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Thread: [News] 43-year-old Chinese man shot by police at Outram Park MRT

  1. #41
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    Default Re: [News] 43-year-old Chinese man shot by police at Outram Park MRT

    Dress our cops up like robo cop

    then he can apply his martial art without firing the gun at a man welding a 15cm knife,

    And 10cm knife is enough to stab and kill you.

    Martial art is more likely to build will power and physical fitness rather then street fighting.
    Street Fighting and Martial Art are not the same

  2. #42
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    Default Re: [News] 43-year-old Chinese man shot by police at Outram Park MRT

    Quote Originally Posted by Verticoastro View Post
    I rather run away and let that fella chase me.... unless I'm really trapped at the corner... then the martial art / unarm combat might take the chance... sure get a few slash and cuts.... do you know... it take about two to more person to restraint an aggressive subject... furthermore the officers sure get a some punches and kicks from the subject....

    we never know if that person are well verse with knife techniques... there's some kind of art with knife where the person know where's the vital point to poke or slash to drain lot of blood so that he can weaken his opponent and kill that person faster....
    Just want to add to it....

    Okay maybe I am just trying to get this off my chest after reading about the stuff here. So consider this my rant or just dismiss this as another silly bit from me.

    All this talk about kung fu fighting and unarm combat. How many here have ever done it? I don't mean sparring with your friend or in your computer game. I was into karate and took it at the Police Academy Dojo during my NS days. Yes there is some lesson taught to all officers. But other then basics and some regulated structure course handed down by the training officers at the academy, anything more was an interest thus the extra lesson on my part. Same goes for the regular officers too.

    Even for the regular police officer, you don't attend self defence class every week or month. There are courses for regular officers and there are refresher classes for unarm combat but other then that..how many officers will go off on their own to take up additional class out of their own pocket or real interest or have the time?

    The new baton with the retractable shaft and a 90 degree handle protruding from the side of it that look like the old japanese wooden weapon you see them using? Not all will get to carry this. You need to be trained and certified in order to carry one...( fail a refresher course and you stop carrying it till you pass it again) if not you only get the regular retractable steel baton. Okay I am not going to give up too much details here as it might be sensitive info but suffice to say....if you were to pick only those who has the best potential to be a super capable fighter to be a policeman then you will find that our Police force will be reduced to a small group of people heh. And even a capable policeman with the right defensive move can loose the fight to a criminal.

    Forget all those stylish looking choreograph Jackie Chan movie BS..in a real fight..you don't get second chances or do multiple reshoot to get the fight scene right. When you get attack and you really want to hurt the guy or get away...there is no rule to how you will fight. I had my share of this during my 2.5 yrs in the Police. I got sucker punched, shoved against wall or to the floor, clawed with finger nails, torn my uniforms, bottles and even "gala pole" thrown at me from top of flats which luckily missed to whatever object they can get their hands on....etc.

    I recall one case which involved a 1.65m tall commando recruit who went AWOL and was seen sniffing glue with a body rip with muscles. It took 5 policemen to subdue him at a HDB flat staircase. I am 6 ft tall...and the other 4 guys are not small too. He was grabbing here and there and what every policemen will tell you he fear is a fight or struggle at close range and the guy you are struggling with is try to grab your gun or baton from you. Well this half whacked out glue sniffing commando grabbed the handcuff I was trying to use on him. His fist was so strong, I was not even able to pry his fist open to take the handcuff from him. It took us a good 10mins to pin him down ( all 5 of us on top of him holding on to all his limbs so he was immobilised ) against the staircase and handcuff him... we still have to sit on top of him till we could get a vehicle to come put him inside. No fighting skill would have helped you there...it is just wild brute force. He was swing his fists and legs all over trying to hit something. Stone as he was with glue he still pretty good and fast on his feet. He connect with some of his blow on us. And here we are in the public eye..not able to loose our cool and go to town on him for hitting us. All this in a short period of time. This is what thinking on your feet is like some times. The call was initiatly.."man sniffing glue at HDB flat staircase" Sounds not too dangerous yes?

    All those kung fu stances goes out the damn windows when you see a guy coming at you with fist, leg or some object. What are you going to do? I can tell you many more stories like that that happened and I am sure those working as policemen in here will testify to that too. Just like you can learn some fighting skill...so do people of the general public and yes...the baddies too.

    Case in point if you want to talk about martial art and all those power stances..etc. Anyone see Ultimate Fighters on Cable or TV? They look really good when they pose for the camera but once they start fighting...look like two man trying to rape each other..so much grabbing and holding...funny looking punches, wild kicks, tripping over each other, rolling into a ball on the floor head over heels. heheh...does that look like cool moves fighting in a movie? It is just dirty fighting. They would use their teeth to bite you like a girl if they have too hehe... no not the fighters in the Ultimate Fighter..I mean in real life situation. Yup...I got bitten by a guy when arresting him in a struggle. So before anyone judge if our pollicemen can get the job done or fully capable? Well he/she is still a human being. I am sure he/she will try not just for you but for themselves too at that very moment a life endangering situation blows up. They have to as at that very moment they encounter some baddies like that, it does not alway appear like it will turn violent. It usually starts very innocent and without warning.

    For me that was a righteous shooting but I am sure that officer is going through hell and I am not saying suffering mental anguish in his mind (though I am sure he will) but from the interrogations he will go thru. He will be investigated and question many many times by difference people to acertain and confirm that the shooting was the right move.

    Any officers here will tell you, using the gun is the last thing they will do. There are so many rules, restiction and regulations pertaining to when and how you can or can't not use the gun that I am certain till today, alot of them if they can, they would rather not draw that gun from the armoury to go on patrol. I think a number of them in the force still remember or was told the story of how one of our officer died when he struggled to apprehend a criminal and his gun was grabbed from him and shot him dead with it.

    Give abit more thought to our folks in blue ...regular or PNS... it is not always as easy as it seem. I am not speaking on their behalf but this was what I experienced serving proudly with them. Sure there are some stuff I am not happy about with the organisation (or the MIW hehehe) in some ways but overall, we do have good peoples doing their job there.

  3. #43
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    Default Re: [News] 43-year-old Chinese man shot by police at Outram Park MRT

    I'm not a police officer, but I wholly agree with sammy. Also, got people suggest shooting at leg or arm. IMHO even if the suspect was not moving also you would need time to aim. Miss how?

  4. #44
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    Default Re: [News] 43-year-old Chinese man shot by police at Outram Park MRT

    Quote Originally Posted by snowspeeder View Post
    The officer did the right thing. Shoot to eliminate the threat for the safety of everyone else.
    Agree
    I hope that they will do the same thing when they manage to find Mas Selamat Kastari, armed or unarmed

    My Two Cents.

  5. #45

    Default Re: [News] 43-year-old Chinese man shot by police at Outram Park MRT

    Quote Originally Posted by raincool2005 View Post
    by right, he should shoot him in the leg first lah..
    not everyone is marksman and even marksman at close range w a rapidly moving target cannot shoot arms or legs with certainty of hitting (not forgetting that if you miss, the bullet might hit someone else or carom off walls and ground and hit an innocent bystander). You would appreciate what the police did if you are standing behind the guy ... afterall, a bullet can travel pretty far ..

    At such close range, to get the guy to stop, you hit what u cannot miss, the Body ... if he dies from it, well, its the cost against the protection of the public ... even if the bullet exit the body, the impact on the next guy is lesser ...

  6. #46

    Default Re: [News] 43-year-old Chinese man shot by police at Outram Park MRT

    Our sympathies should go out to the young man who discharges his gun. He will live forever in the guilt of shooting to death a fellow human being.


    Quote Originally Posted by xtemujin View Post
    43-year-old man shot by police at Outram Park MRT
    Posted: 06 March 2008 1655 hrs

    SINGAPORE : A 43-year-old Chinese man was shot dead by a police officer at Outram MRT on Thursday.

    Police said he had charged aggressively with a knife at the officer who approached him.

    The man fitted the description of a suspect in a stabbing incident at Block 1 Jalan Kukoh.

    Earlier in the day, a 52-year-old Chinese man was stabbed to death at the hawker centre at about 2.45pm.

    Two officers at Outram MRT then spotted the suspect near the North-East Line platform.

    When they approached him, the suspect took out a knife from his bag and charged at one of the officers.

    Police said the officer discharged a single round at close range, hitting the suspect in the chest.

    Commander Central Police Division, Superintendent Lau Peet Meng, said, "The armed and dangerous suspect approached my officers in a threatening manner at close proximity. In the circumstances, considering that he was suspected to have just killed another man, the officer had no choice but to open fire."

    Investigations are ongoing. - CNA/ch

    http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stori...333299/1/.html

  7. #47
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    Default Re: [News] 43-year-old Chinese man shot by police at Outram Park MRT

    heard from radio that the deceased had a troubled past life...


  8. #48

    Default Re: [News] 43-year-old Chinese man shot by police at Outram Park MRT

    Quote Originally Posted by sammy888 View Post
    Just want to add to it....

    Okay maybe I am just trying to get this off my chest after reading about the stuff here. So consider this my rant or just dismiss this as another silly bit from me.

    All this talk about kung fu fighting and unarm combat. How many here have ever done it? I don't mean sparring with your friend or in your computer game. I was into karate and took it at the Police Academy Dojo during my NS days. Yes there is some lesson taught to all officers. But other then basics and some regulated structure course handed down by the training officers at the academy, anything more was an interest thus the extra lesson on my part. Same goes for the regular officers too.

    Even for the regular police officer, you don't attend self defence class every week or month. There are courses for regular officers and there are refresher classes for unarm combat but other then that..how many officers will go off on their own to take up additional class out of their own pocket or real interest or have the time?

    The new baton with the retractable shaft and a 90 degree handle protruding from the side of it that look like the old japanese wooden weapon you see them using? Not all will get to carry this. You need to be trained and certified in order to carry one...( fail a refresher course and you stop carrying it till you pass it again) if not you only get the regular retractable steel baton. Okay I am not going to give up too much details here as it might be sensitive info but suffice to say....if you were to pick only those who has the best potential to be a super capable fighter to be a policeman then you will find that our Police force will be reduced to a small group of people heh. And even a capable policeman with the right defensive move can loose the fight to a criminal.

    Forget all those stylish looking choreograph Jackie Chan movie BS..in a real fight..you don't get second chances or do multiple reshoot to get the fight scene right. When you get attack and you really want to hurt the guy or get away...there is no rule to how you will fight. I had my share of this during my 2.5 yrs in the Police. I got sucker punched, shoved against wall or to the floor, clawed with finger nails, torn my uniforms, bottles and even "gala pole" thrown at me from top of flats which luckily missed to whatever object they can get their hands on....etc.

    I recall one case which involved a 1.65m tall commando recruit who went AWOL and was seen sniffing glue with a body rip with muscles. It took 5 policemen to subdue him at a HDB flat staircase. I am 6 ft tall...and the other 4 guys are not small too. He was grabbing here and there and what every policemen will tell you he fear is a fight or struggle at close range and the guy you are struggling with is try to grab your gun or baton from you. Well this half whacked out glue sniffing commando grabbed the handcuff I was trying to use on him. His fist was so strong, I was not even able to pry his fist open to take the handcuff from him. It took us a good 10mins to pin him down ( all 5 of us on top of him holding on to all his limbs so he was immobilised ) against the staircase and handcuff him... we still have to sit on top of him till we could get a vehicle to come put him inside. No fighting skill would have helped you there...it is just wild brute force. He was swing his fists and legs all over trying to hit something. Stone as he was with glue he still pretty good and fast on his feet. He connect with some of his blow on us. And here we are in the public eye..not able to loose our cool and go to town on him for hitting us. All this in a short period of time. This is what thinking on your feet is like some times. The call was initiatly.."man sniffing glue at HDB flat staircase" Sounds not too dangerous yes?

    All those kung fu stances goes out the damn windows when you see a guy coming at you with fist, leg or some object. What are you going to do? I can tell you many more stories like that that happened and I am sure those working as policemen in here will testify to that too. Just like you can learn some fighting skill...so do people of the general public and yes...the baddies too.

    Case in point if you want to talk about martial art and all those power stances..etc. Anyone see Ultimate Fighters on Cable or TV? They look really good when they pose for the camera but once they start fighting...look like two man trying to rape each other..so much grabbing and holding...funny looking punches, wild kicks, tripping over each other, rolling into a ball on the floor head over heels. heheh...does that look like cool moves fighting in a movie? It is just dirty fighting. They would use their teeth to bite you like a girl if they have too hehe... no not the fighters in the Ultimate Fighter..I mean in real life situation. Yup...I got bitten by a guy when arresting him in a struggle. So before anyone judge if our pollicemen can get the job done or fully capable? Well he/she is still a human being. I am sure he/she will try not just for you but for themselves too at that very moment a life endangering situation blows up. They have to as at that very moment they encounter some baddies like that, it does not alway appear like it will turn violent. It usually starts very innocent and without warning.

    For me that was a righteous shooting but I am sure that officer is going through hell and I am not saying suffering mental anguish in his mind (though I am sure he will) but from the interrogations he will go thru. He will be investigated and question many many times by difference people to acertain and confirm that the shooting was the right move.

    Any officers here will tell you, using the gun is the last thing they will do. There are so many rules, restiction and regulations pertaining to when and how you can or can't not use the gun that I am certain till today, alot of them if they can, they would rather not draw that gun from the armoury to go on patrol. I think a number of them in the force still remember or was told the story of how one of our officer died when he struggled to apprehend a criminal and his gun was grabbed from him and shot him dead with it.

    Give abit more thought to our folks in blue ...regular or PNS... it is not always as easy as it seem. I am not speaking on their behalf but this was what I experienced serving proudly with them. Sure there are some stuff I am not happy about with the organisation (or the MIW hehehe) in some ways but overall, we do have good peoples doing their job there.
    yea man its so amazing to see how many people think what they see in the movies is as real as real life can be...

  9. #49

    Default Re: [News] 43-year-old Chinese man shot by police at Outram Park MRT

    Yeah, agree with Old Man Lee here. It is not easy to cope with killing.

    Sometimes not only killing, even just a little kaypoh can make you guilty forever. I have a friend who is a social worker. Once she saw a middle-aged guy doing weed at the staircase of a flat. So she immediately called the cops and they apprehended him. But it was only after her wife jumped down 12 storeys that she realized this guy lived two floors below her and was the sole breadwinner of his family - a slightly mentally-ill wife and two schooling young sons. His wife had thought that his husband had died when in fact he was only serving a slight jail term for stealing. She wanted to end her own life with him. So who's right and who's wrong? I prefer to do nothing. Sometimes we have to weigh the consequences in our mind first before we dial 999. You might end up destroying a whole family.

    I once got robbed by a chap in UK. I chased him till the back of my hostel building and a big guy pounced on him just in time. I got back my wallet, but the big guy wanted to hand him over to my hostel security and call the bobbies. I said no and in the end I gave the robber 10 pounds to get himself some medication for his wounds. The big guy was not hurt, but I gave him a treat at Tesco cafe a few days later, because he happened to be my friend's friend. LOL.

  10. #50

    Default Re: [News] 43-year-old Chinese man shot by police at Outram Park MRT

    Quote Originally Posted by flipfreak View Post
    he probably could have if he using the 1d mk iii but maybe will be oof though.
    LOLOLOL!!!


  11. #51

    Default Re: [News] 43-year-old Chinese man shot by police at Outram Park MRT

    While I'm not totally against use of firearms in this case. I'm just wondering a couple of unknowns..

    Firstly, since the police already knows that the suspect had killed someone earlier, would they have a further stand-off distance in approaching the suspect or having a totally different approach method?

    Secondly, had precautions been taken to minimise possible collateral injuries of the public before confrontation?

    From the little that was released, I'm not sure if it's a "quick draw" situation.
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  12. #52

    Default Re: [News] 43-year-old Chinese man shot by police at Outram Park MRT

    we all guys who been through BMT learnt unarmed combat. Supposedly you were on guard duty and someone charge at you with a blade. Would you attempt to disarm him with your boynet?

    of course I will shoot him la.

  13. #53

    Default Re: [News] 43-year-old Chinese man shot by police at Outram Park MRT

    Quote Originally Posted by CYRN View Post
    While I'm not totally against use of firearms in this case. I'm just wondering a couple of unknowns..

    Firstly, since the police already knows that the suspect had killed someone earlier, would they have a further stand-off distance in approaching the suspect or having a totally different approach method?

    Secondly, had precautions been taken to minimise possible collateral injuries of the public before confrontation?

    From the little that was released, I'm not sure if it's a "quick draw" situation.
    I'm sure these are nice things to ponder on.

    But as the Police Force that is the primary line of defense for us mere mortals, I prefer the message to be simple to future would-be perpetrators: You approach the police with a weapon, you'll be responded with deadly force.

  14. #54

    Default Re: [News] 43-year-old Chinese man shot by police at Outram Park MRT

    Quote Originally Posted by Gunbucker View Post
    I'm sure these are nice things to ponder on.

    But as the Police Force that is the primary line of defense for us mere mortals, I prefer the message to be simple to future would-be perpetrators: You approach the police with a weapon, you'll be responded with deadly force.
    I don't want to be in a position when I get shot for shooting birds with my 400mm.
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  15. #55

    Default Re: [News] 43-year-old Chinese man shot by police at Outram Park MRT

    Quote Originally Posted by CYRN View Post
    I don't want to be in a position when I get shot for shooting birds with my 400mm.
    Just make sure your lens hood isn't sharp

  16. #56
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    Default Re: [News] 43-year-old Chinese man shot by police at Outram Park MRT

    Quote Originally Posted by paradigm View Post
    how come all the Masters say the same thing? Mine said same thing also ... u all got a guide book and ISOs to follow is it?

    jus kidding ... guess that its those who dunno martial arts think tt it can work wonders in all circumstances ...
    My sensei said that too. Unless u are 120% confident of taking him down without killing him, don't do it. That is Aikido - to overwhelm & overpower without causing undue hurt to both.

    Anyway, easier said than done since there are many moves which leaves the potential to seriously break the opponent's arm, fingers or even snap the neck.

    Ppl who don't practice martial arts will simply say, "U can kill him outright u don't want. Merely pin him down only. Stupid."

    Its usually after practicing it den most will realise the meaning behind it.

  17. #57
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    Default Re: [News] 43-year-old Chinese man shot by police at Outram Park MRT

    Quote Originally Posted by sammy888 View Post
    I think a number of them in the force still remember or was told the story of how one of our officer died when he struggled to apprehend a criminal and his gun was grabbed from him and shot him dead with it.
    The case was in the 1970s I believe.

    The officer involved was a PC on Sentry Duty and he was surprised and overwhelmed by 2 thugs in a cab when he was checking the cab out (the cabbie was held hostage as well). Multiple stab wounds and his service revolver was stolen.

    His body was found in the abandoned cab at Mt Vernon I believe.

    Unfortunately, more oft than not, public impression of the police usually is confined to what they see and what they THINK the ideal Policeman ought to be - the typical policeman in United States and Hollywood, breaking doors down with gusto or having Jackie Chan martial arts and taking out bad guys with a sucker punch.

    I guess those who had the benefit of serving NS in SPF, have very close relatives who are willing to share internal info and the real police work with u would know the details of real policing work in Singapore.

  18. #58
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    Default Re: [News] 43-year-old Chinese man shot by police at Outram Park MRT

    Quote Originally Posted by voldisinarta View Post
    Agree
    I hope that they will do the same thing when they manage to find Mas Selamat Kastari, armed or unarmed

    My Two Cents.
    If Mas Selamat's unarmed, had his 2 hands raised to show surrender, the arresting officer pulls his revolver out at point-blank range and lets go 1 round, he can be charged for murder.

  19. #59
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    Default Re: [News] 43-year-old Chinese man shot by police at Outram Park MRT

    Quote Originally Posted by Gunbucker View Post
    I'm sure these are nice things to ponder on.

    But as the Police Force that is the primary line of defense for us mere mortals, I prefer the message to be simple to future would-be perpetrators: You approach the police with a weapon, you'll be responded with deadly force.
    Agreed 2 thumbs up.

    There's no room for any criminal or would-be criminal who think that they can get a chance out of life by trying to knife or shoot their way thru a police chase.

    Show the gun, Police, SOC, Gurkhas will mow u down (similar to the infamous case of Morgan Teo Kidnap King in the 50s).

  20. #60

    Default Re: [News] 43-year-old Chinese man shot by police at Outram Park MRT

    Quote Originally Posted by Gunbucker View Post
    Just make sure your lens hood isn't sharp
    sadly..even my photos are not sharp.


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