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Thread: Big chunk of Antarctic ice shelf falling apart

  1. #21

    Default Re: Big chunk of Antarctic ice shelf falling apart

    Quote Originally Posted by denniskee View Post
    report has it that since the poles are warming up, sharks are migrating there, soon can be taken out of the endangered species list. than we all can happily have shark fins soup.
    Dennis, that's SO 'Asian' or consumeristic!

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  2. #22

    Default Re: Big chunk of Antarctic ice shelf falling apart

    Quote Originally Posted by denniskee View Post
    report has it that since the poles are warming up, sharks are migrating there, soon can be taken out of the endangered species list. than we all can happily have shark fins soup.
    Only if you also have shark-steak burgers and have shark skin jackets.

    What really @^@$&@$ me off about the shark fin poachers, is that's all they take. They chop the fin of and toss the rest of the shark over board.

    If you are going to hunt an animal, the least you can to is use as much of it as possible....

    Too much waste.

  3. #23

    Default Re: Big chunk of Antarctic ice shelf falling apart

    Quote Originally Posted by drakon09 View Post
    The more immediate effects of the melting Antartic ice is that sea levels will rise, threatening coastal cities and island nations, especially the poorer ones who cannot afford to build dykes.
    Dude, the Antarctic ice shelfs are already floating. Their melting wouldn't increase sea levels. And we can all do better with slightly higher temperatures. Less people will die from cardiovascular or respiratory diseases.

  4. #24

    Default Re: Big chunk of Antarctic ice shelf falling apart

    More vaccination....there will be more tropical dieases..

  5. #25
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    Default Re: Big chunk of Antarctic ice shelf falling apart

    Quote Originally Posted by matthew View Post
    Only if you also have shark-steak burgers and have shark skin jackets.

    What really @^@$&@$ me off about the shark fin poachers, is that's all they take. They chop the fin of and toss the rest of the shark over board.

    If you are going to hunt an animal, the least you can to is use as much of it as possible....

    Too much waste.
    i dont think the rest of the body will go to waste, it buffet time for other fishes.

    personally, i dont find shark fin soup very nice, give me pork porridge anytime man.
    photography makes one sees things from all angles.

  6. #26
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    Default Re: Big chunk of Antarctic ice shelf falling apart

    Quote Originally Posted by sammy888 View Post
    With all due respect. I can understand that you have read quite abit of this and to what extend and if you could name which organisation, institute and the actual name of scientists ( not the politician and lobbists for companies with commercial agendas to use this to push over priced "green" products which actually creates just as much industrial waste, pollution and wastage in producing them)....
    You can take a look at an objective source of information relating to climage change from the IPCC (http://www.ipcc.ch/about/index.htm) - the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change setup by the UN - and their purpose is to

    "Its role is to assess on a comprehensive, objective, open and transparent basis the latest scientific, technical and socio-economic literature produced worldwide relevant to the understanding of the risk of human-induced climate change, its observed and projected impacts and options for adaptation and mitigation. IPCC reports should be neutral with respect to policy, although they need to deal objectively with policy relevant scientific, technical and socio economic factors. They should be of high scientific and technical standards, and aim to reflect a range of views, expertise and wide geographical coverage."

    You can take a look at their reports (the detailed ones or the summary for poicymakers) for more comprehensive objective information regarding climate change.

  7. #27
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    Default Re: Big chunk of Antarctic ice shelf falling apart

    Quote Originally Posted by hazmee View Post
    After reading a lot of 'green' stuff on the net, I can't help but agree with sammy888 here. I find all this hype about going is green is simply publicity stunt by big companies to cash in on the gullible masses.

    The most ridiculous 'green' message I have read so far is to stop buying CDs, buy music online and it shows Ben Affleck holding an iPod looking really cool. Well, IMHO, making the iPod causes even more pollution to the world and uses up even more of earth's resources than say making a CD. Also what about the power usage to keep all that data running on the server 24/7?
    But you're confusing the marketing tactics of a particular company with the actual scientific basis for climate change. There will always be companies who will use marketing tactics to try and capitalise on issues of concern and use it to their advantage - but that does not take away from the real overwhelming scientific basis for the issues regarding climate change.

  8. #28
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    Default Re: Big chunk of Antarctic ice shelf falling apart

    Quote Originally Posted by ArchRival View Post
    Dude, the Antarctic ice shelfs are already floating. Their melting wouldn't increase sea levels. And we can all do better with slightly higher temperatures. Less people will die from cardiovascular or respiratory diseases.
    Yes, the large ice sheets that are floating in the sea - if they melt won't cause sea levels to rise. But the majority of the ice shelves in the Antarctic are covering land. These large sea ice sheets create a buffer zone between the sea and the ice shelves on the land. If they break up and melt, there will no longer be a buffer zone between the sea and the ice that is sitting on the land and then the warmer sea will cause this large amount of ice on land to also melt, which will raise sea levels.

  9. #29

    Default Re: Big chunk of Antarctic ice shelf falling apart

    Quote Originally Posted by yamapi View Post
    More vaccination....there will be more tropical dieases..
    Dude, tropical dieseases are not linked so much to temperature as poverty. People die not because of temperature but because they couldn't afford healthcare.

  10. #30

    Default Re: Big chunk of Antarctic ice shelf falling apart

    Quote Originally Posted by gooseberry View Post
    Yes, the large ice sheets that are floating in the sea - if they melt won't cause sea levels to rise. But the majority of the ice shelves in the Antarctic are covering land. These large sea ice sheets create a buffer zone between the sea and the ice shelves on the land. If they break up and melt, there will no longer be a buffer zone between the sea and the ice that is sitting on the land and then the warmer sea will cause this large amount of ice on land to also melt, which will raise sea levels.
    Sorry for being slow...but are you saying if the ice shelfs on the sea are totally gone, there is nothing between the ice sheets on land and the sea, even though they will be at different elevations?

  11. #31

    Default Re: Big chunk of Antarctic ice shelf falling apart

    Thanks Sammy for that counter argument.

    But my concern is, even our leaders have even bought into this global warming thingy since late last year. I am sure our wisest have reviewed it and considered it something of concern, right?
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  12. #32
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    Default Re: Big chunk of Antarctic ice shelf falling apart

    Quote Originally Posted by ArchRival View Post
    Sorry for being slow...but are you saying if the ice shelfs on the sea are totally gone, there is nothing between the ice sheets on land and the sea, even though they will be at different elevations?
    Trying to find a good diagram to show you what I mean. See here for an example



    From the diagram, basically when the ice shelf melts, it exposes the ice sheets that are on the land (the ice shelves are basically extensions of the ice sheet out over the ocean). As they are more exposed, they will melt and this will raise sea levels.

  13. #33
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    Default Re: Big chunk of Antarctic ice shelf falling apart

    Hi gosseberry,

    Thank you for the clarification. However, I beg to differ. One thing that IPCC did not prove is that human activities are the main cause of global warming. I believe this whole global warming message is more that meets the eye. Even if we do try to reduce waste or use 'greener' products, is it going to change the weather at all? IIRC, no human beings can control nature. We can't even predict when a tornado / tsunami / earthquake is coming. However, that does not mean we can trash the earth anyhow.

    I think we all should learn to change our lifestyles by learning to reduce waste. That should be the main message. Poverty in poor countries are much more of great concern than this whole global warming saga.

    Hope no offence taken. Cheers!
    Last edited by hazmee; 29th March 2008 at 01:20 PM.

  14. #34

    Default Re: Big chunk of Antarctic ice shelf falling apart

    Quote Originally Posted by hazmee View Post
    Hi gosseberry,

    Thank you for the clarification. However, I beg to differ. One thing that IPCC did not prove is that human activities are the main cause of global warming. I believe this whole global warming message is more that meets the eye. Even if we do try to reduce waste or use 'greener' products, is it going to change the weather at all? IIRC, no human beings can control nature. We can't even predict when a tornado / tsunami / earthquake is coming. However, that does not mean we can trash the earth anyhow.

    I think we all should learn to change our lifestyles by learning to reduce waste. That should be the main message. Poverty in poor countries are much more of great concern than this whole global warming saga.

    Hope no offence taken. Cheers!
    you have a point there but i guess its differing opinions on whether you take a anthromorphic stand or whether you see humans as another species which might be extinct after a while (in earth's age anyway)

    poverty is actually easier to tackle if everyone wasn't so darn selfish IMHO. we have massive food wastage in rich countries which easily can be siphoned off to poor countries. but of cos it harms food prices if u give excess food aaway...

    hahah of cos if everyone thinks the same there's going to be no problems

  15. #35

    Default Re: Big chunk of Antarctic ice shelf falling apart

    Quote Originally Posted by gooseberry View Post
    Trying to find a good diagram to show you what I mean. See here for an example



    From the diagram, basically when the ice shelf melts, it exposes the ice sheets that are on the land (the ice shelves are basically extensions of the ice sheet out over the ocean). As they are more exposed, they will melt and this will raise sea levels.

    So based on this, is there any evidence that the recent ice shelf falling apart has raised sea levels??? I am sure someone is monitoring it.
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  16. #36
    Senior Member sammy888's Avatar
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    Default Re: Big chunk of Antarctic ice shelf falling apart

    Quote Originally Posted by ArchRival View Post
    Dude, the Antarctic ice shelfs are already floating. Their melting wouldn't increase sea levels. And we can all do better with slightly higher temperatures. Less people will die from cardiovascular or respiratory diseases.
    I think alot of people don't seem to know this scientific fact. The volume of ice melting is not equal to the volume of the ice. If you take a glass fill it with crush ice ( instead of cube so you occupy as much space in the glass/cup) then you let it melt...you will find that a cup full to the brim with ice will only fill up about half way of the cup.

    Also salt water ice and ice melting from fresh water also has difference density. Think about that....and find out more at your local library or science websites.

  17. #37

    Default Re: Big chunk of Antarctic ice shelf falling apart

    Quote Originally Posted by gooseberry View Post
    Trying to find a good diagram to show you what I mean. See here for an example



    From the diagram, basically when the ice shelf melts, it exposes the ice sheets that are on the land (the ice shelves are basically extensions of the ice sheet out over the ocean). As they are more exposed, they will melt and this will raise sea levels.
    I'm sorry but i still have to disagree in this context the melting of the ice shelf ultimately leads to increased sea levels.

    Please correct me if i'm wrong, but referring to your image, you are comparing ice carving on the right, which is from the floating ice shelf, to the ice carving on the left, which used to be on land.

    Which means you are saying sea level rises because of glaciers flowing out to the coastline and breaking off, like at the left of your image. This i absolutely agree.

    But consider this: glaciers and ice flow out to sea all the time. If there is an ice shelf at the coastline, the outflowing ice will push the existing shelf further out to sea, or flow over it. The volume of floating ice increases, which increases sea levels. Now, if the existing ice shelf has already melted, the outflowing ice simply flows out to sea, or melts at sea. Again increase in sea levels, but no difference from the case if an ice shelf was still present.

  18. #38
    Senior Member sammy888's Avatar
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    Default Re: Big chunk of Antarctic ice shelf falling apart

    Quote Originally Posted by gooseberry View Post
    You can take a look at an objective source of information relating to climage change from the IPCC (http://www.ipcc.ch/about/index.htm) - the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change setup by the UN - and their purpose is to

    "Its role is to assess on a comprehensive, objective, open and transparent basis the latest scientific, technical and socio-economic literature produced worldwide relevant to the understanding of the risk of human-induced climate change, its observed and projected impacts and options for adaptation and mitigation. IPCC reports should be neutral with respect to policy, although they need to deal objectively with policy relevant scientific, technical and socio economic factors. They should be of high scientific and technical standards, and aim to reflect a range of views, expertise and wide geographical coverage."

    You can take a look at their reports (the detailed ones or the summary for poicymakers) for more comprehensive objective information regarding climate change.
    Actually the IPCC has been the eye of the whole storm as their finding has been coming under some critism. The IPCC was first form in the UK by Margeret Thatcher when she wanted to see how viable it was to stop coal mining and use Nuclear reactor for power and what enviromental impact it would have on them and the earth as a whole. There are also scientists who support their finding and cause and endorsed it but as technology and more data came in some of the scientists now challenge their original findings and have even left the organisation. But IPCC refuse to take their names out of their earlier findings just to keep the validity of their findings. Now right or wrong...some are some questionable critism and claims made against them that they refuse to answer.

  19. #39
    Senior Member sammy888's Avatar
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    Default Re: Big chunk of Antarctic ice shelf falling apart

    Quote Originally Posted by Oly5050 View Post
    Thanks Sammy for that counter argument.

    But my concern is, even our leaders have even bought into this global warming thingy since late last year. I am sure our wisest have reviewed it and considered it something of concern, right?
    Yup valid point but as I feel lah...how many time have we seen countries that are on friendly pact always promoting to stand together to show solidarity. Your Iraq war with WMD...and when the **** hit the pan that there was not...see how each country that was support the USA's decision start to pull out? It's the US...how can you not agree with them if you depend on them economically...unless you have reason to do so.. So you can say and I am only speculating lah...better to join the majority or the strongest team first and then see what happen if really really not true then we pull out. This is just one of many historical situation.

    I am not saying there is no warming. Maybe there is but is it really us or is this just the way the universes is behaving? But look at it this way..if you pull in the human factor, what do you see and who are those you see would stand to gain? There are many what I call and have read about "earth killer" scenarios..if you choose to fight global warming...then what are they not putting as much into planetary asteriods for example. Well this is the "flavour of the month" Till something comes along that might tip the scale the other side..then it starts to get quiet again. And then it is off to the next big thing.

    I am not a scientist but even I could tell you the world will end.....one day. When? I don't know but if our sun starts to die..we will die with it. If there was a really bad solar flare from the sun and it reaches us..we will die. If some idiot decided to experiment with small poxs and it gets out..we will die too.

    As I said I could be totally wrong but even if I am..what are we actually doing to ensure that when it comes and it will happen progressively and not over night like the way some of them exaggearate it to happen ( oh by the way, you know the movie "day after tomorrow" that is friction...it will never happen like that...ice don't form like that so fast and all that Hollywood BS...there was as scientific programme that explained it ) ....Anyway..it is come so what is anyone going to go about it? You can cut this and that...go green this and that but what if the warming has noting to do with us..it is just the way the sun, the moon and earth is going through as a millenium cycle..then what? I am just saying we need to all be careful and not let this become something a fear monger can use against us, give them an excuse or lead us down a wrong path of action to survive it. Yes I do mean that.. Not prevent it but to survive it...if this is really what mother nature has "booked" for us. If we don't look at this neutrally from all sides and we rather be choosing sides...bad stuffs are going to happen. I am not talking mother natural here but what enforcment will come into effect in society. Just look what happen when AIDS was first discovered? This is recent right? But see what they say that all gays spread AIDS, people with HIV all die. PEople fear hiring people with AIDS, there was overkill on how to prevent it or to avoid it. The stigma that came with having HIV...eg. Imagine what this is like concerning global warming if we start to take side and not try to work together to solve it. So is it really about the environment or is this really about power and control. It's a fine line but witha very bad endings if we get it wrong.

  20. #40
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    Default Re: Big chunk of Antarctic ice shelf falling apart

    Quote Originally Posted by slaam View Post
    you have a point there but i guess its differing opinions on whether you take a anthromorphic stand or whether you see humans as another species which might be extinct after a while (in earth's age anyway)

    poverty is actually easier to tackle if everyone wasn't so darn selfish IMHO. we have massive food wastage in rich countries which easily can be siphoned off to poor countries. but of cos it harms food prices if u give excess food aaway...

    hahah of cos if everyone thinks the same there's going to be no problems
    SO maybe we should shoot and kill all the politicians and businessman hahahahahahah

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