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Thread: Standard of Photography low?

  1. #81

    Default hmm.. communication breakdown..

    Just an observation from the various 'flame' posts/threads....

    People tend to forget this is an ONLINE forum, not a true physical group gathering to discuss pictures/equipment/whatever. (I don't refer to what happens at SEEDS cos i don't see flame wars there..)

    So when someone posts a question or photo for critique, all we have to go by is the typed blah on why he took the pic, or what the poster wanted (which tends to be 'comments pls' or 'just sharing'). Moreover, all we know of the person behind the nick (whichever fanciful nick he/she has) is the avatar, meaning of the nick (if there is such a meaning) and the previous posts by the person.

    Not much info to go on from there, agree? Cause not many of us describe ourselves extensively and exhaustively on the web (I own such and such a camera, I take pics for fun, I don't have much experience, pls be kind with critique cos I can't take honest critique - ever see such a disclaimer on someone's sig?)

    Contrast this with the actual Clubsnap gatherings/photoshoots/SEEDs. Where you meet a person face to face, freely ask all the information on the photos taken and the type of equipment used - ALL THE WHILE deciding in your mind whether to be respectful and tactful to the person cos he/she is right there in front of you, giving you instant feedback on your comment (physical gestures included). Therefore the feedback is moderated or not given accordingly.

    This is the power of anonymity on the Net.. it makes for some very rude/insensitive comments by people who normally don't say it in your face (cos they're cautious about your reaction).

    I think some people just love to troll in the Net. Cos they can't bear to give the rude comments in person... or remember there are live people behind the nicks out there who deserve respect too... can't critiques be given tactfully?

  2. #82

    Default Re: Re: Re: Re: Every coin has two sides

    Originally posted by StreetShooter
    Nah, all you need is a pretty girl in skimpy clothes.
    Yes please! Would like more of those, thank you!
    One-North Explorers
    | Leave nothing but footprints, take nothing but photos |

  3. #83
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    Default Re: hmm.. communication breakdown..

    Originally posted by argent2
    can't critiques be given tactfully?
    hi brother argent2!

    no. being nice at times might not be beneficial.
    from where i come from(Fine Arts), critiques should be as harsh as possible. and trust me, art critique sessions are very very harsh and at times, tempers boiled over.

    downright insulting at times.
    but u've gotta take it all in the chin and hopefully try to remember and apply what was being critiqued.

    it isn't a Critique Session for nothing.
    if u're afraid of being criticised, being on the receiving end all the time, then, don't show ur work in the first place.
    it is with the hope that critique sessions will turn u into a better photographer or artist.

    it is better for people to come straight at u, then for them to stab u from behind, don't u think so?

    alritey brother!!

    yeah babe yeah!!!

  4. #84

    Default

    If you want to criticise, you have to be able to take it back, be it in person or be it behind the keyboard.

    Let's see if Ivan would like to reply constructively without resorting to sweeping statements. No need for apologies.

    I personally feel the number of good photographs posted up here are incredibly little compared to the number of members.
    I don't think that many people will disagree with you on this. There are many people here who are new to photography or take it as a hobby, nothing that is really serious. I don't see anything wrong with this.

    Am I the only one or do other people feel that some of the photographs posted up here are nothing more than snapshots that people try to pass off as art?
    Can you define 'snapshot' and 'art'? How did you come to the conclusion that some people here are trying to pass off 'snapshots' as 'art'? I think some elaboration would be necessary.

    Sometimes, I feel the owners are not doing justice to their equipment. I was just browsing some of the photographs earlier on today and this guy had a Nikon D100 and another one had Canon D10 and both of them had photographs which they put up for critique and honestly, I felt both were merely mediocre snapshots.
    Enough said. Be it camera equiptment, car, house, or other possessions, these are just things that are related to the ability to afford or own them, not the ability to use them or even to use them well.

    You know what I do when i see these kinds of posts? i am literally ---->
    Let us see your photos and tell us which posts that you have seen that makes you .

  5. #85

    Default

    I think alot of surfers here are not even sure what a good or great photo looks like. Thats why the critiques are not forthcoming.
    no, not true. critiques are not forthcoming coz we leave it to the photog himself/herself to enjoy his/her work. and usually its a good TRI ! kekeke i meant good try...ive seen most of the works posted, i also like it as well.
    ie u like ur photos means u like it. nothing much to critique or what. and we r happy 4 u as well

  6. #86
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    Default

    Originally posted by Andy Ho
    Hi Wolfgang,

    What you've just pointed out makes every bit of sense. I do at times pointed out some tips here and there. I believe others are helping out too. Sometimes, people received it happily. Sometimes they don't. For those who don't, they either kept themselves reserved or they trash back at you. Is this necessary? I remember once there was a so called Professional Photographer who posted a series of crap pictures in another web site for criticism. After I gave a few comments, I was very much challenged by him. The truth always hurts doesn't it?

    Having been in-charged of a photo library before, you may not need to be able to take great pictures but is still able to see and discern between a good and lousy shot. But the honest truth is, how many are actually receptive to your comments? Not many, especially those touting a big camera and heavy lenses. It is the PRIDE and EGO factor I guess.

    Regards,

    Andy Ho
    http://andyho.clubsnap.org/gallery/

    wa lau eh brother ANDY!!

    spot on again leh!
    pride and ego part...very very true.
    agree with u!

    cheers man!

  7. #87
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    Default

    Perhaps, the moderator of the section should take the lead to critque pictures that has no response.
    They do view all the post in their section, right?

    Just a suggestion.

  8. #88

    Default

    i think each forum has their own audience. quite a lot browse both forums.

    but i prefer OS, coz there's fewer angry pp there...it's really scary to post comments here.

  9. #89
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    Default

    Originally posted by fallenangel
    i think each forum has their own audience. quite a lot browse both forums.

    but i prefer OS, coz there's fewer angry pp there...it's really scary to post comments here.

    well it relli depends on your tone rite..
    if everyone made snide remarks like ivan, it would be war everyday..

    not to say you shouldn't be frank in your statements but most of us are old enough to know what tact is..
    unless the intent is to agitate people ( now..why would u want to do that?)

    sarcastic remarks will of course get people boiling..

    then again some people just have too much pride..

  10. #90

    Default

    then i'd say the older crowd at OS can censor themselves better, ignore flamers and let them extinguish themselves, and be more tactful, generally more open..

    i think tact is important.

  11. #91
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    u make it sound like the people here are really bad..

    now why do u say so?
    well to be fair...i admit i don't read every post

    have been in clubsnap for abt 9 months and i find the people here are nice and friendly..of cse there are some quibbles here and there..But generally NICE is the word..helpful too

    i feel ur making another sweeping statement which is probably misguided or just biased..

    try looking from a broad perspective rather than just zooming in to the ugly side

    well..i have been browsing in offstone too..
    i would say tt the feel is different..a lil more cool if u like.. but a sense of aloofness ..

    i dont know much about offstone so i shall refrain from making anymore comments until i know the situation better...

    but i realised some regular posters there are regulars here too..
    Last edited by jherek; 3rd June 2003 at 01:04 PM.

  12. #92
    Member Andy Ho's Avatar
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    Default

    Originally posted by jherek
    but i realised some regular posters there are regulars here too..
    Sometimes I wonder why people have so much time.....

    Andy Ho

  13. #93

    Default

    Originally posted by Andy Ho
    Sometimes I wonder why people have so much time.....

    Andy Ho
    Post here to have fun, post there to be arty?

    * togu runs away

  14. #94

    Default

    you know why standard low?

    cuz we waste time posting these kind of threads.like me.

    maybe a "how to shoot (a certain photo) better?" would do good.

    shaddup, shoot, post, receive all critiques with a nod, and LEARN.
    Last edited by GreenEggs_n_Ham; 3rd June 2003 at 09:34 PM.
    Today is the tomorrow you worried about yesterday.
    www.theyummyphotographer.blogspot.com

  15. #95

    Default Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Every coin has two sides

    Originally posted by sbs99
    Yes please! Would like more of those, thank you!
    want photos of that sort, please go over there..,more than what you can HANDle...

    http://www.photoforum.org/

    Today is the tomorrow you worried about yesterday.
    www.theyummyphotographer.blogspot.com

  16. #96

    Default Re: Re: hmm.. communication breakdown..

    Originally posted by sadness
    hi brother argent2!

    no. being nice at times might not be beneficial.
    from where i come from(Fine Arts), critiques should be as harsh as possible. and trust me, art critique sessions are very very harsh and at times, tempers boiled over.

    downright insulting at times.
    but u've gotta take it all in the chin and hopefully try to remember and apply what was being critiqued.

    it isn't a Critique Session for nothing.
    if u're afraid of being criticised, being on the receiving end all the time, then, don't show ur work in the first place.
    it is with the hope that critique sessions will turn u into a better photographer or artist.

    it is better for people to come straight at u, then for them to stab u from behind, don't u think so?

    alritey brother!!

    yeah babe yeah!!!
    point noted, but you gotta remember not everyone comes from an environment as *harsh* as your course..

    The second point, which works for generally most people, is that constructive ( and i mean constructive )critique is best given in an objective and tactful manner. That's assuming you want the other person to receive, comprehend and act on your message. I'm not saying be wishy washy, but be reasonable!

    In my opinion, if you critique harshly only to have the critique ignored, it defeats the purpose of the critique in the first place, which is to improve the poster's shots. Then CS can begin to have a higher standard of photography in future..?

    BTW, make blunt and harsh comments about others when you start working, doesn't go down well with your subordinates, colleagues and other co-workers or clients very much...

    *people learn to be humble when they have mouths to feed...*

  17. #97

    Default

    Originally posted by fallenangel


    i think tact is important.


    agree...

  18. #98
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    Default Re: Re: Re: hmm.. communication breakdown..

    Originally posted by argent2
    point noted, but you gotta remember not everyone comes from an environment as *harsh* as your course..

    The second point, which works for generally most people, is that constructive ( and i mean constructive )critique is best given in an objective and tactful manner. That's assuming you want the other person to receive, comprehend and act on your message. I'm not saying be wishy washy, but be reasonable!

    In my opinion, if you critique harshly only to have the critique ignored, it defeats the purpose of the critique in the first place, which is to improve the poster's shots. Then CS can begin to have a higher standard of photography in future..?

    BTW, make blunt and harsh comments about others when you start working, doesn't go down well with your subordinates, colleagues and other co-workers or clients very much...

    *people learn to be humble when they have mouths to feed...*


    people do indeed learn to be humble when they have mouths to feed.

    i agree with ur pointers too. no worries babe! that is why i';m such a nice superior! hahahahaa

    yeah babe yeah!!
    cheers my brotherS!!!!

  19. #99
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    Default

    starting to get off track liao..
    haha

    but this is all banal talk anyway..

    hey sadness..wats ur profession..u were schooled in the fine arts? hmmm
    ...u mind revealing? u got me quite curious..

    my course of study involves critiques too and yes they can get quite mean..haha..but never relli got a bad one b4..
    cept when i didn't sleep too well ( grouchy) and i pissed off one of the panel members..
    too arrogant..he said

    so i have learnt my lesson.

  20. #100

    Default

    Just my 2 cents.
    i am registered with both clubsnap and offstone and have posted my sucky pics at both.
    there are a lot of great photos here and also lots at offstone. maybe the ratio of good photos is higher at offstone but there are more posts here. it's kinda like having a nice candlelit dinner at a nice posh restaurant. the ambiance and (often but not always) the food is good, but sometimes you get the feeling that you need to be at your best behaviour. you spend a lot of time figuring out which is the correct fork to use. clubsnap is maybe like a crowded kopitiam, you hang out, eat like pig. sometimes the food is good, sometimes it isn't. but it's comfy. that's my feeling. frankly, both are good in their own way.
    as for being equipment oriented, i would admit clubsnappers tend to rave more about the latest equipment..but even the offstoners still dream of
    that latest toy (admit it, we are suckers for gadgets).
    i do hope that the pros would not look down on the postings of us newbies. maybe our best shot is not good enough by your standards but we all started at this stage sometime or the other. when i post my shots , they are some of my faves but i know there are lots of things amiss and am hoping that someone will point out exactly what's wrong and what should i look out for in the future. please help out rather than complain that we are not good enough.
    at the same time, those who post should be prepared to accept criticism. defend your shots but accept it when the other person is right. at least give due consideration to what the other person is trying to tell you before you get all defensive.
    soory for being so long winded.

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