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Thread: [News] 43-year-old Chinese man shot by police at Outram Park MRT

  1. #61
    Senior Member sammy888's Avatar
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    Default Re: [News] 43-year-old Chinese man shot by police at Outram Park MRT

    Quote Originally Posted by jsbn View Post
    The case was in the 1970s I believe.

    The officer involved was a PC on Sentry Duty and he was surprised and overwhelmed by 2 thugs in a cab when he was checking the cab out (the cabbie was held hostage as well). Multiple stab wounds and his service revolver was stolen.

    His body was found in the abandoned cab at Mt Vernon I believe.

    Unfortunately, more oft than not, public impression of the police usually is confined to what they see and what they THINK the ideal Policeman ought to be - the typical policeman in United States and Hollywood, breaking doors down with gusto or having Jackie Chan martial arts and taking out bad guys with a sucker punch.

    I guess those who had the benefit of serving NS in SPF, have very close relatives who are willing to share internal info and the real police work with u would know the details of real policing work in Singapore.

    Not that case...the one I refer to was more recent ...Feb 1989. Mirza Abdul Halim, a Malay police officer only 23 yrs old. A pretty nice chap and I had seen him about then as he is from the same division I served at G. This was the story:

    PC Mirza was on patrol duty when he and PC Chua Yew Hua gave chase to two suspects who had tried to break into a minimart and a hairdressing salon. The suspects ran in different directions, and the two officers pursued after each suspect alone. PC Mirza brought down one of the suspects, and engaged in a tussle with him on the ground during which the officer was repeatedly stabbed.

    The suspect managed to snatch the officer's revolver from his holster and shot him in the head. He went into a coma, and was given a rare field promotion to a rank of Corporal just before he died in hospital. PC Chua was also injured and hospitalised, but successfully arrested the other suspect. PC Mirza was the last police officer to die from firearms violence.

    This incident prompted ordering a a newer design of gun holster to make it alot more snatch-proof and firing proof while the revolver remains holstered, and officers were advised against splitting up when pursuing suspects for their personal safety. So what is the best scenario is choose the weaker of the two and both officers chase him down and let the other one go. Get one...sooner or later you will get the other.

    If you look at the policeman's holster today, it is a newer revolver hoslter you see with the flip over loop incorporated after that. This makes it hard for some one to not only snatch the revolver out of the holster but it cover the trigger completely so in a struggle, so long as the revolver remains in the holster, no firing of a round is possible. Previoulsy, it was just a loop over with a clip-on button that guard abeit weakly the firing pin from being corked back.

    Now we are already starting to see the newer revolver with the laser sight. And it is not just for aiming....this is a mean to deter baddies from proceeding with attacking. It has been shown to work in the States. As having a laser dot painted on your body, you can say if the cop fires, you are as good as dead or at least injure as you know the revolver is aiming at you. Mentally, that is use to make you think twice about attacking the police or anyone nearby. So abit more Police trivia there lah.
    Last edited by sammy888; 7th March 2008 at 09:19 PM.

  2. #62

    Default Re: [News] 43-year-old Chinese man shot by police at Outram Park MRT

    Quote Originally Posted by kynoe View Post
    we all guys who been through BMT learnt unarmed combat. Supposedly you were on guard duty and someone charge at you with a blade. Would you attempt to disarm him with your boynet?

    of course I will shoot him la.
    I will give him a butt stroke ... not stroking his butt hor ... I not 302 ...

  3. #63

    Default Re: [News] 43-year-old Chinese man shot by police at Outram Park MRT

    Quote Originally Posted by jsbn View Post
    My sensei said that too. Unless u are 120% confident of taking him down without killing him, don't do it. That is Aikido - to overwhelm & overpower without causing undue hurt to both.

    Anyway, easier said than done since there are many moves which leaves the potential to seriously break the opponent's arm, fingers or even snap the neck.

    Ppl who don't practice martial arts will simply say, "U can kill him outright u don't want. Merely pin him down only. Stupid."

    Its usually after practicing it den most will realise the meaning behind it.
    Vaguely remember that in aikido, you "force" the person to a position and hold him in a lock tt if he move further, he risk breaking his own arms and such.

    1 2 kill outright, the correct blow or kick to the correct place would be enough. No need to learn martial arts ...

  4. #64
    Senior Member xtemujin's Avatar
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    Arrow Re: [News] 43-year-old Chinese man shot by police at Outram Park MRT

    Police reveal identity of suspect shot dead at Outram MRT station
    By Chew Wui Lynn, Channel NewsAsia | Posted: 07 March 2008 1704 hrs

    SINGAPORE: The identity of the knife-wielding man shot dead by the police on Thursday has been revealed.

    He was 43-year-old Lim Bock Song, who had apparently stabbed his drinking buddy to death just before escaping to Outram Park MRT station.

    Family and friends of both men were at the Singapore General Hospital mortuary on Friday morning.

    Relatives of the victim, 51-year-old Tan Ah Chang, said there were no plans for a wake, while family and friends of Mr Lim would not speak to the media.

    The police said Mr Lim was shot because he had charged at two officers with a knife.

    Investigations on this case are in progress.


    - CNA/so

    http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stori...333530/1/.html

  5. #65

    Default Re: [News] 43-year-old Chinese man shot by police at Outram Park MRT

    Quote Originally Posted by Old Man Lee View Post
    Our sympathies should go out to the young man who discharges his gun. He will live forever in the guilt of shooting to death a fellow human being.
    Feeling guilty.

    If I were the guy who pulled the trigger, I would be patting myself on the shoulder telling myself that my mom and dad still has a son to feed them.

  6. #66
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    Default Re: [News] 43-year-old Chinese man shot by police at Outram Park MRT

    Quote Originally Posted by paradigm View Post
    Vaguely remember that in aikido, you "force" the person to a position and hold him in a lock tt if he move further, he risk breaking his own arms and such.

    1 2 kill outright, the correct blow or kick to the correct place would be enough. No need to learn martial arts ...
    easier said then done...

  7. #67

    Default Re: [News] 43-year-old Chinese man shot by police at Outram Park MRT

    Quote Originally Posted by Parchiao View Post
    Feeling guilty.

    If I were the guy who pulled the trigger, I would be patting myself on the shoulder telling myself that my mom and dad still has a son to feed them.
    It's a sh*tty deal, but someone's gotta stand up on our behalf and do it. There are so many things and aspects to dwell on. But I'd rather dwell on his courage that he showed, instead of guilt.

    I sure as hell hope our elite SAF forces won't have to do "Oh sh*t, I pulled the trigger and put someone down just now. I'm sooo bad... Oh Mommy, how should I face life?? Oh Daddy, should I do 100 hail Mary's to cleanse it???"

    Oh bloody please.... That's why they're at the front line, and we're here whining.

  8. #68

    Default Re: [News] 43-year-old Chinese man shot by police at Outram Park MRT

    Did he ever consider shooting the leg(thigh) of the offender to stop his aggression?

  9. #69
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    Default Re: [News] 43-year-old Chinese man shot by police at Outram Park MRT

    It is justifiable to shoot the armed attacker who looked drunk and not in control of himself, with a knife in hand.
    I would too. This is not about being cruel or not.

    But since I am not a top gun, I would be a bit nervous and frankly don't have the time to debate with myself whether it is better to shoot him in the leg or elsewhere. Training takes over and reflex action just makes us shoot where we were trained to. Normally it is the body where there is a better chance of hitting something.

    Neither am I such a good shooter that I can place the shot accurately at the legs of an on-rushing man. What if it misses - very high chance of missing, and the bullet ricochets off the floor to hit some other member of public standing behind and near to the attacker?

  10. #70

    Default Re: [News] 43-year-old Chinese man shot by police at Outram Park MRT

    Quote Originally Posted by kenso View Post
    Did he ever consider shooting the leg(thigh) of the offender to stop his aggression?
    Yeah, you're right, he most definitely should have!!! Arnold Schwarzenegger did in Terminator 2, so did Eddie Murphy in Another 48 Hours. I blame it on our Police Force having to spend more time at work and having less time watching movies.

  11. #71
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    Default Re: [News] 43-year-old Chinese man shot by police at Outram Park MRT

    Quote Originally Posted by paradigm View Post
    Vaguely remember that in aikido, you "force" the person to a position and hold him in a lock tt if he move further, he risk breaking his own arms and such.

    1 2 kill outright, the correct blow or kick to the correct place would be enough. No need to learn martial arts ...
    Backthrust to the chest.
    1 solid punch to the solar plexus.
    Side kick to the jaw.
    Upper cut punch to the jaw.
    Straight punch to the nose.
    Last edited by jsbn; 8th March 2008 at 01:58 PM.

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    Default Re: [News] 43-year-old Chinese man shot by police at Outram Park MRT

    Quote Originally Posted by kenso View Post
    Did he ever consider shooting the leg(thigh) of the offender to stop his aggression?
    Ok, I'm the bad guy know. Cornered and wielding a 10cm knife. U tell me to freeze or else. In a desperate attempt to escape, I lung at u suddenly with my knife.

    Now, answer me. Will u aim for my thigh or leg or would u just pull ur revolver and fire at point-blank range?

    Dun think, just answer me straight away.

    P/S: Dun have to post ur answer here, we all know what its gonna be.

  13. #73

    Default Re: [News] 43-year-old Chinese man shot by police at Outram Park MRT

    Quote Originally Posted by jsbn View Post
    Ok, I'm the bad guy know. Cornered and wielding a 10cm knife. U tell me to freeze or else. In a desperate attempt to escape, I lung at u suddenly with my knife.

    Now, answer me. Will u aim for my thigh or leg or would u just pull ur revolver and fire at point-blank range?

    Dun think, just answer me straight away.

    P/S: Dun have to post ur answer here, we all know what its gonna be.


    I'll grab his bolls ...

  14. #74

    Default Re: [News] 43-year-old Chinese man shot by police at Outram Park MRT

    Quote Originally Posted by kenso View Post
    Did he ever consider shooting the leg(thigh) of the offender to stop his aggression?
    If you were him, would you have considered "what if I miss?"

    it is easier to be an armchair critic then being put on the hot-chair ...

  15. #75

    Default Re: [News] 43-year-old Chinese man shot by police at Outram Park MRT

    Quote Originally Posted by Gunbucker View Post
    Yeah, you're right, he most definitely should have!!! Arnold Schwarzenegger did in Terminator 2, so did Eddie Murphy in Another 48 Hours. I blame it on our Police Force having to spend more time at work and having less time watching movies.
    think tt SPF should invest in state-of the-art arcade to shoot spiders off the walls in 10 different speed settings (levels)... that would train them in marksmanship ...


  16. #76

    Default Re: [News] 43-year-old Chinese man shot by police at Outram Park MRT

    Quote Originally Posted by caterpillai View Post
    I'll grab his bolls ...
    BOY!!! u gotta be very fast man! ... remember while attempting to bend down and grab, you are exposing your entire back to his knife ... not forgetting that your head is nearer his body (and knife) and thus he can stab you in the throat b4 u touch his b*** ...

    and that reaching down, even from the side, his hand plus the knife has a longer reach to most of your upper body ... ie before you grab his b***, you most likely would hv been stabbed or cut ...

    Result: Dead in attempt ....

    BOI: Stupid bugger to attempt that stunt ...

  17. #77

    Smile Re: [News] 43-year-old Chinese man shot by police at Outram Park MRT

    without training under competent instruction, you think one can effectively execute it when you need it to protect yourself against the assailant? physical and mental state not taken into account yet.

    knowing it(paper knowledge) AND training and executing it effectively are worlds' apart.

    Quote Originally Posted by paradigm View Post
    Vaguely remember that in aikido, you "force" the person to a position and hold him in a lock tt if he move further, he risk breaking his own arms and such.

    1 2 kill outright, the correct blow or kick to the correct place would be enough. No need to learn martial arts ...

  18. #78

    Default Re: [News] 43-year-old Chinese man shot by police at Outram Park MRT

    Quote Originally Posted by lovells19 View Post
    easier said then done...
    better said than done ...


    Quote Originally Posted by reachme2003 View Post
    without training under competent instruction, you think one can effectively execute it when you need it to protect yourself against the assailant? physical and mental state not taken into account yet.

    knowing it(paper knowledge) AND training and executing it effectively are worlds' apart.
    think tt you missed my point ... martial arts is not meant to learn how to kill ... "competent instruction giver" probably would recommend against "executing effectively" anyway ...

    but then again, the correct blow or kick to the correct place does leave a person dead if you care to find out ... usually u need to use a lot of force ...

  19. #79
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    Default Re: [News] 43-year-old Chinese man shot by police at Outram Park MRT

    Dun have to.

    Ur assailant rushing towards u (presumably unarmed), the force of the Backthrust don't have to be very strong since it will be his own strength rebounding on his chest.

    That will kill him.

  20. #80
    Senior Member sammy888's Avatar
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    Default Re: [News] 43-year-old Chinese man shot by police at Outram Park MRT

    Quote Originally Posted by kenso View Post
    Did he ever consider shooting the leg(thigh) of the offender to stop his aggression?
    hehe..again...we see movie too much lah. A bullet to the leg does not always would mean you have immobilised him. You have to have shot his is leg bone, breaking it to stop him from continuing moving forward at you. If the confrontation took place less then 25m. A running pace towards will take less then 2 seconds to reach you. How much time have you got to aim and shot a moving leg and hit the bone and not just cause a flesh wound and hit some part of his leg muscle.

    Also, we are arm with .38 lead bullets which tend to soften and spread out. It's effectiveness at killing is not as high as say a .44 magnum and the rounds are not steel caps or hollow point. It will cause alot of damage but might not be enough to shatter a bone if it hits it. And shooting his leg also does not mean he would not die. Surf the net and you will find out that you need to hit or cut a person in very specific places to kill him/her. For example if the police shot his thigh and burst his main artery with no immediate medical means, he will bleed out and die in less then 30 mins if I am not wrong... maybe quicker. But a bullet to the lung or stomach will be painful but you will survive.

    Case in point. Anyone know the rap singer called 50 cents? He was a freakingt drug dealer formerly and he was shot in multiple places by some rival gang but he survived the attack. This is not some god helped him...this is biology.

    I dare say, the policeman who shot him might not have been to kill him. He shot at the only place that would be easier to hit that is the body but unfortunate or not...he hit a vital part of his body that resulting in killing him. I know for a fact it is not that easy to shot our revolver. I am a marksman where I get money for every shooting test each year of my reservist. Not that easy to earn that money for most. We have to run up to a platform and then fire off a specific number of rounds at a target from 23m to 9m. And there are speed timing (secs) to do so too or you lose the chance to finish each portion of the test. And our revolver are what you call double action meaning you need to pull the trigger back to **** and there is a second click you feel as you pull the trigger further that will release the firing pin to fire the bullet. It is not that easy to shoot with our kind of revolver unlike say a semi auto or a Glock automatic pistol with a light trigger action. The trigger is heavy..firing 50 rounds during our test can leave some of my unit member with tired fingers. This is what you have o add into the scenario lah. It is not until you are faced with a quick situation like this..it is hard for you to think and react.

    Now that it is over...it is easy to speculate but I can tell you ...any officers will understand what this officer is going thru and wonder not want to trade place with him. No Police officer I know of going on duty everyday hoping to get the chance to shoot some one. There maybe officers who might even be relutant to do if they were in that officer's shoe and might end up paying with his life instead...then what?

    While some of you might sympatise with the killed knief wielding man but have you considered that he murdered someone earlier and run away? What about that person he killed? Is he a breadwinner and have a family to feed but can't now. If you can envision that on the police officer ( telling myself that my mom and dad still has a son to feed them) then why not the earlier murdered man? We all live a life of choices. Whatever choice you make with it...you face the good it brings or the bad. The knief wielding man...got what he deserve from the action he took. He had a choice.
    Last edited by sammy888; 8th March 2008 at 05:09 PM. Reason: typo

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