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Thread: For the 1st time in history: ultrasonic motor in the Minolta lens

  1. #1

    Default For the 1st time in history: ultrasonic motor in the Minolta lens

    "Feeding back the voice of the customer for the current product, the
    high performance which improves efficiency * functional * operativity
    substantially it is the large aperture lens. We loaded the ultrasonic
    motor for the first time as a lens of this corporation."

    Taken from :

    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Minolta/message/44028

    Last edited by ninelives; 19th March 2002 at 05:28 PM.

  2. #2

    Talking

    Hehehehe... they're making progress, but they're just about 15 years behind Canon. (300/2.8L USM in 1987)

  3. #3

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    ermm, u thought they can't make USM 15 years ago?

    reason is because Minolta motor is in the body and not the lens. hence, they can sell better lens at cheaper rate.

    minolta user don't have problem with AF speed even those there is no motor in the lens, because their motor in the body is big.big mean faster. any engineer here?
    Last edited by ninelives; 19th March 2002 at 09:32 PM.

  4. #4

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    Originally posted by ninelives
    ermm, u thought they can't make USM 15 years ago?

    reason is because Minolta motor is in the body and not the lens. hence, they can sell better lens at cheaper rate.
    But with motor built in the lens... these minolta lens will at least cost twice.

  5. #5

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    Originally posted by extreme2


    But with motor built in the lens... these minolta lens will at least cost twice.
    not twice but more expensive. it is like that wat.

    wat about nikon and canon? is usm much expensive than non-usm?

  6. #6

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    Originally posted by ninelives
    not twice but more expensive. it is like that wat.

    wat about nikon and canon? is usm much expensive than non-usm?
    Yar lor... more parts more expensive.

  7. #7
    ClubSNAP Admin Edmund's Avatar
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    Originally posted by ninelives
    not twice but more expensive. it is like that wat.

    wat about nikon and canon? is usm much expensive than non-usm?
    According to Canon's list price, the 28-200 f/3.5-5.6 USM is S$50 more expensive than its non-USM counterpart. Not significant all at if you ask me, remember, this is list price, not street price. So any argument about Minolta saving money for its customers is a moot point really.

    I think the only reason that Minolta didn't put any motor in its lenses is because of the way its camera system was designed, i.e. no real need for an additional motor in the lens itself.

  8. #8

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    Originally posted by Edmund
    According to Canon's list price, the 28-200 f/3.5-5.6 non-USM is S$50 more expensive than its USM counterpart.
    non-usm more expensive than USM ? Interesting.

  9. #9
    ClubSNAP Admin Edmund's Avatar
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    Originally posted by ninelives

    non-usm more expensive than USM ? Interesting.
    Opps opps.. mistyped.. paiseh

    Corrected it liao..

  10. #10

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    Personally, I love USM lenses. It's good to see some competition to Canon, else they will be sitting on their laurels doing nothing.

    Tried some body driven lenses (28-105 Nikkor and 70-300 Nikkor) on a friend's F90x, but after using USM lenses, it is a pain to use non-USM lenses, specially the noisy body driven Nikkors. The point is not really whether the motor is in the body or the lens, but the advantage USM motors have : they are absolutely silent, very fast, silky smooth operating and allow full time manual focusing.

    It would be great to see Minolta come up with some low end affordable consumer range USM lenses like Canon's 24-85, 28-105, 20-35, etc. Nice, fast and affordable, and most people can afford these.

    Any idea about compatibility with existing bodies, or are they going to mess it all up like Nikon?

  11. #11

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    Originally posted by sriram

    Any idea about compatibility with existing bodies, or are they going to mess it all up like Nikon?
    good question. But these SSM lens is only prototype. expert said that Dyanx 4,5,7 will work with this SSM or vice versa but not Dynax 9.

    Well..........

  12. #12

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    Originally posted by ninelives


    good question. But these SSM lens is only prototype. expert said that Dyanx 4,5,7 will work with this SSM or vice versa but not Dynax 9.

    Well..........
    Can anyone translate this page: http://www.minolta.com/japan/press02...2-03-19_j.html

    Some details there, but it is in Japanese. Yeah, it's a shame that their top of the line camera won't work with the SSM lenses. It is very strange, since the SSM lenses listed are all pro f/2.8 zooms and a 300/2.8, which are more likely to be used by pros with a Dynax 9. Looks like they are going the Nikon way

  13. #13

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    I'm not sure if anyone here would agree with me, but just entertain me for a while.... USM is not faster than screwdriver lenses all the time, but USM gives the impression of faster AF due to the lack of sound... what do you guys think ?
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  14. #14
    ClubSNAP Admin Edmund's Avatar
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    Originally posted by sriram
    Can anyone translate this page: http://www.minolta.com/japan/press02...2-03-19_j.html
    Here.. translated using Babelfish on AltaVista (yes, i know that isn't the most accurate, but it does give us a better chance of understand all that "foreign" language.. )

    PS: Do note that some of the gibberish are there because of their Japanese names.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    " PHOTO EXPO 2002 " guide of exhibition

    March 19 of 2002 day
    The Minolta corporation

    The Minolta corporation (president: Ota justice victory), it is held from March 22nd the " PHOTO EXPO2002 " being similar, we inform about the fact that it exhibits the new product below in addition to the current product.

    < New product >

    SECT. Digital camera
    * " DicMage 7 I " (March 19th announcement * April last third sale schedule)
    Vivid high picture quality, from the AF and approximately 2 scenes which into high speed evolved into high accuracy / serial radiography and approximately 7 scenes of second / ultra high speed serial radiography of second *, it sold in the July last year effective pixel 5.0 Mega and the advanced GT lens, with the Minolta individual CxProcess the optical 7 time zoom digital camera which such as 1 furthermore evolved " DicMage 7 ".

    * 1 Minolta (inc.), approximately 7 scenes / high-speed serial radiography mode of second is called " ultra high speed serial radiography " 2 scenes of knitting machine standard / vis-a-vis the serial radiography of second.

    * " DicMage F100 " (March 19th announcement * April last third sale schedule)
    Effective pixel 4.0 Mega pixel CCD * optical 3 time zoom was loaded, in the stylish body, the worldwide beginning * " the automatic tracking AF functional on-board area AF " of 2 and, the worldwide beginning * 3 the advanced automatic function such as the " full automatic digital photographing scene selector " is loaded with the compact, with simplicity operation, high picture quality the digital camera which can be worked while it is thinking.

    * In 2 lens one somatotype digital camera putting
    * In 3 digital cameras putting

    * " DicMage X " (February 6th sale)
    While optical 3 time zoom (37-111mm:35mm film conversion) loading, class worldwide smallest * most light weight and most thin shape * it achieves the miniaturization of 4, worldwide most speed * it actualizes the high speed response which begins the starting time of 5. Adopts crookedness optical system with the advanced lens of the new development which, zoom doing, the lens does not project before the full flat design where the digital camera of topic.

    * In 4 optical 3 time zoom digital cameras putting
    * In optical zoom digital camera of 5AF and LCD monitor attaching putting

    §35mm interchangeable lens
    * " AF85mmcF1.4g (D) Limited " (May last third sale schedule)
    By the fact that the sagittal flare is held down to the utmost being sharp from when opening, high contrast you show descriptive efficiency.
    In addition being smooth with individual aberration revision, the large aperture portrait lens which makes beautiful becoming dim description possible. They are 700 limitation sales.

    §35mm compact camera
    * " CAPIOS 160A " / " CAPIOS 140A "
    ("CAPIOS 160A ": February 22nd sale, " CAPIOS 140A ": March 23rd sale schedule)
    World's largest * the focusing area of 6 main subject inspection function of high accuracy was had, the 35mm compact camera which loads the worldwide first " area AF and " high magnification ratio zoom, achieves the compact conversion * lightweight body.

    * In the film camera which as much as 6 single-lens reflex includes putting

    < Sample only > Below, announcement of the product and sale time, price, details and the like are undecided.

    §35mm interchangeable lens
    * " AF zoom 28-70mmcF2.8g (D) SSM (tentative name)"
    * " AF アポテレズーム 70-200mmcF2.8g (D) SSM (tentative name)"
    * " AF アポテレ 300mmcF2.8g (D) SSM (tentative name)"
    Feeding back the voice of the customer for the current product, the high performance which improves efficiency * functional * operativity substantially it is the large aperture lens. We loaded the ultrasonic motor for the first time as a lens of this corporation.

    * " AF1.4x ~ telecon barter アポ (D) (tentative name)"
    * " AF2x ~ telecon barter アポ (D) (tentative name)"
    It is the accessory which extends focal length without these two telecon barters correspond to the above-mentioned 70-200mm and the 300mm, ruining the descriptive efficiency of the lens.

    SECT. Digital camera accessory
    * " The marine case for DicMage X (tentative name)"
    To utilize scantness " of the DicMage X " substance to the maximum, thin shape, the dustproof * waterproof case of small size and light weight.

    < Opening summary >
    * Name name: PHOTO EXPO 2002 (photo EXPO 2002)

    SECT. Tokyo meeting place
    * Meeting period: March 22nd of 2002 (gold) - 24 days (day)
    * Time between: Morning o'clock of 10 - in the afternoon o'clock of 6 (last day in the afternoon o'clock of 5 the closed place) * admission no charge
    * Meeting place: Tokyo big sight west 3 ・ 4 hole

    SECT. The Osaka meeting place
    * Meeting period: April 12th of 2002 (gold) - 14 days (day)
    * Time between: Morning o'clock of 10 - in the afternoon o'clock of 6 (last day in the afternoon o'clock of 5 the closed place) * admission no charge
    * Meeting place: In tex Osaka 1 ・ 2 mansion



    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    (C) Copyright 2002 Minolta CO, the Ltd. All rights reserved.

  15. #15
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    Originally posted by rueyloon
    I'm not sure if anyone here would agree with me, but just entertain me for a while.... USM is not faster than screwdriver lenses all the time, but USM gives the impression of faster AF due to the lack of sound... what do you guys think ?
    You couldn't be further from the truth.

    The screwdriver lens setup with its complex linkage is inefficient and loud. This is because the same camera motor (read:generic) is used to move all types of lenses, however large or small. Hence, this motor (not optimized for specific lenses, unlike those lenses with USM, AF-S), will be either too slow (when coupled with a big lens), or waste too much power (when coupled with a tiny lens).

    In your case, you'll have to use both the non AF-S & AF-S versions to see for yourself. The sound is still there, just alot more muted in comparison.

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    Originally posted by rueyloon
    I'm not sure if anyone here would agree with me, but just entertain me for a while.... USM is not faster than screwdriver lenses all the time, but USM gives the impression of faster AF due to the lack of sound... what do you guys think ?
    Not true at all.

    AF Nikkors that are IF designs have less glass and weight to push around than the non IF versions which leads to a noticable AF response improvement. However the mechanical linkage on the Nikon body is demonstrably slower than an AFS lens on the same body. The older non D lenses that I've tried are also more sluggish compared to the later D series, indicating Nikon may have changed the internal gearing ratio of the drive system.

    Judicial use of focus limiting improves AF focus speed, but it also improves the AFS lens speed so the performance ratio remains similar.

    There are also major differences in the internal motors of various bodies, the F4 and F5 have far more powerful motors that focus faster than the, F70 etc.


    Reference: Field testing involving a direct comparison between: F4s, F5, F70 bodies, 80-200/2.8 AF-D (one ring), 80-200/2.8 AFn-D (two ring), 80-200/2.8 AFS lenses tested plus 28-70/3.5-4.5 and 28-70/2.8 AFS using min-focus to infinity and moving targets
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  17. #17

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    Originally posted by rueyloon
    I'm not sure if anyone here would agree with me, but just entertain me for a while.... USM is not faster than screwdriver lenses all the time, but USM gives the impression of faster AF due to the lack of sound... what do you guys think ?
    Nope. I own and use a few non-USM lenses and they are definitely slower than USM lenses. If you want to do a test, you're welcome to try out my gear. In good light, my 100/2.8 USM focuses almost instantaneously. Not so with non-USM lenses.

    See if you can get your hands on an 85/1.8 USM or a 100 f/2 USM. Use it with ANY Canon EOS and see how fast it focuses. I haven't seen any screwdriver lens come close to that speed.

  18. #18

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    Below is copied from yahoo-minolta group :


    The difference is between USM and non-USM simply that a USM motor uses
    piezoelectric effect to move the focus, whereas the non-USM lenses use
    more conventional electric motors, albeit so-called arc-form..

    ____


    Is that right????

  19. #19

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    Originally posted by ninelives
    Below is copied from yahoo-minolta group :


    The difference is between USM and non-USM simply that a USM motor uses
    piezoelectric effect to move the focus, whereas the non-USM lenses use
    more conventional electric motors, albeit so-called arc-form..

    ____


    Is that right????

    Dunno abt Minolta but Canon older lenses use AFD arc form drive motor. But it is probably different with screwdriver blade motor in body rite?

    Another diff is with USM you can use AF and MF at the same time without switching. means in AF mode you can still turn the MF ring and focus manually at the same time. You wont damage the AF mechanism at all. If try this with conventional lens by mistake, then AF mechanism is screwed.

  20. #20
    ClubSNAP Admin Edmund's Avatar
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    Originally posted by kraterz
    Another diff is with USM you can use AF and MF at the same time without switching. means in AF mode you can still turn the MF ring and focus manually at the same time. You wont damage the AF mechanism at all. If try this with conventional lens by mistake, then AF mechanism is screwed.
    If by using "AF & MF at the same time without switching" you mean Canon's FT-M (Full-Time Manual focusing), this is only available with lenses that use Ring-type USM rather than micro USM.

    However, do note that while turning the focusing ring of lenses with micro USM (with AF activated) has no effect on the focusing part, it will not damage the motor either. (Although I don't suggest you do it too often. )

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