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Thread: how far should a "newbie" tag allow one to get away with?

  1. #1

    Default how far should a "newbie" tag allow one to get away with?

    kopitiam not withstanding, we are all newbies here in the end, with one Grand Master and his Bride. (eh, don't ot and try to guess who i'm referring to hor)

    please see thread here for context

    i had stated my stand on the ot topic that dropped down from the sky from the many Public Defenders of the Peace, who.. end up serving to disrupt it more than help

    do you really want my opinion?

    there are 2 main categories of questions:

    1) the really basic ones, which, as educated citizens of the internet (i mean, you *ARE* posting in clubsnap, so that means you know how to use google at the very least).. most of us would already know the magical wonders of either:

    a. google, your best friend
    b. wikipedia, your second best friend
    c. yahoo, the girl you wanted to date but found out she wasn't as pretty as google
    d. well, if you really must use msn search, you can

    you catch the drift, no? i am always, along with most other people here, more than happy to answer questions to which the answers are not easily found on the internet. as in, REALLY EASILY. as in, if you TYPE IN "what is gnd?" "what is iso setting?" etc etc etc, ask google and ye shalt receive questions.

    under this category there would be the even more amusing sort.. which belong to more like "how do i power on my camera?" - you get the idea. there is also the "how much is this item costing right now" variety and "please tell me what camera to buy" variety - the former means that you are simply too lazy to make a few, cheap phone calls, and the latter means you want an answer to a question which has no answer. the best part is, sometimes, these threads will be posted as a salvo, 2 hours apart, one thread right above the other.


    2. questions that probably need more than just typing in google. stuff like, composition - i have not found a consolidated good site on this, to be frank, there are dribs and drabs and there is nothing which allows one to pass judgement on his picture right away. other stuff like photoshop techniques, where one has to filter through many sites where you have to pay money for something you can easily obtain on specialised sites like clubsnap. i mean, come on, if you're really interested in photography after a while you'd be able to differentiate category 1 and 2.


    i'm sure you've been there. like in school, the people who ask questions which help improve your understanding on the subject, or the people who ask questions which seek to simply waste the teacher's time and yours as well. i do not refer to slower students, that is still fine, but there are those who have not done their homework, and wish the teacher to focus all attention on them, think for them, and spoonfeed them like they are 3 years old still and sitting on a high chair. this category, would all belong to 1.
    what do you guys think? is it wrong to chide people for asking what you feel is an inane question? does it serve no purpose to them? i think it is in some sense, a form of education as to what you feel they should be caring about.. though whether one is qualified in any sense to make that value judgement in the first place is another matter altogether, i admit.

    all opinions welcome, you can call me a noob too, i donch care

  2. #2

    Default Re: how far should a "newbie" tag allow one to get away with?

    Quote Originally Posted by night86mare View Post
    kopitiam not withstanding, we are all newbies here in the end, with one Grand Master and his Bride. (eh, don't ot and try to guess who i'm referring to hor)

    please see thread here for context

    i had stated my stand on the ot topic that dropped down from the sky from the many Public Defenders of the Peace, who.. end up serving to disrupt it more than help



    what do you guys think? is it wrong to chide people for asking what you feel is an inane question? does it serve no purpose to them? i think it is in some sense, a form of education as to what you feel they should be caring about.. though whether one is qualified in any sense to make that value judgement in the first place is another matter altogether, i admit.

    all opinions welcome, you can call me a noob too, i donch care
    you forgot about the king of inane q Harry Potter haven;t you?

  3. #3

    Default Re: how far should a "newbie" tag allow one to get away with?

    Quote Originally Posted by daydreamz View Post
    tolerance & good spirit are important virtues in a community like CS...and honestly no one is indispensable to the forum....there will be many other very good photographer bros who will still hang in there and offer their pearls of wisdom to those who seek learning. So by all means...if greener pastures beckon, then fly away oh wise ones...we dont really see or hear thick chains tied on to anyone restraining you back.

    hmmm....anyways....let the discussion continue coz obviously a few people are certainly interested in this "inane" issue...
    brudder, good spirit and tolerance are definitely important, i do not deny you that.

    to put it simply though, hardwarezone is a very very very tolerant and good spirited place. you can go in there and tell me what you think of it. i find it a pain to read through, to find information that i really want without ending up getting stuff like "do gays scratch their.. er, whatevers" or "whatever whatever lip lai".. every group you can think of has a lip lai thread. if you are not hokkien, lip lai = come in.

    i am not sure about other forums, as far as i am concerned clubsnap is the number 1 stop for me other than my image hosting sites and maybe you could say that i am extremely opionated, i do not deny that.. and i am more than happy to express my opinions, whatever it may take, for improvement.

    everyone has something to learn from one another - just because this is a photography forums doesn't mean that the amount of respect one receives (if you could give or take respect on the internet even) should be measured solely by one's photographic skill. i am always, always more than happy to partake in logical discussion unless the other party takes it too extreme and nothing is done about it - which has happened in the past before, but not all the rarely. most of the time opinions can be resolved or at least a grudging agreement can be arrived after exchanging valid points - that should be the way.

  4. #4

    Default Re: how far should a "newbie" tag allow one to get away with?

    Quote Originally Posted by garou12 View Post
    you forgot about the king of inane q Harry Potter haven;t you?
    that one is kopitiam, only bored people come to kopitiam

    then harry potter becomes the ultimate source of entertainment for them

    no doubt at his expense, but i think he is more than happy to provide it unknowingly

    see, i started off with kopitiam notwithstanding

  5. #5

    Default Re: how far should a "newbie" tag allow one to get away with?

    Quote Originally Posted by night86mare View Post
    that one is kopitiam, only bored people come to kopitiam

    then harry potter becomes the ultimate source of entertainment for them

    no doubt at his expense, but i think he is more than happy to provide it unknowingly

    see, i started off with kopitiam notwithstanding
    i wonder what happened to him. he kinda disappeared.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Sion's Avatar
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    Default Re: how far should a "newbie" tag allow one to get away with?

    Quote Originally Posted by night86mare View Post
    that one is kopitiam, only bored people come to kopitiam

    then harry potter becomes the ultimate source of entertainment for them

    no doubt at his expense, but i think he is more than happy to provide it unknowingly

    see, i started off with kopitiam notwithstanding
    Now you're The Star of Kopitiam liao.

  7. #7
    Senior Member zac08's Avatar
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    Default Re: how far should a "newbie" tag allow one to get away with?

    There will ALWAYS be such queries no matter what. Somehow, I find that there will always be a few who'd ask simple questions in any forum.

    It's up to those who bother to answer them.
    Michael Lim
    My Flickr Site

  8. #8

    Default Re: how far should a "newbie" tag allow one to get away with?

    Quote Originally Posted by garou12 View Post
    i wonder what happened to him. he kinda disappeared.
    based on wild guesses and bored speculation

    we have concluded that he has found his ginny weasly and has been finally recruited into the hogwarts school of er.. something la

  9. #9

    Default Re: how far should a "newbie" tag allow one to get away with?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sion View Post
    Now you're The Star of Kopitiam liao.
    no no no uncle sion

    that title will always have to belong to you

    i am the new hope only

  10. #10
    Moderator ortega's Avatar
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    Default Re: how far should a "newbie" tag allow one to get away with?

    just remember to play nice,
    and not make me so busy keeping up

    thanks

    for those who don't know, there is a report bad post icon that you can click

  11. #11
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    Default Re: how far should a "newbie" tag allow one to get away with?

    well, my mother always says, "if you have nothing good to say, don't say anything"

    not that i always listen to my mom...but if you think it's a useless or stupid thread, just ignore it. do you really think the world will be a better place when you tell someone he's asking a stupid question?

    i find that i really enjoy overseas forums more where everyone is more civil and respecful of each other, and only start slamming people when they are clearly clowns out to disrupt the peace.
    www.colouredshots.com
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  12. #12
    Senior Member azul123's Avatar
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    Default Re: how far should a "newbie" tag allow one to get away with?

    Quote Originally Posted by antacid View Post
    well, my mother always says, "if you have nothing good to say, don't say anything"

    not that i always listen to my mom...but if you think it's a useless or stupid thread, just ignore it. do you really think the world will be a better place when you tell someone he's asking a stupid question?

    i find that i really enjoy overseas forums more where everyone is more civil and respecful of each other, and only start slamming people when they are clearly clowns out to disrupt the peace.


    Agree.

    ../azul123

  13. #13
    Member BlueBull's Avatar
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    Default Re: how far should a "newbie" tag allow one to get away with?

    "What Camera Should I Get?"
    Nikanon D3FXMarkIIIDS-1H with 5000mm f/128 & 0.500mm Macro f/0.4 & 0.70-2000mm f/256

  14. #14

    Default Re: how far should a "newbie" tag allow one to get away with?

    Quote Originally Posted by antacid View Post
    well, my mother always says, "if you have nothing good to say, don't say anything"

    not that i always listen to my mom...but if you think it's a useless or stupid thread, just ignore it. do you really think the world will be a better place when you tell someone he's asking a stupid question?

    i find that i really enjoy overseas forums more where everyone is more civil and respecful of each other, and only start slamming people when they are clearly clowns out to disrupt the peace.
    yes.

    as long as the person who knows he's asking a stupid question learns, then the reprimand will be worth it. and there will be people who will acknowledge it, and others who will deny it. so? let's just use the starfish story, as long as one is saved, it is ALWAYS worth the effort.

    actually, you should go take a look at dpreview forums. sometimes the slamming is really amusing, especially when it comes to brands. here the brand pride is amazingly, if it is even possible, to a lesser degree.

  15. #15

    Default Re: how far should a "newbie" tag allow one to get away with?

    Well, the problem is not with the message, but with the way it's delivered, isn't it? While the unhappiness at being talked down to is understandable, a person who can't see the real message from the delivery has a problem too. Didn't anyone here serve in the Army where the sergeants, CSM's and RSM's talk down to you, shout at you, scream at you? Of course it hurt the first few times, but did you let it affect you after a while? If so, NS would have been very miserable for all of the years.

  16. #16
    Member patch17's Avatar
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    Default Re: how far should a "newbie" tag allow one to get away with?

    although i've been shooting on and off for a number of years, i still consider myself a newbie when it comes to photography. there's just so much to this craft, that one just keeps on learning new things.

    i admit, i too have requested some advice on which dslr to purchace, it being my first dslr. i just wanted to find out the pros, cons and nuances of the models i had in mind from those who were using them and were more familiar with the equipment.

    yes, i've learnt that a bit of research does help narrow down the choice from the myriad of models available, and i guess this is all we ask. in the end, i went down to a few shops, tried out the models i selected, spoke to a few people, got their prices and went home to think about it. simple as that. but in any case the feed back i got from the forum was very helpful. i think it's a matter of asking the right question.

    at any rate, if the question is too inane, simple, basic, etc. you don't have to post a reply. if you need to rant, do it in a new thread aimed at the posters in general instead of individuals.

    in closing, my favourite question was "is it 'shuttle' or 'shutter' speed?" pick up any, ANY, photo mag or book and you'll have the answer right in your face.

    just my 2 cents.
    Today is a gift; that's why it's called the present.
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  17. #17

    Default Re: how far should a "newbie" tag allow one to get away with?

    yes, i agree that there's so much to learn. and everyone else always has something to offer.

    let me clarify that i am absolutely ok with people who at least have a rough idea what they want to buy. say, take for example, consider:

    1) hi i am new here and i have been reading some of the posts here and i have finally decided that i want to take up photography. however, i am still quite undecided as to whether i should get a prosumer (have been looking at canon s5 is, and sony h9) or a dslr. wonder if any of the bros here could advise me on the matter.

    against

    2) hi i am new here and i want to take up photography? what camera should i buy? can all of you please give me suggestions?

    firstly - both tones are great. they aren't angst-inducing in any way. but which do you feel more revulsion for? the first person has obviously taken the trouble, shown his interest. the second, well maybe not definitely, but more or less looking to be spoonfed. so what do you do?

    secondly - how would you reply to 2 even if you want to help? this is like saying that you want to buy a pair of shoes. and then keeping quiet. so what do you want? brand? type? purpose? it is to me, indirectly rude, since you are asking for help, but you don't even know what you want to ask.

    the suggestion is to keep quiet. well if i keep quiet there will be other kinder souls (yes, kinder no doubt) who will reply with equally amusing replies like "buy d40, you will not regret it love love love" or lagi best "buy nikon d3, it is the best camera available today". i think i had done this in the past the best way i could - i say very nicely that they need to be more focused and selective than just that, and well, they continue asking for a recommendation anyway. and this reinforces their behaviour, i've noticed. most people who shoot off their mouth with such questions go on to start similar threads. for every tom, dick and harry question a google click away.. they will instead, take more time and start a thread on clubsnap.

    so what am i to think? attention seeker? lazybones? what would you want me to think? i think such an attitude should be discouraged. one might say that i am doing this not for them, but for myself, and i would not deny that. the world would be a much more efficient place when people learn to find things out for themselves.

    like they say

    give a man fish, he will survive for 7 days. give a man fishing skills, he will survive for life.

    what sort of "fish" would you rather give a man? once again, i stress that i am utterly self-orientated and would like to save the amount of time filtering through threads which deserve help and threads which don't. but it is a good excuse, is it not?
    Quote Originally Posted by patch17 View Post
    although i've been shooting on and off for a number of years, i still consider myself a newbie when it comes to photography. there's just so much to this craft, that one just keeps on learning new things.

    i admit, i too have requested some advice on which dslr to purchace, it being my first dslr. i just wanted to find out the pros, cons and nuances of the models i had in mind from those who were using them and were more familiar with the equipment.

    yes, i've learnt that a bit of research does help narrow down the choice from the myriad of models available, and i guess this is all we ask. in the end, i went down to a few shops, tried out the models i selected, spoke to a few people, got their prices and went home to think about it. simple as that. but in any case the feed back i got from the forum was very helpful. i think it's a matter of asking the right question.

    at any rate, if the question is too inane, simple, basic, etc. you don't have to post a reply. if you need to rant, do it in a new thread aimed at the posters in general instead of individuals.

    in closing, my favourite question was "is it 'shuttle' or 'shutter' speed?" pick up any, ANY, photo mag or book and you'll have the answer right in your face.

    just my 2 cents.

  18. #18
    Senior Member Leong23's Avatar
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    Default Re: how far should a "newbie" tag allow one to get away with?

    To TS,

    I somehow agree with you, there are lots of same old question repeated in the forum. Sometime i wonder why they don't do a search before asking.

    Question like, what is the best setup, cannon or nikon, recommand me a bag, tripod and etc.

    Some extreme one like you mention, ask ppls how to handle dirty LCD, VF.
    I nearly wanted to post a thread asking "Doing nature macro photography, always get dirty & sweat alot, what should i do?"

    So i just ignore them. Just let them "upsss" their question until they bored.

  19. #19

    Default Re: how far should a "newbie" tag allow one to get away with?

    Quote Originally Posted by waileong View Post
    Well, the problem is not with the message, but with the way it's delivered, isn't it? While the unhappiness at being talked down to is understandable, a person who can't see the real message from the delivery has a problem too. Didn't anyone here serve in the Army where the sergeants, CSM's and RSM's talk down to you, shout at you, scream at you? Of course it hurt the first few times, but did you let it affect you after a while? If so, NS would have been very miserable for all of the years.
    you make a very good point here that i will seriously consider

    we will try it and see how it goes

    the last time i told someone relatively cordially (quite unlike the manner in the thread linked above) that google was his best friend, and his information could be easily found on the internet.. or was it someone else, whoever tried to help in the appropriate manner, in a good-mannered approach.. ended up getting flamed for being no help at all. some people just want the answer.

    but we will try nonetheless. thanks for your contribution.

  20. #20

    Default Re: how far should a "newbie" tag allow one to get away with?

    Quote Originally Posted by Leong23 View Post
    To TS,

    I somehow agree with you, there are lots of same old question repeated in the forum. Sometime i wonder why they don't do a search before asking.

    Question like, what is the best setup, cannon or nikon, recommand me a bag, tripod and etc.

    Some extreme one like you mention, ask ppls how to handle dirty LCD, VF.
    I nearly wanted to post a thread asking "Doing nature macro photography, always get dirty & sweat alot, what should i do?"

    So i just ignore them. Just let them "upsss" their question until they bored.
    the best setup question is really one of the most ridiculous things i've seen.

    sometimes the funniest part is that they are posted in say, canon, asking canon versus nikon. bag-wise i could find it in myself to be more forgiving, although i never did recall having to ask anyone what to buy, i noted down that a lot of people were talking about crumpler, lowepro and ehhh what's that last bag brand tamrac, then went to compare them by doing searches on google. i think much faster than people give me reply also. the question i always have is - why do these people not like to think for themselves? there is no answer, because there is none. i don't think anyone can answer it either.

    tripod - this one i can understand. much less reviews out there for the cheaper versions.. so if one has trouble deciding between two budget tripods or say two manfrotto models it would be fair enough. the key point here is the availability of information. but if one hasn't even tried to search for anything and blatantly expects to be spoonfed, then i think one deserves a wake-up call. it will come sooner or later, anyways.

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