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Thread: Six dead, including gunman, in US university shooting

  1. #21

    Default Re: Six dead, including gunman, in US university shooting

    The Right to bear arms. Such a simple sentence with very complicated and tragic consequences.

    The wild west hasn't evolved much since the 1800s. The mindset of carrying arms is a very archaic mindset, that should be left in its archaic period.

    Paranoia, insecurity, the strong killing the weak, and the weak needing arms to fight off the strong,... sounds to me like a Mad Max movie. With such cowboy mindsets, compounded with the very low barriers of entry to get a gun, sorry, scratch that... GUNS, such outbursts of tragedy are to be expected.

    Oh well. As unempathetic as it may sound, this is Darwinism at its most primal.

  2. #22

    Default Re: Six dead, including gunman, in US university shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by UandMe View Post
    Many of those shooters already have the intent to kill themselves when they carry out the act. They are just like suicide bombers, so the heavy punishments probably dun apply here.
    If the shooter didn't commit suicide but get caught, I'm sure he will also face severe prosecution in the US.

    The ways u mentioned can kill some people too of course, but they are not so easy to carry out. And nothing can bring urself down as clean and swiftly as a shot in ur own head.
    yeah. i still think the guns is one factor contributing. You people are right in saying that guns dun kill people, people kill people, but still, in cases like this, there is definately more than one guilty factor, and i believe right to bear arms is one of them. Guns are one of the most efficient killing machines that doesn't need much creativity to put them into action. Put a mental person behind a gun, it's a killer combination.

    btw, throwing electrical things into swimming pool quite likely trips circuit breakers, mowing down people with cars isn't easy since they can be dodged unlike bullets, and burning the whole school.......... i dunno leh, fire drills?

    unless they can be like saf lor, screen every soldier and see if they are fit to carry firearms, but of course it's extremely unworkable.

  3. #23

    Default Re: Six dead, including gunman, in US university shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by satay16 View Post

    btw, throwing electrical things into swimming pool quite likely trips circuit breakers, mowing down people with cars isn't easy since they can be dodged unlike bullets, and burning the whole school.......... i dunno leh, fire drills?

    unless they can be like saf lor, screen every soldier and see if they are fit to carry firearms, but of course it's extremely unworkable.
    hahaha, yar, couldn't think of anything else

    but are you sure people cannot dodge bullets or not

    this guy always manages to dodge every single one of them



    not just unworkable, btw - unreliable too.

  4. #24

    Default Re: Six dead, including gunman, in US university shooting

    People may feel less safer going into schools and malls. I wonder would it help if some folks start wearing bullet proof jackets as a deterrence. Perhaps the lighter ones with some form of protection, which may help a little.

  5. #25

    Default Re: Six dead, including gunman, in US university shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by night86mare View Post
    not just unworkable, btw - unreliable too.
    speaking of which, i wonder how dave is doing now.

  6. #26

    Default Re: Six dead, including gunman, in US university shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by night86mare View Post
    well, i could effectively kill everybody in the swimming pool (how big is that?) if i threw in some high voltage appliance.

    even faster than gun leh, that one still need to shoot and aim to kill.

    or i can just mow down people on the road with my car. or i can just sneak into the school canteen and light the gas stoves happily, literally burning the school down. i'm sure some people would die.

    the people with the intent to kill will be able to find a gun somehow. what you do do, when you ban them in a country which is not quite as well-administered safety-wise like america, along with its culture, is send out the message to people that only the ones with the ability to offend, not defend will have the means to obtain the ability to injure and kill. and then what happens?

    the root of the problem lies with the mind. in singapore, we ban guns, there are still murders happening. no mass massacre, but i suspect that's probably to do with the effectiveness of the heavy punishments meted out and the relative tameness of singaporeans.

    you are missing my point... completely.
    You are trying to say anyone can make use of anything to kill people.
    Yes, I agree with you. But that's not the point here.

    A gun, has no other purpose than to kill other people, like it or not.

    Parang, the main purpose is not to kill other people. All things in your other example are not created as a device to kill people. So naturally they won't be used as the main tool to do such job. A gun will!

    So just stop the legal rights to hold a gun, and definitely those kind of cases will ceased automatically. At least, it will make a job of a mass murderer more difficult. Only once in a while when there's a psycho really want to kill other people, then we will see something like Texas Chainsaw Massacre. But that will be very rare case.
    Last edited by amateur_photographer; 17th February 2008 at 12:14 AM.

  7. #27

    Default Re: Six dead, including gunman, in US university shooting

    i think people in US should go buy those kata bullet proof vest.
    5DMk2,400D,EOS3 50mm F1.4,28-75 F2.8,GRDIII 28mm F1.9
    www.flickr.com/jenson_goh

  8. #28
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    Default Re: Six dead, including gunman, in US university shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by amateur_photographer View Post
    you are missing my point... completely.
    You are trying to say anyone can make use of anything to kill people.
    Yes, I agree with you. But that's not the point here.

    A gun, has no other purpose than to kill other people, like it or not.

    Parang, the main purpose is not to kill other people. All things in your other example are not created as a device to kill people. So naturally they won't be used as the main tool to do such job. A gun will!

    So just stop the legal rights to hold a gun, and definitely those kind of cases will ceased automatically. At least, it will make a job of a mass murderer more difficult. Only once in a while when there's a psycho really want to kill other people, then we will see something like Texas Chainsaw Massacre. But that will be very rare case.


    Are we solving the root of the problem?
    Implimenting serve punisment doesn't do much in detering people i belive.

    Start from the root and work up.
    Educate the people,build charecter development..I beleve that should be the way to go.

  9. #29

    Default Re: Six dead, including gunman, in US university shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by dotaboy View Post
    Are we solving the root of the problem?
    Implimenting serve punisment doesn't do much in detering people i belive.

    Start from the root and work up.
    Educate the people,build charecter development..I beleve that should be the way to go.
    Such cases are usually due to mental instability of some people. How to educate people not to become insane?

    There's no way to solve the root cause of everything, that's why law and policemen exist.

  10. #30
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    Default Re: Six dead, including gunman, in US university shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by UandMe View Post
    Such cases are usually due to mental instability of some people. How to educate people not to become insane?

    There's no way to solve the root cause of everything, that's why law and policemen exist.
    Are you sure it's metally instability or bottled up feelings?
    Why is that there are so many of such shootings in the US recently?
    Like i say i blame the society which the states is heading towards to.

    If this was a case of mental instability then why isn't such case of shooting by teengers common decades back?
    Think think.

    It's easy to push the blame to the attacker but understanding the underlying issue takes skill and patient.

    I blame the person who push the buttom and not the one carrying out the action.
    That's my stand.


    You my friend are wrong this time.
    This has nothing to do with the law.
    Previosly,i've mention that many of this shooting are a result of outcasted individual bullied by the society[this is very common in the states]
    With such provocation,laws aren't goign to do anything.
    Laws are there for the sober minded people to abide to.

    With good moral and charecter building,we don't have need for laws.
    Anyway i see it,laws are there to make up for the shortfall effort to educate the public.
    Last edited by dotaboy; 17th February 2008 at 01:02 AM.

  11. #31

    Default Re: Six dead, including gunman, in US university shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by dotaboy View Post
    With good moral and charecter building,we don't have need for laws.
    Anyway i see it,laws are there to make up for the shortfall effort to educate the public.
    That's my point. There's no way to educate every single person to achieve that kind of moral standard.

    Out of topic a little, let's start with a simpler thing like educating all Singaporeans to give up their seats to the needy. U think that can be achieved?

  12. #32
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    Default Re: Six dead, including gunman, in US university shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by UandMe View Post
    Such cases are usually due to mental instability of some people. How to educate people not to become insane?

    There's no way to solve the root cause of everything, that's why law and policemen exist.
    If you had watched Moore's documentary when he was comparing Canada with the US, it was quite interesting. While Canada had at least the same percentage of guns owners, they don't kill each other as much as the americans do (in the US).........they do kill more outside the US nowadays :-(

  13. #33
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    Default Re: Six dead, including gunman, in US university shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by UandMe View Post
    That's my point. There's no way to educate every single person to achieve that kind of moral standard.

    Out of topic a little, let's start with a simpler thing like educating all Singaporeans to give up their seats to the needy. U think that can be achieved?
    So, because you think it can not be achieved we should not trying to educate at least the few that can be educated? We do need laws all the time to reign in on the people, and to get the society work the way the majority wants it to work. But this is different than morals by the way.......one can be immoral but still work within the law

    HS

  14. #34
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    Default Re: Six dead, including gunman, in US university shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by UandMe View Post
    That's my point. There's no way to educate every single person to achieve that kind of moral standard.

    Out of topic a little, let's start with a simpler thing like educating all Singaporeans to give up their seats to the needy. U think that can be achieved?
    You're right,we can't educate every SINGLE individual to the highest of moral standards.
    But educating the public as a whole is still as important.
    You can't expect everyone to be perfect but at least let's not further deterioate charecter development.
    I have no intention of sterotyping and but i'll be frank,charecter and moral development in the states are gone.
    Seems like people have traded self development with economical progress.
    Isn't this true?
    10-20 years back we have Good habits and courtesy champaign...and now?
    I don't see any of it anymore on the public transport..
    What i do see are commercial advertisment.

    Key issue here is still to instill the younger generation with self charecter development.

    I would advise you to read up articles and statistic on "bullying in america" or visit US based forums.
    You'll evetually get a clearer picture.
    Everything is segregated over there.


    Yes,offering seats to the needy can be acheive,more parental guidances,moral education..just bring back everything from the past.

    And no,what good is punishment for shootout when the gunner is going o pull a bullet to his brain?

  15. #35
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    Default Re: Six dead, including gunman, in US university shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by hongsien View Post
    If you had watched Moore's documentary when he was comparing Canada with the US, it was quite interesting. While Canada had at least the same percentage of guns owners, they don't kill each other as much as the americans do (in the US).........they do kill more outside the US nowadays :-(


    just to refute you.
    All swiss are suppose to keep a military gun in their household.
    We don't hear rampant shooting spree too.

  16. #36

    Default Re: Six dead, including gunman, in US university shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by hongsien View Post
    So, because you think it can not be achieved we should not trying to educate at least the few that can be educated? We do need laws all the time to reign in on the people, and to get the society work the way the majority wants it to work. But this is different than morals by the way.......one can be immoral but still work within the law

    HS
    Well, that's not my point. I just mean education alone is not enough, u need to prevent easy access to those weapons also to prevent such tragedies from happening again.

  17. #37
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    Default Re: Six dead, including gunman, in US university shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by UandMe View Post
    Well, that's not my point. I just mean education alone is not enough, u need to prevent easy access to those weapons also to prevent such tragedies from happening again.

    Tell me what black market is for then.

  18. #38

    Default Re: Six dead, including gunman, in US university shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by amateur_photographer View Post
    you are missing my point... completely.
    You are trying to say anyone can make use of anything to kill people.
    Yes, I agree with you. But that's not the point here.

    A gun, has no other purpose than to kill other people, like it or not.

    Parang, the main purpose is not to kill other people. All things in your other example are not created as a device to kill people. So naturally they won't be used as the main tool to do such job. A gun will!

    So just stop the legal rights to hold a gun, and definitely those kind of cases will ceased automatically. At least, it will make a job of a mass murderer more difficult. Only once in a while when there's a psycho really want to kill other people, then we will see something like Texas Chainsaw Massacre. But that will be very rare case.
    incidentally, i disagree with you, a gun has many other purposes than to kill.

    what you do see is a gun pushed to its extreme. even in counterstrike, a computer game, when i shoot someone in the hand he does not die immediately. let alone real life. its purpose is to wound and injure, and in some cases, eradicate. that doesn't necessarily mean that it's a bad thing.

    i think something being judged on its purpose results in an extremely silly value judgement. for example, i wanted to help xiao ming find his cat. in the process, because i was trying to hook it out of a tree, xiao ming's cat got squashed by a car after flying out of the tree. i had good intentions. my purpose was pure. does it make any difference to xiao ming though? the road to hell is paved with good intentions. there have been many good things in life which have been warped into evil - the most common example is religion, in every form.

    just because something has many effects regardless of purpose, a mix of good and bad doesn't mean it should be embraced either. neither does it mean that it should be abhorred. what should be done, instead of trying to shelve it and pretend that it doesn't exist (unless of course, you do it successfully, like singapore has done, and some other countries.. mainly due to the small population size being easier to handle to be honest).. is ensuring that the good is harnessed more than the bad side is.

  19. #39

    Default Re: Six dead, including gunman, in US university shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by dotaboy View Post
    Tell me what black market is for then.
    The POINT is u try to make it as DIFFICULT as possible for people to obtain the weapons. There's loopholes for everything, even ur EDUCATION.

    U tell me why there are so many bad-mannered kids today even though Singaporeans have to finish Primary school education at least? The teachers' fault for not trying hard enough?

  20. #40
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    Default Re: Six dead, including gunman, in US university shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by dotaboy View Post
    just to refute you.
    All swiss are suppose to keep a military gun in their household.
    We don't hear rampant shooting spree too.
    What I meant was they (theu US army) kill more otside the US :-)

    Switzerland is far away from the US, Canada is nearer and a better comparison as they had a similar history in the past. Israel people also have weapons at home and many european countries have as a self-defence, but this is not comparable to the US situation.......

    HS

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