arena. The shutter clicking distracted the player's concentration when they are serving the ball by tossing it in the air. It was also during this time they sport photographer who wanted to avoid these and as I also read in other games like golf tornies..they send their SLRs in to special 3rd party shops to modify their shutter mechanism to quiet it down to just a tiny sound by damping or something. With the modern DSLRs I am not sure if that can be done. Anything that would definitely make a sound still would be those mobile phone cams and some PnS...by law it has to make a sound or have a led flash this due to all those complains of it being use to take naked pictures of girls in toilets ...etc The sound or led blink will hopefully give them away.

    I use to golf alot and I do know what it is like to be distracted when making a crucial shot. To all those who don't know what that is like and 'bitch' those golfers for not "understanding" and being too sensitive and anally about the game well how about how you feel when all you did was take an innocent picture at the MRT or Explande or shopping mall and you are asked to stop or delete your shot and you are grilled like a terrorist. Sure it is no bigh deal but yet they asked you to stop ...so how do you feel?

    You can't have your cake and eat it by yourself. If you can be serious about your hobby or sport so can others. If you don't understand that then you have no right to being there or call yourself a fan of the sport or sportman you admire. It's worst if you call yourself a fan and you screw up his shot and lose him the tornament. A game like golf is often won or lose by just one point. That's how crucial it is for world champion class players.

    A price of a ticket to a golf game is to be there in person to watch it but it does not mean that you have the right to do as you please. A camera you owe does not give you the full right to use it to intrude where ever or whoever you like as much as you 'think' you could. Sure most of the time we are allowed to or even torlerated ( whether you are aware of it or not) but there will still be times and maybe out of common decency and consideration pratice good judgement even when YOU CAN SHOOT with your 'noisy' cameras.
    Last edited by sammy888; 30th March 2008 at 09:41 PM.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Tiger Wood curses at photographer

    What needed is 1) educate the public and 2) allow the organiser to run the tornaments as it should be run. At the end of the day, the gate receipt of a tornament is miniscue compare to the money from sponsor. Sponsor will open up their piggy bank if the big names show up.

    I am sure all the golfer/photographer out there will agree with me. It is very disturbing then you are addressing the ball, started on your back swing, and someone coughed.

    I do not agree with DM that non accredited photographers are banned from bringing their camera onto the course. What is happenning in Singapore is equally disturbing. If there is a problem, fix the problem, but by fixing does not mean killing the patient. Banning non accredited photographers/camera on the course is akin to killing the patient.
    deadpoet
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  20. #20

    Default Re: Tiger Wood curses at photographer

    Quote Originally Posted by Deadpoet View Post
    What needed is 1) educate the public and 2) allow the organiser to run the tornaments as it should be run. At the end of the day, the gate receipt of a tornament is miniscue compare to the money from sponsor. Sponsor will open up their piggy bank if the big names show up.

    I am sure all the golfer/photographer out there will agree with me. It is very disturbing then you are addressing the ball, started on your back swing, and someone coughed.

    I do not agree with DM that non accredited photographers are banned from bringing their camera onto the course. What is happenning in Singapore is equally disturbing. If there is a problem, fix the problem, but by fixing does not mean killing the patient. Banning non accredited photographers/camera on the course is akin to killing the patient.
    I agree.

    Thankfully Singapore has not gotten as neurotic or fanatical about photographers in public places, or places where there is high human/tourist traffic.

    Nurturing and education is a better answer in the long run.

    CHEERS!

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