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Thread: Standard of Photography low?

  1. #41

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    and yes, you might be right. But pls do read the posts and words carefully. As far as I understand and know of, there's no one here who stereotype about having pro equipment and having mediocre photographer skills.

    Some are only stating the hard facts than pro equipment does not = good photographs and/or good skills. Period.

    As far as I'm concerned, both forums, ClubSNAP and Offstone have both it's merits and demerits. Both have different nature and "market".

    What matters is the passion and enthusiasm towards photography and the forever attitude of "Lifelong Learning"
    Originally posted by Parchiao
    My two cents worth.

    For those of you who start the yak and stereotype others about having pro equiptment and having mediocre photography skills, it is not your prerogative.

    It is not much different from cars and houses. Somewhere in this thread, some words suggests an underlying tone of jealousy.

    Spare us the rubbish.

  2. #42

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    Totally OT here, just some pfft from a newbie.

    Once in a while, I'll see "pros" wasting their time complaining about the same issue,

    "Crap Critiques here"
    "Licky Licky Critiques here"
    "Only buy/sell, no critiques etc etc"
    "No photos here, only equipment blah blah"
    "Lower standard here, Ox, Xo better blah blah"
    "Cs'pers don't appreciate arts blah blah.....yada yada..."

    Again ... and again....and again....

    Well, everyone need a place to start somewhere, try imagine if all the newbies like me rush into those "Arty Farty" places, I won't even know what and where to post! Prolly end up weeping alone, behind my monitor.

    As for the critiques, it will definitely improve if the "pros" will to share their knowledge, wisdom, drop a few words more often, at the right place, instead of kopitiam.

    Just put it this way, my number of characters used in this single post can fit in the replies for a few photos!


    - OT Ended, please continue with the war -

  3. #43
    Member Knighthunter's Avatar
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    Default Every coin has two sides

    I have a question:
    This thread started because someone saw lousy/mediocre picture taken by 10D or D100. WILL THIS THREAD BE STARTED IF SOME ONE TAKEN CRAPPY PICTURE WITH A40/CP2000?

    Do you all people thing that low end cam (pardon me) deserve bad picture and no one complaint about it? Blame it on equipment man!

    Do you people think that high end camera doesn't not deserve bad picture? Artless snob with $$$ cam?

    Be realistic, some people has mercedes as first car and some people only can afford Hyundai as first car. Everyone has their own standard and amount of money they want to commit for their equipment. If some bad picture/mediocre picture taken with expensive gear it doesn't mean that the owner not deserve good equipment.
    W204FL

  4. #44

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    Originally posted by ivan_limm
    Also, I'm afraid I might have hit a raw nerve with people who own good equipment but take crap pictures, so i'm sorry Parchiao if I have offended you
    There you go again, suggesting that there are people like me who have good equiptment and take crap pictures. What ever makes you say something like this?

    I don't go for expensive equiptment. Just one PnS, one manual focus SLR and still looking for some reasonably good lenses that by any means will cost only a fraction of some of the people's digital bodies or L lenses. As for the crappy pictures, more about it later.

    What I am saying is that you should not bring up the statement of 'good equiptment owned by poor photographers'. When you say this, you seem to suggest a tinge of jealousy of our fellow photography enthusiasts ability to own expensive equiptment. It is not an objective statement and is 100% subjective and biased.

    Stick to the discussion about the different levels of photography skills.

  5. #45

    Default Re: Every coin has two sides

    Originally posted by Knighthunter

    Be realistic, some people has mercedes as first car and some people only can afford Hyundai as first car.
    Reminds me of the merc kissing the MRT
    Gallery | Facebook Page Spreading the Good photography.

  6. #46
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    I'm on both Offstone and ClubSnap too. And I do not see any issue with either. If you are going to look at both for "standards", then it will be kind of silly, even childish. Look at BOTH forums in the larger perspective. Offstone offers a sense of more professional and "self-help" (can't find a better word at this point...). But ClubSnap is really more social in that look at the level of interaction... SEEDs, MOs, Outings, etc that draw in the younger (sometimes weirder to me...) photogs and enthusiasts.

    I will not dare to imagine myself as any expert or pro. But I want to see more interaction. Hence I willingly set aside time and effort to make it happen. http://forums.clubsnap.org/showthrea...threadid=34397

    So I'd say that if you think the standard of photography is "low", then do something about it. Talk is cheap. Do something to change the little piece of the world around you. .....you may find it fulfilling even. !!!

  7. #47
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    Default Re: Every coin has two sides

    Originally posted by Knighthunter
    I have a question:
    This thread started because someone saw lousy/mediocre picture taken by 10D or D100. WILL THIS THREAD BE STARTED IF SOME ONE TAKEN CRAPPY PICTURE WITH A40/CP2000?

    Do you all people thing that low end cam (pardon me) deserve bad picture and no one complaint about it? Blame it on equipment man!

    Do you people think that high end camera doesn't not deserve bad picture? Artless snob with $$$ cam?

    Be realistic, some people has mercedes as first car and some people only can afford Hyundai as first car. Everyone has their own standard and amount of money they want to commit for their equipment. If some bad picture/mediocre picture taken with expensive gear it doesn't mean that the owner not deserve good equipment.

    heheheheheeeh. Glad I don't drive/own a car.... Nor own expensive equipment.
    But.... oops sometimes take yucky shots, too.

  8. #48
    Member Andy Ho's Avatar
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    Well, well, well..... what have we got here? A heated debate? Well, let's put it this way guys...Why don't everyone just cool down and analyse things a little huh?

    With no offence to all who disagree with what Ivan has mentioned, I don't think you guys got exactly what he meant. I have been analysing this whole forum and that is why I decided not to post anything and see what the whole thing is coming to.

    Ivan I believe, is in no way discriminating anyone who posts lousy pictures here. I believe what he is trying to put across is the fact that there are a minority here who posts pictures with sub-standards to "show off", whether if it is true or not no one knows. I guess this is what you call feelings? It is a hunch I should say and it is just an opinion. no point getting all worked up.

    I should give much merit to what Dehuis has mentioned. This is our forum, yours and mine. We are here to share and not here to discriminate each other. We show each other support and motivate each other into progression and I strongly believe Ivan have no second doubts about that too. Don't get me wrong, I don't even know Ivan personally but one has to be fair and see things as it is and not jump to conclusion.

    I sincerely find the people in CS to be very nice and hospitable minus those who are here to create trouble (very little though). I love this site as much as I love photography. I try to motivate people in their photography and if it is possible, give some tips and advice here and there. Constructive ones of course. Why Ivan, Technophobe, myself and some others felt that there are some here who came to boast of their mediocre shots are actually gut feelings, or should I say opinion? Of course, sometimes proven gut feelings when people defend agressively for some mediocre shots.

    Why do I feel that? Well, like I told Wolfgang earlier in my post to him, I had very bad experiences from a now decommisioned forum. People put in pictures for criticism. Usually I would give very constructive criticism by understanding the limitation of the equipments, limitation of angles, weather, and blah blah blah...but, I say again BUT, there will be some who argued till the cows come home and some even wrote me nasty messages and told me to bother my own business. If I gave them very mild and constructive criticism and many of them could not take it, why bother? That is one of the reasons why I remained low profile in the Critiques section of ClubSnap. Tay Kay Chin was one of them very much whacked in the same manner like myself in that previous site that I used to surf.

    During that time, I was really depressed. I felt what had happened to photographers in Singapore? Are we here to take photos? Or are most here to play with equipments? I guess one should have a balance of both. I admit, I am an equipment freak but I first look for perfection in my photos before looking at equipments. What I meant was you pursue perfection in your photos before pursuing upgrading of equipments. But of course, if you have the money to throw, no one is stopping you.

    I guess that's all I have to say.

    Andy Ho
    http://andyho.clubsnap.org/gallery/

  9. #49

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    You know, on Offstone I can't find the kind of technical excellence in macro photography that is abundant in CS. Just look at Azone's Deadly Hunters thread. So what is this nonsense about the standard of photography being better on Offstone? It's just different.

    And if anyone thinks it's easy, please, try it out yourself.

    To be honest there are more "snapshot" types of shots in Offstone, under the guise of art. Just because it's shot on film rather than digital and hand developed does not make it better artistically. I can fake that too .

  10. #50

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    Originally posted by StreetShooter
    You know, on Offstone I can't find the kind of technical excellence in macro photography that is abundant in CS. Just look at Azone's Deadly Hunters thread. So what is this nonsense about the standard of photography being better on Offstone? It's just different.

    And if anyone thinks it's easy, please, try it out yourself.

    To be honest there are more "snapshot" types of shots in Offstone, under the guise of art. Just because it's shot on film rather than digital and hand developed does not make it better artistically. I can fake that too .
    * togu clap clap clap, bingo!

  11. #51

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    okie my thoughts. Pls not offence taken okie??

    I think this is not a fair statement to start off in the 1st place. Looking at standards of photography on any forum depends on the amount of members, experiences and oso the kind of pics they take according to individual's interest. In any forum u definately have a fair share of wat is gd and bad... look even photosig has lousy shoots so does it degrade photosig? i dun think so. Well true OS has much lesser members but most have gd photography experience which i do learn from oso. Tat of course raise the bar in OS. having said tat i oso believe tat CS marco pics r pretty well done in the expect as well the bar was oso raise higher with people like megaweb, azone etc..but then again if u look at it this way we have alots of members in CS of which some of which focus on MO, some on tech review etc ... every1 here has thier own agenda in CS. Newbie comes in start contributing and sharing thier pics does it mean the standard drop?? I have seen people in CS grow as time pass and tat is wat i think a forum is all abt to learn and grow together.

    Of course people like me, a newbie trying veri hard to b as gd as others here as well.. Honestly i can say when i started out this hobby last year my shots are so crappy tat it deserved to b spit at but do i have 2 stop here just cos my shots are lousy? if so i shouldnt b even posting anything anymore.. Well it tat wat sharing and learning all abt?? I thanks those whom has contributed a way or another to help me grow and learn in CS and to me tat wat a forum is all abt. Well everyone has to start from somewhere rite?

    Both Forums has its pros and cons. so live and let live, share your pics and critiques, enjoy your stay here help 1 another to improve rather tat wasting time in endless and meaningless arguements. Well i believe to make a forum a better place to stay everyone here should play their own part and keep the photographic sprit alive!!

    Cheers!!
    Last edited by jeffgoh; 2nd June 2003 at 11:20 PM.

  12. #52
    Member Knighthunter's Avatar
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    Originally posted by StreetShooter
    You know, on Offstone I can't find the kind of technical excellence in macro photography that is abundant in CS. Just look at Azone's Deadly Hunters thread. So what is this nonsense about the standard of photography being better on Offstone? It's just different.

    And if anyone thinks it's easy, please, try it out yourself.

    To be honest there are more "snapshot" types of shots in Offstone, under the guise of art. Just because it's shot on film rather than digital and hand developed does not make it better artistically. I can fake that too .
    That...that...that..that's all folks!!!!
    W204FL

  13. #53

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    Originally posted by StreetShooter
    You know, on Offstone I can't find the kind of technical excellence in macro photography that is abundant in CS. Just look at Azone's Deadly Hunters thread. So what is this nonsense about the standard of photography being better on Offstone? It's just different.

    And if anyone thinks it's easy, please, try it out yourself.

    To be honest there are more "snapshot" types of shots in Offstone, under the guise of art. Just because it's shot on film rather than digital and hand developed does not make it better artistically. I can fake that too .
    Hah...I don't doubt that.

    Anyway, as I've stated before long ago in another thread, a forum belongs to all its members, not just a select few. Everyone has a right to pursue his or her own interests in the forum. There is no need for comparisons between clubsnap and offstone or any other forum for that matter because diversity is better than conformity. What is the use if all forums served the same interests and pursued the same objectives?

    If one feels something is lacking, he might want to take the lead and attempt to steer discussion in his intended direction by creating quality posts to generate interest.

    Bitching about it doesn't serve much purpose except to divide the members and basically smacks of elitism or fascism.

  14. #54

    Default Re: Every coin has two sides

    Originally posted by Knighthunter
    I have a question:
    This thread started because someone saw lousy/mediocre picture taken by 10D or D100. WILL THIS THREAD BE STARTED IF SOME ONE TAKEN CRAPPY PICTURE WITH A40/CP2000?

    The original poster said:

    "Sometimes, I feel the owners are not doing justice to their equipment"

    Like Knighthunter, I agree fully that this is clearly the wrong mindset. Why should the fact that the person uses a d100/10d and not A40 matter? A more accurate statement should be

    "Sometimes, I feel the owners are not doing justice to the subject matter"

  15. #55
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    End of the day, I join a forum to learn and share. If someone smarter and better comes along, I want to learn from him/her. If some idiot comes along, I get to see how much better-off I am. Andy and Jeff have put it well - each forum has its own merits. That's why I'm in both. So take a step back and look at the rest of the world around. Grab your camera and go capture it and make better shots along the way. That's life!

  16. #56
    ivan_limm
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    well said andy!

    and parchiao, i'm sorry if I have offended you in anyway when I stated my opinion. but what are you trying to prove? that you take great pictures with reasonably decent but not expensive equipment? if thats the case, good for you and I think its great! but whats this "stick to the discussion of photography skills" talk when you are trying to justify your choice of equipment to everyone in this thread? as you so eloquently said earlier in this thread, "Spare us the rubbish"

    and to the more recent posts regarding the macro photography. its true that macro photography here at clubsnap is fantastic, but honestly, I'm not a big fan of macro (this is subjective and will likely start a flame war which i do not want to go to). To me, a picture is suppose to convey a message, suppose to be powerful, interesting and have meaning. The photographer should feel for the subject and moment when taking a photograph and capture the essence of the moment. Macro photographers will argue that you need good technique and its a form of art taking these insests, plants, etc. But honestly, are these pictures memorable to you? do they stick in your minds the way some photographs do(eg. the vietnam war napalm attack photograph, etc)? I'm afraid not, to me, you've seen one insect picture, you've seen them all. How often do you see a macro insect picture in "Life's 100 greatest pictures" or other such books?

    sure this is subjective but to me, this kind of insect shots are good for documentation or tectbooks, etc. But to me, they are not art. there's no strong meaning in the photograph. Simply, its a close-up photograph of an insect.

    just my 2 cents, and yeah, go ahead and start criticizing me for my OWN OPINION as i know there are many ppl here that are rather defensive and would rather have a flame war than to discuss which ironically was my intention in the beginning. look how this turned out. Maybe next time i should just mind my own business huh!

  17. #57
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    Originally posted by ivan_limm
    Maybe next time i should just mind my own business huh!

    Oh c'mon, lets do an outing lah. And help get one another's standards up lor. Or go down and enjoy SEED. Not buying anything can still end up with you learning a lot along the way..... IMHO.

  18. #58
    Member Knighthunter's Avatar
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    Originally posted by ivan_limm
    well said andy!

    and parchiao, i'm sorry if I have offended you in anyway when I stated my opinion. but what are you trying to prove? that you take great pictures with reasonably decent but not expensive equipment? if thats the case, good for you and I think its great! but whats this "stick to the discussion of photography skills" talk when you are trying to justify your choice of equipment to everyone in this thread? as you so eloquently said earlier in this thread, "Spare us the rubbish"

    and to the more recent posts regarding the macro photography. its true that macro photography here at clubsnap is fantastic, but honestly, I'm not a big fan of macro (this is subjective and will likely start a flame war which i do not want to go to). To me, a picture is suppose to convey a message, suppose to be powerful, interesting and have meaning. The photographer should feel for the subject and moment when taking a photograph and capture the essence of the moment. Macro photographers will argue that you need good technique and its a form of art taking these insests, plants, etc. But honestly, are these pictures memorable to you? do they stick in your minds the way some photographs do(eg. the vietnam war napalm attack photograph, etc)? I'm afraid not, to me, you've seen one insect picture, you've seen them all. How often do you see a macro insect picture in "Life's 100 greatest pictures" or other such books?

    sure this is subjective but to me, this kind of insect shots are good for documentation or tectbooks, etc. But to me, they are not art. there's no strong meaning in the photograph. Simply, its a close-up photograph of an insect.

    just my 2 cents, and yeah, go ahead and start criticizing me for my OWN OPINION as i know there are many ppl here that are rather defensive and would rather have a flame war than to discuss which ironically was my intention in the beginning. look how this turned out. Maybe next time i should just mind my own business huh!

    What a a lousy anti-climax, the hero at the end also just another wanker.......
    W204FL

  19. #59

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    - OT again.... -

    Just out of curosity,

    sure this is subjective but to me, this kind of insect shots are good for documentation or tectbooks, etc. But to me, they are not art. there's no strong meaning in the photograph. Simply, its a close-up photograph of an insect.
    Anyone ever posted in OS like "Standard of Macro photography low?" Or is that forum strictly for "arts" only? Not a member, no clue tho.


    - OT ends, please continue war... -

  20. #60
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    Oh give a break, please..... Or read signature below (if true).

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