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Thread: Macro - How to get more than 1:1 ?

  1. #1
    Senior Member cichlid's Avatar
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    Default Macro - How to get more than 1:1 ?

    Hi

    I am using a Tokina 100mm macro lens. How do i get more than 1:1?

    I want the ability to shoot in auto focus please.

    Had tried the Raynox 250, too difficult for me.

    Thanks.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Leong23's Avatar
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    Default Re: Macro - How to get more than 1:1 ?

    Close-up filter
    Extension Tube
    Teleconvertor

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    Senior Member giantcanopy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Macro - How to get more than 1:1 ?

    Can try going through the faq created by megaweb here.

    Each having their pros and cons.
    But generally as you go past 1:1, AF tends to hunt and kinda hamper shooting. It is kinda useless to me and i would not miss the function too much.

    On the whole there are two groups of devices that gives u mag past 1:1 : one adds more glasses your existing macro lens, and another adds nothing

    Closeup filters are convenient add ons, but the quality of shots hinges on the quality of the filter. generally the more expensive dual element acromats are the better glasses. The issue of decreasing working distance. I am sure u have some experience with Raynox filters already. For flat field macro lenses u might have to reverse mount the filters.

    Alternatively u can reverse mount a wider angle lens onto the front of a lens and act as a *multi-element close up filter* which in any case u still have AF and metering functions.
    U can reverse mount the lens directly on ur camera but you would have lost the AF / metering that u wanted on ur D80

    The greatest advantage of teleconverters IMO is the increased working distance. The additional of glass elements will like close up filters soften the final picture. I tried using a Nikon TC2EII before but the fine details of macro work are softened ( dats why currently scouting for a longer focal length macro )

    Extension tubes / bellows do not have any glass elements in between and removes the worry of having additional glass element in front / between your already tact sharp macro glass.
    Issues of decreasing working distance again, and bellows can be really a pain in the a** to deploy outfield, and is an overkill if you need any magnification less than 3x. Extension tubes give abit more flexibility but a shorter extension will give less mag.

    Either way nothing should go too wrong and will give u the results

    Rgds
    Ryan

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    Senior Member knpan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Macro - How to get more than 1:1 ?

    Hi can any1 share what is 1:1, 1:** ???????

    How do i measure, or know the minimum focus distance with this?

    For example taking ants, filling up the whole view finder and focused, what is the reproduction ratio? How do i see it?

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    Default Re: Macro - How to get more than 1:1 ?

    1:1 - the subject will appear at its size in the sensor of the camera. If it's 1:5, it will magnify the subject 5 times. So, immagine if you are taking a shot of an ant using a macro lens with 5x magnifiation, you can even see the eyes of this tiny creature. Just my understanding.
    Olympus Digicam

  6. #6

    Default Re: Macro - How to get more than 1:1 ?

    Quote Originally Posted by rgborj View Post
    1:1 - the subject will appear at its size in the sensor of the camera. If it's 1:5, it will magnify the subject 5 times. So, immagine if you are taking a shot of an ant using a macro lens with 5x magnifiation, you can even see the eyes of this tiny creature. Just my understanding.
    I thought it is supposed to be 5:1? But as long u can get the idea across is fine.

  7. #7
    Senior Member giantcanopy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Macro - How to get more than 1:1 ?

    Five times life size will be 5:1
    1:5 is a fifth of it

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    Senior Member knpan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Macro - How to get more than 1:1 ?

    hi eg of a 5:1 lens? So 1:1 is just an ants body

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    Senior Member zac08's Avatar
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    Default Re: Macro - How to get more than 1:1 ?

    Quote Originally Posted by knpan View Post
    hi eg of a 5:1 lens? So 1:1 is just an ants body
    Reverse mounted lens.

    20mm reversed on a 100mm will give you a 5:1 ratio. Watch out for vignetting.
    Michael Lim
    My Flickr Site

  10. #10

    Default Re: Macro - How to get more than 1:1 ?

    canons also has a dedicated macro lesn called the mpe-65 that goes up to 5x magnification too..
    Furry Photos - Photography for the Modern Pet

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    Senior Member knpan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Macro - How to get more than 1:1 ?

    i want to try reverse macro..but first thing i have no idea on doing it and 2ndly not sure if the lenses within my reach are able to do that.

  12. #12
    Senior Member giantcanopy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Macro - How to get more than 1:1 ?

    Quote Originally Posted by knpan View Post
    i want to try reverse macro..but first thing i have no idea on doing it and 2ndly not sure if the lenses within my reach are able to do that.
    There is a BR2A Nikon adapter that connects the 52mm lens thread to the body ( reversed mounting of the lens ) Ideally you should use the wider prime lenses such as the 20mm to 50mm. I think one can reverse a 55mm and get magnification as well. ( 16mm onwards the lens element start to protrude, and not to mention the fixed lens hood )

    If your lens does not have a 52mm thread, then you will need to step it down to 52 mm with a step down ring.

    You will however lose all metering. And in addition to that, you will be manually stopping down the aperture, which is not easy to shoot especially moving subjects when you are already tied down on getting focus manually, and yet plagued by the dim viewfinder.

    Ryan
    Last edited by giantcanopy; 10th February 2008 at 07:42 AM.

  13. #13
    Senior Member jOhO's Avatar
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    Default Re: Macro - How to get more than 1:1 ?

    1:1 means the size of the sensor = size of the object if it fills the frame.

    meaning, if u have a sensor that's 36mm long and u can fit an object that's 36mm long edge to edge and still achieve focus, you have a 1:1 macro set up.

    something like that lar..

  14. #14
    Senior Member cichlid's Avatar
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    Default Re: Macro - How to get more than 1:1 ?

    Quote Originally Posted by giantcanopy View Post
    Can try going through the faq created by megaweb here.

    Each having their pros and cons.
    But generally as you go past 1:1, AF tends to hunt and kinda hamper shooting. It is kinda useless to me and i would not miss the function too much.

    On the whole there are two groups of devices that gives u mag past 1:1 : one adds more glasses your existing macro lens, and another adds nothing

    Closeup filters are convenient add ons, but the quality of shots hinges on the quality of the filter. generally the more expensive dual element acromats are the better glasses. The issue of decreasing working distance. I am sure u have some experience with Raynox filters already. For flat field macro lenses u might have to reverse mount the filters.

    Alternatively u can reverse mount a wider angle lens onto the front of a lens and act as a *multi-element close up filter* which in any case u still have AF and metering functions.
    U can reverse mount the lens directly on ur camera but you would have lost the AF / metering that u wanted on ur D80

    The greatest advantage of teleconverters IMO is the increased working distance. The additional of glass elements will like close up filters soften the final picture. I tried using a Nikon TC2EII before but the fine details of macro work are softened ( dats why currently scouting for a longer focal length macro )

    Extension tubes / bellows do not have any glass elements in between and removes the worry of having additional glass element in front / between your already tact sharp macro glass.
    Issues of decreasing working distance again, and bellows can be really a pain in the a** to deploy outfield, and is an overkill if you need any magnification less than 3x. Extension tubes give abit more flexibility but a shorter extension will give less mag.

    Either way nothing should go too wrong and will give u the results

    Rgds
    Ryan

    Hey Ryan

    Thanks for your detailed explanation.

    Ha, now the next queston. What brand extension tubes I can get and roughly how much?
    Are there any compatability problems with different brands for using with my lens and the D80?

  15. #15
    Senior Member giantcanopy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Macro - How to get more than 1:1 ?

    Quote Originally Posted by cichlid View Post
    Hey Ryan

    Thanks for your detailed explanation.

    Ha, now the next queston. What brand extension tubes I can get and roughly how much?
    Are there any compatability problems with different brands for using with my lens and the D80?
    I have tried Kenko and Triplus ( essentially they are from the same makers. The exterior the interior exactly from the same mold save the name imprinted , heck even the fonts are the same. .. )

    The each offers a DG set of three extension tubes of varying extension length. The Kenko Uniplus works well as well offering 25mm by itself. ( I got a used Uniplus tube for about 30 bucks on CS previously )

    Here is a shot of my Kenko DG set, showing the 36, 20 and 12mm components.
    Replace the Kenko name with Triplus and u have a Triplus extension tube set.


    You can check out the BnS section here for better deals. The new ones are much pricier and may cost ard 180 - 190 for a set of 3. There are no lens elements so there is not much worries on used sets.

    Although they claim to not perform AF on AFS lenses but only with the older non-AFS lenses, somehow it works for my 105mm VR ( I tried the 18-200mm before and it worked as well) but of course slower. But AF is not really a necessity. Likewise the VR which works as well is not really critical. Importantly they will still resume metering with your D80

    Ryan
    Last edited by giantcanopy; 10th February 2008 at 09:40 PM.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Macro - How to get more than 1:1 ?

    Quote Originally Posted by cichlid View Post
    Hi

    I am using a Tokina 100mm macro lens. How do i get more than 1:1?

    I want the ability to shoot in auto focus please.

    Had tried the Raynox 250, too difficult for me.

    Thanks.
    Yes, you can try extension tube, bellow, high value diopter closeup filter or reversed lens technique. Auto focus ? not possible.
    See my Photo Gallery at the Clubsnap

  17. #17
    Senior Member cichlid's Avatar
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    Default Re: Macro - How to get more than 1:1 ?

    Quote Originally Posted by megaweb View Post
    Yes, you can try extension tube, bellow, high value diopter closeup filter or reversed lens technique. Auto focus ? not possible.
    I wonder how you all do manual focus, the yellow led keep flashing,hmm.

    Yesterday, I spotted a spider web with spider and tried to shoot it.
    I was using auto focus, the lens/camera coudn't find the web, haha...have to manual focus then when i get the web image, changed to auto focus and shoot.

    End result? Blur image due to camera shake...i guess one cannot be lazy, probably had to use a tripod for the above shoot.

  18. #18
    Senior Member cichlid's Avatar
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    Default Re: Macro - How to get more than 1:1 ?

    Quote Originally Posted by giantcanopy View Post
    I have tried Kenko and Triplus ( essentially they are from the same makers. The exterior the interior exactly from the same mold save the name imprinted , heck even the fonts are the same. .. )

    The each offers a DG set of three extension tubes of varying extension length. The Kenko Uniplus works well as well offering 25mm by itself. ( I got a used Uniplus tube for about 30 bucks on CS previously )

    Here is a shot of my Kenko DG set, showing the 36, 20 and 12mm components.
    Replace the Kenko name with Triplus and u have a Triplus extension tube set.


    You can check out the BnS section here for better deals. The new ones are much pricier and may cost ard 180 - 190 for a set of 3. There are no lens elements so there is not much worries on used sets.

    Although they claim to not perform AF on AFS lenses but only with the older non-AFS lenses, somehow it works for my 105mm VR ( I tried the 18-200mm before and it worked as well) but of course slower. But AF is not really a necessity. Likewise the VR which works as well is not really critical. Importantly they will still resume metering with your D80

    Ryan

    $30 bucks for a used one, good news for me coz photography ain't a cheap hobby

    PS: Wondering will it work with all my lenses, Tokina macro, Sigma 70-300, Tamron 17-50 and Nikon 50mm?
    Last edited by cichlid; 10th February 2008 at 10:10 PM.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Macro - How to get more than 1:1 ?

    Quote Originally Posted by cichlid View Post
    I wonder how you all do manual focus, the yellow led keep flashing,hmm.

    Yesterday, I spotted a spider web with spider and tried to shoot it.
    I was using auto focus, the lens/camera coudn't find the web, haha...have to manual focus then when i get the web image, changed to auto focus and shoot.

    End result? Blur image due to camera shake...i guess one cannot be lazy, probably had to use a tripod for the above shoot.
    Move your camera setup front and backward to focus the object.
    See my Photo Gallery at the Clubsnap

  20. #20

    Default Re: Macro - How to get more than 1:1 ?

    Quote Originally Posted by cichlid View Post
    Hi

    I am using a Tokina 100mm macro lens. How do i get more than 1:1?

    I want the ability to shoot in auto focus please.

    Had tried the Raynox 250, too difficult for me.

    Thanks.
    Is 1:1 that important if you're not shooting film? What is life-sized in DSLR context?

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