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Thread: JI detainee does a prison break.

  1. #501
    Senior Member SilverPine's Avatar
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    Default Re: JI detainee does a prison break.

    That is why the JI is such a threat to our Singapore national security, they will never give up until they meet their objective!
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  2. #502

    Default Re: JI detainee does a prison break.

    Quote Originally Posted by kiwi2 View Post
    Precisely.

    And the headlines in ST papers today front page. PM Lee says "Resignation will not solve the problem".

    Another witty technique at diverting our attention on the real issues.

    Sure resignation won't solve it. But that does not mean the person in higher authority should get away. It's not an offence on its own, but it's certainly a grave mistake. Basically, resignation is symbolic to show the person is not capable of leading and a better, more responsible person has to be in place. He's a leader, he may not make the serious mistake directly on his own, but he rules over the organization, he has to take the buck.

    Resignation also is a clear signal that just becos you are some top minister doesn't mean you can be lax in your job. Afterall, you are justified by the government to be paid so much. No wonder LTA recently can "suka suka" pass down some taxi rules without consideration for the bigger repercussions involved. And then "suka suka" retract them when they finally use their brains to see the citizens are not happy and the plan simply won't work. These officials are protected in their jobs. They know even if they make a bad decision, they won't easily lose their posts.

    You mean as Home Minister Wong KS has never set foot on the detention center where a dangerous man is being kept to have a walk around? And to see things are (NOT) in order? Instead, a 1.56m limping man could capitalize on the many loopholes of the poor security to devise a simple plan to escape under the (un)watchful eyes of the guards.

    This is one big fine example of how things are run here.

    Ok ok, before I sound like I'm whining, we all know the situation. We can only talk, but the status quo continues, unless there is a change in mindset.

    As Singaporeans, at the end of the day, life goes on for us. We have personal problems to attend to, family matters to see. Despite all the complaints and hoo-hahs and tons of letters poured in all over to ST Forum, we will still all mind our business and let our dear goverment run the show. 1-2 months from now, it's just another story in singahpoh.
    U are right and I agree with you. However do you know that our ministers are well sought-after. The moment they move away, they will get income 10 times their current salary.

    So, resignation is symbolic to show the person is not capable of leading and a better, more responsible person has to be in place
    So symbolic is a term used?

    I have confidence in our leaders. If Wong KS is not capable of doing his job, he would have gone long time ago. Nobody will survive in the team if they are not up to the mark.

  3. #503

    Default Re: JI detainee does a prison break.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sjourn View Post
    strange, they peg thier salaries to the coporate world yet do not peg thier accountilbility to coparate governence.

    I wonder what punishment the 2 gurkas and supervisor will get? Sacked, demoted, or carreer death. How about the top ppl? Should'nt they take responsibilities as well...
    How high do you suppose you want to go? All the way until the President? Then wat abt the people who elect the President? Us the citizens ...

    Ultimately, the buck has to stop somewhere ...

    my 2 cents ... the superintendent in charge of the premises has the basic responsibility to ensure that security is not compromised. If he fails to ensure the premises where he is everyday or maybe visit once a week is secure, then he has not lived up to his responsibility.

    On the other hand, if he has done everything and Mas Selamat dig a hole in the reinforced concrete or knock down a wall so that he can climb over a fence, then we cannot say that he has not been responsible. Given ourselves, we would not have expected the same thing from Mas Selamat.

    The minister probably visit the venue once a year and after the classic public service tidying-up of all unsightful things (remember Jack Neo's movie that before the minister visit, the people tidy up the building?). How could he expect to be held directly responsible for the security of the venue?

    If for every wrongdoing, mistake whatever somewhere far down the line, a minister has to go, do we have enough ministers to play the musical chair?

  4. #504

    Default Re: JI detainee does a prison break.

    Quote Originally Posted by kiwi2 View Post
    You mean as Home Minister Wong KS has never set foot on the detention center where a dangerous man is being kept to have a walk around? And to see things are (NOT) in order? Instead, a 1.56m limping man could capitalize on the many loopholes of the poor security to devise a simple plan to escape under the (un)watchful eyes of the guards.
    Must the minister inspect every sq inch of the permises and every corner to ensure that the venue is secure? Then what for employ the services of the superintendent of the detention centre? Moreover, things will be touched up before his visit to ensure that they impress him with the permises and proper explanations given for things not in order by some quick thinking people like "detainees only come here during visits and 2 guards will ensure that the detainee is always in sight and this is accessible as well to the visiting public" for windows not being grilled. How is the minister to know that somewhere down the line, a convergence of mistakes make an escape possible?

  5. #505
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    Default Re: JI detainee does a prison break.

    Quote Originally Posted by paradigm View Post
    Must the minister inspect every sq inch of the permises and every corner to ensure that the venue is secure? Then what for employ the services of the superintendent of the detention centre? Moreover, things will be touched up before his visit to ensure that they impress him with the permises and proper explanations given for things not in order by some quick thinking people like "detainees only come here during visits and 2 guards will ensure that the detainee is always in sight and this is accessible as well to the visiting public" for windows not being grilled. How is the minister to know that somewhere down the line, a convergence of mistakes make an escape possible?
    When i was in SAF, there was audit check annually to make sure things are run properly in the unit (operation procedures, inventory accountancy, documentation and etc...)

    Maybe ISD is special, they are exempted from audit checks

    Oh ya
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  6. #506

    Default Re: JI detainee does a prison break.

    lets just hope the minister and all of the people responsible for this learn their lesson. coz we learn from our mistakes, our past, our history. we cant anticipate these things. what we can do is learn from them and move on. why argue about what had happen. no use crying over spilt milk. haha. and its good that Minister Wong KS didnt resigned. so that he can learn from his mistakes. if they elect a new minister, the new minister might not know how to cope with this kind of problems whereas Minister Wong KS has already faced it now.
    move on guys. just search for mas selamat and end this thing. hahaha

  7. #507

    Default Re: JI detainee does a prison break.

    Quote Originally Posted by mdnoorhakim View Post
    lets just hope the minister and all of the people responsible for this learn their lesson. coz we learn from our mistakes, our past, our history. we cant anticipate these things. what we can do is learn from them and move on. why argue about what had happen. no use crying over spilt milk. haha. and its good that Minister Wong KS didnt resigned. so that he can learn from his mistakes. if they elect a new minister, the new minister might not know how to cope with this kind of problems whereas Minister Wong KS has already faced it now.
    move on guys. just search for mas selamat and end this thing. hahaha
    Anyway, its is true we should move on. no one's hurt, its just a show. There must be a reason he is gone. A good reason perhaps to save soul or two.

    No bad media shown and chapter had been ordered to close. Even many of the posters were taken down. National day & SAF day is coming; we should prepare for the mood and not let this incident dampen the joyous occassions.

    Do not ask for accountability. Forgive and forget is perhaps the modern approach.

    Shouldnt the mods here close this thread? Its not getting anywhere i feel.

  8. #508

    Default Re: JI detainee does a prison break.

    Quote Originally Posted by Static View Post
    When i was in SAF, there was audit check annually to make sure things are run properly in the unit (operation procedures, inventory accountancy, documentation and etc...)

    Maybe ISD is special, they are exempted from audit checks

    Oh ya
    More Good Years ahead Sigg,
    Well, even in audit checks, not everything is checked out ... tt's why CPL Dave Teo can jalan out w SAR 21 ...

    Some places have a security officer / dept to look into these kinds of stuff ... for some, its a shared responsibility (ie, if its everybody's job, then its nobody's) ...

    Ultimately, the human factor is the weakest link in an organisation ... you can have all the procedures and stuff like tt and it still doesn't matter ...

  9. #509
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    Default Re: JI detainee does a prison break.

    Quote Originally Posted by paradigm View Post
    Well, even in audit checks, not everything is checked out ... tt's why CPL Dave Teo can jalan out w SAR 21 ...

    Some places have a security officer / dept to look into these kinds of stuff ... for some, its a shared responsibility (ie, if its everybody's job, then its nobody's) ...

    Ultimately, the human factor is the weakest link in an organisation ... you can have all the procedures and stuff like tt and it still doesn't matter ...
    You are beri right.

    But the most basic requirement for a detention centre is to have its CCTV survelliance system working...

    I dun tink the audit check will miss that out



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  10. #510
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    Default Re: JI detainee does a prison break.

    Quote Originally Posted by paradigm View Post
    How high do you suppose you want to go? All the way until the President? Then wat abt the people who elect the President? Us the citizens ...

    Ultimately, the buck has to stop somewhere ...

    my 2 cents ... the superintendent in charge of the premises has the basic responsibility to ensure that security is not compromised. If he fails to ensure the premises where he is everyday or maybe visit once a week is secure, then he has not lived up to his responsibility.

    On the other hand, if he has done everything and Mas Selamat dig a hole in the reinforced concrete or knock down a wall so that he can climb over a fence, then we cannot say that he has not been responsible. Given ourselves, we would not have expected the same thing from Mas Selamat.

    The minister probably visit the venue once a year and after the classic public service tidying-up of all unsightful things (remember Jack Neo's movie that before the minister visit, the people tidy up the building?). How could he expect to be held directly responsible for the security of the venue?

    If for every wrongdoing, mistake whatever somewhere far down the line, a minister has to go, do we have enough ministers to play the musical chair?

    First and foremost, i feel for my family safety because someone screwed up very badly on the escape of a known terrorist. Somebody has to account for the escape, if you read properly, I did not mention ministers or presidents, but somehow somebody has to be responsible, up to now, no one seems responsible. There is no excuse.
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  11. #511
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    Default Re: JI detainee does a prison break.

    Mas Selamat is a known terrorist
    He's well train to leave no trace of his escape
    He have planned to bomb Changi Airport
    He have planned to bomb the US navel base personnals in SG
    He most likely knows how to make a bomb
    SG was the one who exposed him
    This present gov is the one who make him go on the run

    With him still at large, how many of us can really move on, forgive and forget?
    I get paid more shooting part time ...... damn, I should find more time to shoot part time

  12. #512

    Default Re: JI detainee does a prison break.

    Quote Originally Posted by yqt View Post
    Mas Selamat is a known terrorist
    He's well train to leave no trace of his escape
    He have planned to bomb Changi Airport
    He have planned to bomb the US navel base personnals in SG
    He most likely knows how to make a bomb
    SG was the one who exposed him
    This present gov is the one who make him go on the run

    With him still at large, how many of us can really move on, forgive and forget?
    move on as in move on from blaming the ministers, isd, guards etc. theres nthg left we can do about that but to forgive them for their mistakes. but we cant move on from the Mas Selamat's case as he is still out here somewhere. just keep searching for him. and we have to give support to the govt. much like riise. he score an own goal, similar to the mas selamat's escape. what the liverpool fans can do is to continue to support him, much like what we must do to the govt. and who knows, with this support, liverpool can forge a historic moment by beating chelsea in the next leg, similarly to the govt, by catching mas selamat. forgive, learn from the past, support.

  13. #513

    Default Re: JI detainee does a prison break.

    Quote Originally Posted by yqt View Post
    With him still at large, how many of us can really move on, forgive and forget?
    like that chum liao

    the us definitely cannot move on,cannot forgive and cannot forget

    osama didn't even get caught once

  14. #514

    Default Re: JI detainee does a prison break.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sjourn View Post
    First and foremost, i feel for my family safety because someone screwed up very badly on the escape of a known terrorist. Somebody has to account for the escape, if you read properly, I did not mention ministers or presidents, but somehow somebody has to be responsible, up to now, no one seems responsible. There is no excuse.
    iirc, the guards etc has been disciplined (we dun know how though), how can no one seems responsible?

  15. #515
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    Default Re: JI detainee does a prison break.

    Quote Originally Posted by contaxable View Post
    Anyway, its is true we should move on. no one's hurt, its just a show. There must be a reason he is gone. A good reason perhaps to save soul or two.

    No bad media shown and chapter had been ordered to close. Even many of the posters were taken down. National day & SAF day is coming; we should prepare for the mood and not let this incident dampen the joyous occassions.

    Do not ask for accountability. Forgive and forget is perhaps the modern approach.

    Shouldnt the mods here close this thread? Its not getting anywhere i feel.
    Sure, no one's hurt now...do you think dangerous terrorists just escape then leave civilisation alone?

  16. #516

    Default Re: JI detainee does a prison break.

    Quote Originally Posted by calebk View Post
    Sure, no one's hurt now...do you think dangerous terrorists just escape then leave civilisation alone?
    well

    do you think locking them up or executing them solves anything?

    cut one down, another will rise

    the root of the problem is not solved.. take away one mas selamat, there will be another one.

  17. #517

    Default Re: JI detainee does a prison break.

    Quote Originally Posted by calebk View Post
    Sure, no one's hurt now...do you think dangerous terrorists just escape then leave civilisation alone?
    No one's hurt during the process of his escape. He can go on hurt others after his release, but if this was planned, is there anything we can do fix the case? If there was war threat for a real attack by the thwarted religious group, do we have defense?

    No, we should let the matter rest. We should move on and be more vigilant as a society. We are seeing things from behind the closed curtains. The macro view can look alot more devastating and there is a reason why we cannot probe. Terrorism is about money and ego.

    For eg, there were rumours that 911 was planned and bush could have known about the incident. With all the unanswered technical inconsistencies, what can the US citizens do about it? My colleagues were standing by the window and witnessed the gruesome murder by those basterds.

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  18. #518

    Default Re: JI detainee does a prison break.

    Quote Originally Posted by Static View Post
    When i was in SAF, there was audit check annually to make sure things are run properly in the unit (operation procedures, inventory accountancy, documentation and etc...)

    Maybe ISD is special, they are exempted from audit checks

    Oh ya
    More Good Years ahead Sigg,
    I am not too sure whether it is done. If not, they have to get someone to do the audit.

    It is a good practice.

  19. #519

    Default Re: JI detainee does a prison break.

    Quote Originally Posted by mdnoorhakim View Post
    lets just hope the minister and all of the people responsible for this learn their lesson. coz we learn from our mistakes, our past, our history. we cant anticipate these things. what we can do is learn from them and move on. why argue about what had happen. no use crying over spilt milk. haha. and its good that Minister Wong KS didnt resigned. so that he can learn from his mistakes. if they elect a new minister, the new minister might not know how to cope with this kind of problems whereas Minister Wong KS has already faced it now.
    move on guys. just search for mas selamat and end this thing. hahaha
    I cannot not agree with you. If a new minister is appointed, he or she will start a new learning curve!

  20. #520

    Default Re: JI detainee does a prison break.

    Quote Originally Posted by yqt View Post
    Mas Selamat is a known terrorist
    He's well train to leave no trace of his escape
    He have planned to bomb Changi Airport
    He have planned to bomb the US navel base personnals in SG
    He most likely knows how to make a bomb
    SG was the one who exposed him
    This present gov is the one who make him go on the run

    With him still at large, how many of us can really move on, forgive and forget?
    You are only worry about Mas Selamat.. do you know that there are many Mas Selamat(S) out there.

    So don't move on... no need to live because of one of the Mas Selamat(S) had gone!

    Maybe we should consider:

    1. Lock ourself away from one of the Mas Selamat(S) in one of the islands
    2. Employ the best body Guards and surround us
    3. Wear fully armour gear all the time
    4. Live on free air and drink from the sea
    5. Always think of Mas Selamat(S)

    All becos of "....SG was the one who exposed him
    This present gov is the one who make him go on the run"

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