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Thread: Any difference between Leica, CZ, Nikon, Canon lenses when used on the same body?

  1. #21

    Default Re: Any difference between Leica, CZ, Nikon, Canon lenses when used on the same body?

    Never shot with Leica before, but CZ beats the Jap lenses anytime.

    The contrast and detail is just far ahead, even the best Jap prime can't beat a CZ prime.

    The newer CZ zooms are not as outstanding though.

  2. #22

    Default Re: Any difference between Leica, CZ, Nikon, Canon lenses when used on the same body?

    Quote Originally Posted by melvinchen View Post

    The newer CZ zooms are not as outstanding though.
    You should try the new 24-70 CZ zoom...
    Alpha

  3. #23

    Default Re: Any difference between Leica, CZ, Nikon, Canon lenses when used on the same body?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rashkae View Post
    If your Nikkors are good enough for you and you're happy with the results, there's no need to get infected with the BBB virus.
    Yeah.. Most of the time they are good enough for me.. But somehow I am kind of mesmerized by the CZ colour rendition.. Too bad ZFs are MF, that's why I'm tempted with ZA.

  4. #24
    Senior Member giantcanopy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Any difference between Leica, CZ, Nikon, Canon lenses when used on the same body?

    Quote Originally Posted by melvinchen View Post
    Never shot with Leica before, but CZ beats the Jap lenses anytime.

    The contrast and detail is just far ahead, even the best Jap prime can't beat a CZ prime.

    The newer CZ zooms are not as outstanding though.
    Hi

    I have no doubt about the remarkable quality of CZ lenses. Just wondering how you qualify that the best Jap prime cannot beat a CZ prime. ( which is the best Jap prime anyway ?? )

    Dun understand why with newer technology they are actually making newer lenses that pale compared to their older cousins. Are they progressing backwards instead ?

  5. #25

    Default Re: Any difference between Leica, CZ, Nikon, Canon lenses when used on the same body?

    Quote Originally Posted by theRBK View Post
    I don't think we can make blanket statements for all the lenses within each stable... not every lens for say Zeiss is great, and not every lens from someone else is a lemon... which lens are you looking considering?
    Let's say 50/1.4, 85/1.4 and maybe one in the wide angle range? 25/2.8 looks good.. Would be better if the vario-sonnar 16-80 is available in AF F-mount too.

  6. #26

    Default Re: Any difference between Leica, CZ, Nikon, Canon lenses when used on the same body?

    Quote Originally Posted by giantcanopy View Post
    Hi

    I have no doubt about the remarkable quality of CZ lenses. Just wondering how you qualify that the best Jap prime cannot beat a CZ prime. ( which is the best Jap prime anyway ?? )

    Dun understand why with newer technology they are actually making newer lenses that pale compared to their older cousins. Are they progressing backwards instead ?
    Lens making nowadays is too technical and clinical. The optimization goals are more technical than aesthetic. For example, a perfectly linear dynamic curve may be ideal but it may not be aesthetically pleasing, or spectrally perfect transmission characteristics may be ideal but again, it may not be aesthetically pleasing.

    An analogy is in audio. People may quest for perfect system, linear in dynamics and sonically flat. But people still use equalizers and compressors to make it sound better.

  7. #27

    Default Re: Any difference between Leica, CZ, Nikon, Canon lenses when used on the same body?

    Quote Originally Posted by LittleWolf View Post
    You can expand the blurred image components into a series, with the coefficients being objective parameters that specify the bokeh as precisely as you like it.



    No, that's by no means clear. If A resolves 100 lpm in the center, but only 80 in the corner, whereas B resolves 90 lpm throughout the image circle, it depends on the application. A lens with 100 lpm that distorts like a fisheye is really bad at repro photography, compared to one with only 80 lpm but negligible distortion. The MTF function depends also on the distance the lens is focused at. Things are not that easy ...



    Of course there is. If you compare e.g. "CZ lenses" to "Japanese lenses", you're comparing entire populations of lenses. Unless there are certain features that correlate with "CZ" or "Japanese" to a statistically significant extent, you cannot make blanket statements about certain brands.



    Actually, this would be necessary, since consistency/quality control is also a performance metric when making blanket statements about lenses of certain origin.



    Which makes these numbers meaningless, since we photograph with real lenses, including their manufacturing tolerances, not with computer simulations.



    If you trust the manufacturer that they publish typical data (i.e. one based on statistical analysis of the influence of the manufacturing tolerances), not the "best case" data. Ideally, they should also publish the "worst case" data. You find this information in the data sheets of components that cost only pennies, but I have yet to see it for photographic lenses that cost thousands of dollars.
    Before any argument goes on in the MTF of the lenses, do let me rephrase the question. Let's say the MTF of the CZ / Leica lenses are comparable (not any better) to, say, a Nikon or a Canon L lens, performing equally well in the centre as well as the edges, which means to say optical design wise they are comparable..

    How would CZ / Leica lenses compare to the Nikon/Canon, in terms of colour, tonal gradient, highlight/shadow details. I'm looking more at the transmission and spectral aspects rather than spatial resolution.

    There are aspects that correlate to CZ, eg the T* coating. It has been legendary and I guess it still is. Leica has their own proprietary coating, So has Nikon and Canon. In my opinion, I feel that Nikon optics are very technical, clinically good in terms of linearity and spectral transmission, without much bias towards one colour or another, maybe it has but I think it's good enough. CZ comes across to me like music which has run through something like an audio compressor, and Leica comes across to me like music which has gone through an audio equalizer.

    Like most mastering engineers for music, they have their favourite compression ratio, attack, decay and delay time for their compressors and their favourite equalizer settings. These would be the aesthetic aspects.
    Last edited by lsisaxon; 6th March 2008 at 06:06 PM.

  8. #28

    Default Re: Any difference between Leica, CZ, Nikon, Canon lenses when used on the same body?

    Hi, a bit ot but since so many experts here can i just ask whats the diff between CZ and CZ Jena? Coz I sometimes see CZ Jena lens selling for low prices?

  9. #29

    Default Re: Any difference between Leica, CZ, Nikon, Canon lenses when used on the same body?

    Quote Originally Posted by victorlee10 View Post
    Hi, a bit ot but since so many experts here can i just ask whats the diff between CZ and CZ Jena? Coz I sometimes see CZ Jena lens selling for low prices?
    After WWII, CZ was split into 2 companies. One of them was in Jena in East Germany.
    Alpha

  10. #30

    Default Re: Any difference between Leica, CZ, Nikon, Canon lenses when used on the same body?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rashkae View Post
    After WWII, CZ was split into 2 companies. One of them was in Jena in East Germany.
    Oh, does that mean CZ Jena not as good thats why cheaper?

  11. #31

    Default Re: Any difference between Leica, CZ, Nikon, Canon lenses when used on the same body?

    Quote Originally Posted by victorlee10 View Post
    Oh, does that mean CZ Jena not as good thats why cheaper?
    Well, optically they're very similar, but the "made in East Germany" tag frequently implied lower quality...
    Alpha

  12. #32
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    Default Re: Any difference between Leica, CZ, Nikon, Canon lenses when used on the same body?

    Quote Originally Posted by victorlee10 View Post
    Oh, does that mean CZ Jena not as good thats why cheaper?
    IIRC, the "real" Carl Zeiss is the one in Jena. There was a court battle of the rights to the brand name after the war which confirmed this. AFAIK, Zeiss Oberkochen was technically not Carl Zeiss.

    Edit: a quick web search indicates that the trade mark was actually transferred to the western split-off.

    The build quality of the CZ Jena lenses I encountered was not too great. A very common problem appears to be sticking aperture blades, probably due to a poor choice of lubricant.
    Last edited by LittleWolf; 7th March 2008 at 10:33 AM.

  13. #33

    Default Re: Any difference between Leica, CZ, Nikon, Canon lenses when used on the same body?

    Quote Originally Posted by LittleWolf View Post
    IIRC, the "real" Carl Zeiss is the one in Jena. There was a court battle of the rights to the brand name after the war which confirmed this. AFAIK, Zeiss Oberkochen was technically not Carl Zeiss.

    Edit: a quick web search indicates that the trade mark was actually transferred to the western split-off.

    The build quality of the CZ Jena lenses I encountered was not too great. A very common problem appears to be sticking aperture blades, probably due to a poor choice of lubricant.
    And poor availability of high-quality lubricant and other parts. It was all behind the iron curtain.
    Alpha

  14. #34

    Default Re: Any difference between Leica, CZ, Nikon, Canon lenses when used on the same body?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rashkae View Post
    Well, optically they're very similar, but the "made in East Germany" tag frequently implied lower quality...
    After the communist took over the Jena factory, the quality of the optics dropped quite bit. It is not uncommon to see bubbles in the optics of CZ Jena lenses. They do not have T* coating also.

  15. #35

    Default Re: Any difference between Leica, CZ, Nikon, Canon lenses when used on the same body?

    Quote Originally Posted by lsisaxon View Post
    After the communist took over the Jena factory, the quality of the optics dropped quite bit. It is not uncommon to see bubbles in the optics of CZ Jena lenses. They do not have T* coating also.
    That's for the "latest" ones from there. The early ones are still ok, before the supply of high-quality glass dried up.
    Alpha

  16. #36

    Default Re: Any difference between Leica, CZ, Nikon, Canon lenses when used on the same body?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rashkae View Post
    That's for the "latest" ones from there. The early ones are still ok, before the supply of high-quality glass dried up.
    Praktica lenses. They give very nice, rich colours but when blown up, the images are not sharp at all.
    Last edited by lsisaxon; 7th March 2008 at 03:20 PM.

  17. #37

    Default Re: Any difference between Leica, CZ, Nikon, Canon lenses when used on the same body?

    Quote Originally Posted by lsisaxon View Post
    Praktica lenses. They give very nice, rich colours but when blown up, the images are not sharp at all.
    All hail mother russia!
    Alpha

  18. #38

    Default Re: Any difference between Leica, CZ, Nikon, Canon lenses when used on the same body?

    To me, it is still the joker behind the camera. True, having all the fancy stuff, so-called sharp lens but landed up in someone with can't compose the pix well ... u knw the result.

  19. #39
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    Default Re: Any difference between Leica, CZ, Nikon, Canon lenses when used on the same body?

    Quote Originally Posted by lsisaxon View Post
    Hmmm.. it's really some food for though for me.. Anyone want to dispute that and say I should not get ZFs because my Nikkors are good enough?
    tell you what, i dont mind trading my ZFs for some of the nikon AIS and the newer nikon zooms. esp the 24/70 :P
    chezburgr i can haz?

  20. #40
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    Default Re: Any difference between Leica, CZ, Nikon, Canon lenses when used on the same body?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheZard View Post
    To me, it is still the joker behind the camera. True, having all the fancy stuff, so-called sharp lens but landed up in someone with can't compose the pix well ... u knw the result.
    i still put forth the user experience and satisfaction factor..

    for most hobbyists.. who cares whether composition is in or not, they just want to feel, to be there, to squeeze the shutter, etc.. pictures may come out average, aimless, pointless, but as long as the user enjoys it.. who cares!!

    just like IT fair, suddenly so many photographers.. but how many pictures come out usable? :P and why people keep going to shoot such things? cuz they enjoy the process, i.e. sense of esteem from holding a bigger and fatter lens than other counter parts, the pleasure of bursting a couple of shots here and there etc, its fun perhaps heh.


    if you talk about being in the photographic trade, a professional photog, give him any decent body with a decent set of lenses from any brand, the job will still be done just as well. its only us hobbyists who're more concerned abt a bit of this and a bit of that, not only hobbyists, or maybe artists too.
    chezburgr i can haz?

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