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Thread: Which colour space to work with?

  1. #1

    Default Which colour space to work with?

    A slightly more advanced question so i decided to ask here in the General Discussion forum instead.


    Adobe Photoshop seems to want, and ONLY ever want to work in sRGB color management mode. When it edits the picture in that mode, the colours look very different to what you see on most picture viewing programs. Such as acdsee and internet explorer.

    The problem here is.. when i edit pictures in Adobe Photoshop, they look great there - but when i save it, then view it in acdsee/internet explorer, the picture comes out looking very different. The colours must have been interpreted differently to the way photoshop does.

    I'm most pendantic about colours, and i have to make sure the colours are viewed EXACTLY the way it was intended to be. There will always be SOME degree of differences (different calibrated monitors and image viewing programs) but in this case the difference is remarkably wide.

    After some playing around in photoshop i worked out a way on how to work without this sRGB mode, so that it's more of a "What you see is what you get" type of thing. Even though the colours arn't as nice without sRGB.. but ultimately it is MOST important to edit and manipulate with the image EXACTLY as the way it's going to viewed by everyone else.

    So my question is, is this right? Is everybody else viewing the picture in a different mode? Or should i continue to work in sRGB? Photoshop really dosn't seem to like working without it. So i'm being alittle bit cautious.

    Also, a picture that has great colours in sRGB mode, can look aweful with the other (i don't know what it's called - naked?) colour space. And it's the same vice versa, it's not easy to make the colours look good on BOTH modes. So one has to be picked..

    I just want to make sure that the pictures are viewed the way it was meant to be.

    Please use simple language to answer, i'm not too technically familiar with this colour space business in the first place. Which is why i'm asking you here!


    Thanks in advance,

  2. #2

  3. #3

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    Thanks Still abit confuzzling tho i bookmarked it for when i'm not so tired!


    Thanks

  4. #4
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    Sigh,
    The whole sordid problem is because apps and devices don't understand color space.

    What makes it worse, even many of those "professional" people who operates the machine doesn't understand it...

    You can use ANY colorspace you want, when manipulating images. The issue is when you convert to the output (screen or print) device. Note that if you choose a too big gamut, there will be banding issues especially if you stay in 8-bit pixels.

    Simple rule of thumb: Keep a separate version in sRGB which is originally meant to be the lowest-common-denominator standard for display purposes.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Which colour space to work with?

    Originally posted by eyst
    A slightly more advanced question so i decided to ask here in the General Discussion forum instead.

    Adobe Photoshop seems to want, and ONLY ever want to work in sRGB color management mode. When it edits the picture in that mode, the colours look very different to what you see on most picture viewing programs. Such as acdsee and internet explorer.

    The problem here is.. when i edit pictures in Adobe Photoshop, they look great there - but when i save it, then view it in acdsee/internet explorer, the picture comes out looking very different. The colours must have been interpreted differently to the way photoshop does.
    I'm working in PS in sRGB and comparing the picture viewed in PS to that viewed in ACDSee. The colours are IDENTICAL on my computer.

    without properly calibrated devices, not sure whether working in AdobeRGB will improve things - you will certainly have more headaches trying to work in AdobeRGB if your devices are not calibrated....

  6. #6

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    Hmm... that confuses things even more.

    I'll make a demonstration.

    In order to make the colours look EXACTLY as it is in sRGB in Photoshop, to be viewed in the likes of acdsee and internet explorer.. i simply did a screenshot of photoshop, and then cropped/pasted it in ms paint

    This is EXACTLY what it looks like in Photoshop sRGB. EVEN though you are viewing this now in internet explorer:




    Thats what i work with in photoshop in sRGB mode, when i save it and view it in ANY OTHER Program. It comes out like this:




    Now in the sRGB mode, the car looks more "orange", whereas in the second version it looks more of a "greeny" type of Yellow.



    Of course.. to make things even more confusing, if you really are viewing this in the proper sRGB mode, then that means the second pic to you... would look like the first pic to me on my computer.

    Which means that the first pic on my computer, will look... crazy on yours.

    Because when i opened the first "Screenshotted" image in photoshop again. (opening a screenshot of itself) the picture looked insanely different.. especially the blue, which in turn has appeared to look like Cyan.



    does the first pic look more "natural" to you? A more natural looking yellow.

    If it does, then that means you're seeing the exact same as me.

    If the first pic looks strange, because of the blue -> cyan colour shifting.. then you are truely viewing this whole thing in sRGB.

    My mind is all boggled
    Last edited by eyst; 5th June 2003 at 09:35 PM.

  7. #7

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    Talking about colour space, hey Watcher, we meet again!

    And eyst, to find out more about colour space and colour management try to get this book, Real World Color Management by Bruce Fraser. U can find it in public libraries. http://vistaweb.nlb.gov.sg/cgi-bin/c...2+11216226+1+0 Hope u will find it useful.

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    Oh dear,
    You have gotten into a big mess on this thing. Just remember a few pointers and you won't get wrong.

    1) Don't Panic. The file in a different color space can be changed into the one you want
    2) Most apps are not color space-aware; they don't know how to handle any file in any color space than sRGB. This includes IE (naturally) and ACDSee (it seems).
    3) Don't bother to use other gamut if you don't know what they are for; stick to sRGB and you will avoid a lot of headaches
    4) To even try to start applying color management, you must calibrate your monitor, at least with Adobe Gamma (but it is still very rough).

  9. #9
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    Originally posted by Noir
    Talking about colour space, hey Watcher, we meet again!

    And eyst, to find out more about colour space and colour management try to get this book, Real World Color Management by Bruce Fraser. U can find it in public libraries. http://vistaweb.nlb.gov.sg/cgi-bin/c...2+11216226+1+0 Hope u will find it useful.
    Hi Noir,
    Again we meet on this topic . It seems quite a few people are experimenting with color space...

    Yep, I have just borrowed a copy of this book this evening Pretty good.

  10. #10
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    Sigh,
    eyst, you got it backwards. It is not that PS wants to work in sRGB; it is in fact one of the most color space-aware app. The reason is simple: You ARE editing your images in the other color space, you just can't see it.

    You see (pun not intended), if your color space is not sRGB, a pixel with a set of RGB values is interpreted by the CMM differently and converted into sRGB of your screen with another value...

  11. #11

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    Originally posted by Watcher

    2) Most apps are not color space-aware; they don't know how to handle any file in any color space than sRGB. This includes IE (naturally) and ACDSee (it seems).
    Would like to add that although some picture display programmes are colour space blind, your best bet is still to use sRGB cos at least the colours will be closer to what u see or what others will see, if u happen to post them on the web. If you were to use something other that sRGB, like Adobe RGB for example, your colours might become totally off and likely not even close.

    Watcher, I borrowed the book too, is it a good read or what!

  12. #12
    Verre Vrai
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    I only use Adobe 1998 RGB in PS. Take note that digicams only record in sRGB color space. (only Canon 10D allows you to set other colour psace)

  13. #13
    cyke
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    To clarify, the Minolta DiMAGE 7Hi also offers colour space selection.

  14. #14
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    Originally posted by Verre Vrai
    I only use Adobe 1998 RGB in PS. Take note that digicams only record in sRGB color space. (only Canon 10D allows you to set other colour psace)
    Sorry hor, D100 had it from day one, before even D60 came out. Another one of those Canon users with misplaced pride (and information) .
    In fact the D100 (with v2 firmware since last year) tags the image files with the correct profile (ie sRGB or AdobeRGB), while 10D does not do it (as mentioned in 10D's own manual), and that on a 10D, with AdobeRGB selected "no parameter adjustment available" (quoted from DPReview) shows that color space is something that Canon thinks is not important for the 10D users.
    Last edited by Watcher; 6th June 2003 at 11:05 AM.

  15. #15
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    Originally posted by Noir
    Would like to add that although some picture display programmes are colour space blind, your best bet is still to use sRGB cos at least the colours will be closer to what u see or what others will see, if u happen to post them on the web. If you were to use something other that sRGB, like Adobe RGB for example, your colours might become totally off and likely not even close.

    Watcher, I borrowed the book too, is it a good read or what!
    Because most are color space blind, you should always save the display copy in sRGB. Your archive copy should remain in the same color space as when you are editing.

    Yeah the book is very high-tech, digital-focus (pun intended), compared to some of the more print-oriented color space books. I may even buy a copy. It is THAT good.

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