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Thread: Any difference between Leica, CZ, Nikon, Canon lenses when used on the same body?

  1. #41

    Default Re: Any difference between Leica, CZ, Nikon, Canon lenses when used on the same body?

    i think they have their own strengths and weaknesses

  2. #42
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    Default Re: Any difference between Leica, CZ, Nikon, Canon lenses when used on the same body?

    interesting read, well this is my take on it.

    i believe what bro lsisaxon is talking about is the character of the lens

    to me, test data like mtf, distortion, mag ratio are all rubbish.
    how to read and comprehend so much (ok i am just too lazy la)
    and there is also something unmeasureable, a human's perception.
    hence some say sharp, soft, this contrast better, that vignette lesser ...

    each lens from each company has its own character, feel and on the RFF, its unique signature. there is no comparison between lens from each company. the age of lens and its purpose also plays a large part. not really fair to compare a summitar 50mm and a nikkor 50mm rite... and u haven't factor things like build for film or dx etc etc...

    so my take, there is not really much to compare.
    if really wanna compare, do it with the older lens (old rangerfinder lens are a good start)
    to see a good comparison, do it on a b&w film and not the DSLR
    that is when u see more and feel more about the lens differences.

  3. #43

    Default Re: Any difference between Leica, CZ, Nikon, Canon lenses when used on the same body?

    Quote Originally Posted by lsisaxon View Post
    How would CZ / Leica lenses compare to the Nikon/Canon, in terms of colour, tonal gradient, highlight/shadow details. I'm looking more at the transmission and spectral aspects rather than spatial resolution.
    if that's the case, then it is your personal preference that counts because the differences are in the feel rather than in the absolute technical quality... you've gotta try them out yourself...

  4. #44

    Default Re: Any difference between Leica, CZ, Nikon, Canon lenses when used on the same body?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rashkae View Post
    All hail mother russia!
    Wasn't Praktica East German? The Russians ones are Zenit.

  5. #45

    Default Re: Any difference between Leica, CZ, Nikon, Canon lenses when used on the same body?

    Quote Originally Posted by psychobiologist View Post
    tell you what, i dont mind trading my ZFs for some of the nikon AIS and the newer nikon zooms. esp the 24/70 :P
    Hahaha... I don't have that lens yet..

  6. #46

    Default Re: Any difference between Leica, CZ, Nikon, Canon lenses when used on the same body?

    Quote Originally Posted by theRBK View Post
    if that's the case, then it is your personal preference that counts because the differences are in the feel rather than in the absolute technical quality... you've gotta try them out yourself...
    Yeah.. In a way, I guess this probably has a lot to do with preference. I have no problems with Nikon optics. They serve me well. It's just that I always see something different in shots taken with CZ lenses, be they Hass, Contax , ZF or ZA. Even if the composition is bad etc.. there is still something about the colour that makes me take a second look. I would like to be able to quantify that... Transmission curves? Spherical aberration correction? I believe it's curves but I think it's more than just that because even though the curves on Sony and Nikon are different, shots with ZA and ZF appears to have something in common.

    Rollei lenses do somehow have a different feel (sharper, contrastier) even though they are CZ also.. Might be because they use HFT coating instead of T*? The Sony prosumers using CZ optics with T* coating doesn't seem to have this something also.
    Last edited by lsisaxon; 10th March 2008 at 11:31 AM.

  7. #47

    Default Re: Any difference between Leica, CZ, Nikon, Canon lenses when used on the same body?

    Quote Originally Posted by lsisaxon View Post
    Even if the composition is bad etc.. there is still something about the colour that makes me take a second look. I would like to be able to quantify that... Transmission curves? Spherical aberration correction? I believe it's curves but I think it's more than just that because even though the curves on Sony and Nikon are different, shots with ZA and ZF appears to have something in common.
    if its a particular colour rendition you prefer, shoot in RAW and adjust the colours to your liking from there in the days of film, the lens had a huge part to play in the colour you capture, but with digital, we can tweek the colours to our hearts delight... ... or if still prefering to shoot in jpegs, just batch in some curves which adjust the colour feel you like...

  8. #48

    Default Re: Any difference between Leica, CZ, Nikon, Canon lenses when used on the same body?

    Quote Originally Posted by theRBK View Post
    if its a particular colour rendition you prefer, shoot in RAW and adjust the colours to your liking from there in the days of film, the lens had a huge part to play in the colour you capture, but with digital, we can tweek the colours to our hearts delight... ... or if still prefering to shoot in jpegs, just batch in some curves which adjust the colour feel you like...
    Can you imagine tweaking every single picture to the style you want? You might be able to get 80% of the look if you try very hard and work for very long, but I can simply use the said lens and take seconds to take a shot and know it'll come out the way I want it.

    Plus, the lens signature isn't very obvious, making it even harder to spot. Plus you have micro contrast and increased sharpness that you can't PS on.

    Samuel
    f/8 and be there.

  9. #49

    Default Re: Any difference between Leica, CZ, Nikon, Canon lenses when used on the same body?

    Quote Originally Posted by theRBK View Post
    if its a particular colour rendition you prefer, shoot in RAW and adjust the colours to your liking from there in the days of film, the lens had a huge part to play in the colour you capture, but with digital, we can tweek the colours to our hearts delight... ... or if still prefering to shoot in jpegs, just batch in some curves which adjust the colour feel you like...
    Tried tweaking camera curves before before but it's really difficult to get the right feel.. Maybe need separate RGB curves.. Can get close but still missing something. Might be microcontrast like what alternative mentioned?

    I like this discussion because we get to see both views. People who advocate these lenses and people who don't. I'm sitting on the fence.
    Last edited by lsisaxon; 12th March 2008 at 10:55 AM.

  10. #50

    Default Re: Any difference between Leica, CZ, Nikon, Canon lenses when used on the same body?

    Quote Originally Posted by lsisaxon View Post
    Wasn't Praktica East German? The Russians ones are Zenit.
    East Germany was behind the Iron Curtain... Basically all Soviet Union really. :P
    Alpha

  11. #51

    Default Re: Any difference between Leica, CZ, Nikon, Canon lenses when used on the same body?

    Quote Originally Posted by alternatve View Post
    Can you imagine tweaking every single picture to the style you want? You might be able to get 80% of the look if you try very hard and work for very long, but I can simply use the said lens and take seconds to take a shot and know it'll come out the way I want it.
    that's why I mentioned batching the curve if on jpg or using a particular group of settings if processing RAW... the results should be as consistent as if using a particular lens which would give a particular colour rendition... season to taste

    Quote Originally Posted by alternatve View Post
    Plus, the lens signature isn't very obvious, making it even harder to spot. Plus you have micro contrast and increased sharpness that you can't PS on.

    Samuel
    like I mentioned, the colour adjustment is only if one is looking for a particular colour rendition, not for micro contrast, bokeh, optical aberration, or any number of other items...

  12. #52

    Default Re: Any difference between Leica, CZ, Nikon, Canon lenses when used on the same body?

    Quote Originally Posted by lsisaxon View Post
    Tried tweaking camera curves before before but it's really difficult to get the right feel.. Maybe need separate RGB curves.. Can get close but still missing something. Might be microcontrast like what alternative mentioned?

    I like this discussion because we get to see both views. People who advocate these lenses and people who don't. I'm sitting on the fence.
    you probably need to adjust individual colour curves... otherwise, you would only affect the overall brightness and contrast...

    for me, if its a colour issue, I'ld forget about getting the lens... if the lens gives me other advantages (depending on usage) like sharpness, bokeh, faster lens, better AF, closer focusing, etc, I would consider making the purchase, budget willing...

  13. #53

    Default Re: Any difference between Leica, CZ, Nikon, Canon lenses when used on the same body?

    Quote Originally Posted by theRBK View Post

    for me, if its a colour issue, I'ld forget about getting the lens... if the lens gives me other advantages (depending on usage) like sharpness, bokeh, faster lens, better AF, closer focusing, etc, I would consider making the purchase, budget willing...


    i believe u r a photo editing expert. not all photographers are photo editing experts. some will prefer lenses that give good or refreshing colours without photo editing.

  14. #54

    Default Re: Any difference between Leica, CZ, Nikon, Canon lenses when used on the same body?

    Quote Originally Posted by gohaj View Post
    i believe u r a photo editing expert. not all photographers are photo editing experts. some will prefer lenses that give good or refreshing colours without photo editing.


    but its the same kind of commitment with enthusiasts who develop their own film... and now, as some have said, we can make the choice of colour, not someone in Fujifilm or Kodak, or some lens manufacturer

  15. #55

    Default Re: Any difference between Leica, CZ, Nikon, Canon lenses when used on the same body?

    Quote Originally Posted by theRBK View Post


    but its the same kind of commitment with enthusiasts who develop their own film... and now, as some have said, we can make the choice of colour, not someone in Fujifilm or Kodak, or some lens manufacturer
    Similarly, not many people tweak chemicals and processing time to give certain kind of effects. That's probably why they prefer to shoot slides instead of negs.

  16. #56

    Default Re: Any difference between Leica, CZ, Nikon, Canon lenses when used on the same body?

    Strange that the discussion does not mention about the Pentax Limiteds i.e. 31mm, 43mm and 77mm. The first and the third were really some great glass, not to mention affordable too.

  17. #57

    Default Re: Any difference between Leica, CZ, Nikon, Canon lenses when used on the same body?

    Quote Originally Posted by Parchiao View Post
    Strange that the discussion does not mention about the Pentax Limiteds i.e. 31mm, 43mm and 77mm. The first and the third were really some great glass, not to mention affordable too.
    Does not mention about Minolta Rokkor-G also mah..

  18. #58
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    Default Re: Any difference between Leica, CZ, Nikon, Canon lenses when used on the same body?

    So far, there has been lots of talk/text, but no one has posted any pictures to illustrate if there is any visible difference for a direct comparison.

    Maybe, the difference is so very minute that you need a magnifying glass to see at 100%. So far, I have not seen any comparison in any website or any magazine. Hope that someone could do some meaningful comparison. We have seen 3 pages of text and not a single picture to show......
    Do not be afraid [of ghost and bullies] Shoot them......

  19. #59

    Default Re: Any difference between Leica, CZ, Nikon, Canon lenses when used on the same body?

    Quote Originally Posted by La Fontaine View Post
    So far, there has been lots of talk/text, but no one has posted any pictures to illustrate if there is any visible difference for a direct comparison.

    Maybe, the difference is so very minute that you need a magnifying glass to see at 100%. So far, I have not seen any comparison in any website or any magazine. Hope that someone could do some meaningful comparison. We have seen 3 pages of text and not a single picture to show......
    Because there's no way to show the quality of the Nikon, Canon, CZ and leica lenses on the same body.

    On sony, you can show the Minolta vs Leica (Minolta made lenses for Leica) vs Sony G vs CZ comparison. But not the Nikon or Canon lenses.
    Alpha

  20. #60
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    Default Re: Any difference between Leica, CZ, Nikon, Canon lenses when used on the same body?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rashkae View Post
    I don't think the japanese have caught up at all, actually. In the example of canon, lenses are not their only focus. The L lenses are not as sharp as a Zeiss or Leica.

    Plus, different lens manufactures use different techniques to make their lenses stand out; each lens has it's own attributes, special coating technology, quality of glass used, etc.

    In case of Sony, I have used Minolta G, CZ and Leica. The Leica/Leitz 70-210 f/4 was developed for Leica by Minolta and is the same lens as the minolta "beercan".

    This is what I can tell you:

    1. CZ goes for very very sharp images with a higher contrast, but slightly cooler tones. Flare reduction is fantastic.

    2. Minolta G is sharp, but the strength is bokeh and the skintones are fantastic! Nice warm colors, smoother skin.

    3. Leica: A balance between sharpness and bokeh, though the contrast and colors are lower. It's a cooler, more neutral image.


    This is what I can tell you from taking pictures with all 3 lenses at 85mm f/4 and on the same body, same settings, same subject, etc.
    Seems that you have done a meaningful comparison. Any pictures to show us?
    Do not be afraid [of ghost and bullies] Shoot them......

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