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Thread: Singapore's airport closes for 1 hr as F16 jets intercept plane

  1. #41
    Senior Member sammy888's Avatar
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    Default Re: Singapore's airport closes for 1 hr as F16 jets intercept plane

    Quote Originally Posted by calebk View Post
    Ahh. Okay. Thanks for the enlightenment.

    So, what happens if the computer, for any reason, should fail? Does this mean the pilot cannot land the plane safely?
    Fault tolerant to control failure is usually through the use of multiple redundancy. An aircraft may have four or five complete computer systems, or channels to fall back on. If something fails, the system automatically reconfigures itself, taking the faulty components out of the play. This also includes backup for fly-by-wire controls too.

    In fact all this controlling is not so good and fail-safe, that is why they said the only weak link found in the fighter jet is really the human being. Thus there are already news about the next generation of fighters being totally without pilots. They would be controlled total from the ground like those small remote spy plane like the Predator used in the Iraq or Afganistan war.

  2. #42
    Senior Member denniskee's Avatar
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    Default Re: Singapore's airport closes for 1 hr as F16 jets intercept plane

    Quote Originally Posted by mohgui View Post
    hmmm... makes sense too. some play in words could picture a totally different picture. if the Cessna is not in Singapore airspace at the point of interception, then it could be... oh no...
    singapore is but a small dot.

    unlike other country, big land, still got time to shoot it down even if it has enter the land (ie already in the air space, pass the water line, into land space).

    how many seconds does a jet plane takes to fly from changi to tuas?
    photography makes one sees things from all angles.

  3. #43

    Default Re: Singapore's airport closes for 1 hr as F16 jets intercept plane

    Let me explain briefly what is the requirement on flight planning in control airspace and what I perceived to have happened on this interception.

    1. Before an aircraft taking off, a flight plan is required detailing its routes , pax on board , destination etc. This is submitted to the flight planning section of the airport of departure for approval before the aircraft is allowed to take off. This flight plan is also transmitted to the airspace controlling agencies along the route and the destination airport.

    2. After takeoff , all aircraft are required to contact the appropriate airspace controlling agency during transit through the airspace(s) the route is passing through . Singapore Air Traffic control has the responsibility of controlling and the safe separation of aircrafts within the control zone that it is responsible for. This control zone and approach zone to an airport is not necessary restricted to the national airspace, it could be extended well beyond the national airspace. Aircrafts coming into the control zone are under radar control and require to contact Singapore Air Traffic Control to received instructions for its approach into our airport.

    3. The Cessna in question apparently had taken off from KS without a flight plan or the flight plan was not transmitted to Singapore . When it appeared on Singapore air traffic radar entering into Singapore air control region, the air traffic controller was not aware of its flight plan, intention or destination . The Joint Air traffic control center must have failed to contact the aircraft on radio as well, hence initiated a chain of actions that led to the scrambling of the F16D on standby to visually identify the UFO. In such instances , we should assume that the UFO's intention is hostile until proven otherwise.

    4. All licensed pilots are trained and required to be familiar with what they should do in the event of partial or total lost of communication. If the intercepted aircraft has a working standby radio it would have replied to the air traffic controlling agency or broadcast on the emergency frequency to either the air traffic controller or the F16 on its intention. In such instances , we should assume that its intention is hostile until proven otherwise. In the even of total communication failure there is a set of manoeuvres the aircraft is supposed to carry out to indicate to the controlling agency that it has total communication failure. It appeared that the cessna has total comms failure and may/may not have carried out the lost comms procedure.

    5. There is also a set of procedure(s) for the interceptor and intercepted. Upon being intercepted there are a set of aircraft manouevres from the interceptor and hand signals that will indicate to the intercepted aircraft what he is to do.

    Our defense system is on 24/7 alert. When you next go to bed or having a weekend on the beach , you must thank these dedicated young men on standby to guard ourselves against any surprises .

    Cheers!
    Last edited by Bluesteel; 25th January 2008 at 12:02 AM.

  4. #44

    Default Re: Singapore's airport closes for 1 hr as F16 jets intercept plane

    Quote Originally Posted by mohgui View Post
    sheet... 2 F16s intercepting a small Cessna? kinda overkill i think...

    bet the Cessna's pilot must be peeing in his pants. i wonder how the jets maintained speed with the Cessna

    must be difficult at times to nose up and fly straight.
    Eh.. If they put a chunk of radioactive material inside and just let it blow up in singapore.. You will die.
    Meow!

  5. #45
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    Default Re: Singapore's airport closes for 1 hr as F16 jets intercept plane

    guys... don't get me wrong when i mentioned it's an overkill by sending 2 F16s to intercept a small Cessna. i was merely joking lah. comon... 2 F16s on a small Cessna? this would scare the hell out of the Cessna's pilot.

    i think 2 F5s would easily do the job too. btw, are the F5s here really out of commissioned already ar?

  6. #46

    Default Re: Singapore's airport closes for 1 hr as F16 jets intercept plane

    Quote Originally Posted by mohgui View Post
    erm... maybe the pilot on the left holds up a note reading, "Look to your right and do whatever we tell you".

    and the pilot on the right could be pointing a gun at the Cessna and signaling the pilot to follow
    with hind sight and s.t., jets are also armed with guns which fires 20mm rounds. enough to 'obey'. unless, one has sinister motivations.

  7. #47

    Default Re: Singapore's airport closes for 1 hr as F16 jets intercept plane

    Hi

    comon... 2 F16s on a small Cessna? this would scare the hell out of the Cessna's pilot.
    I would rather put it as : These 2 Cessna pilots and its aircraft scared the hell out of a whole nation of Singaporeans. Any country with an air defense will react likewise. No excuse whatsoever to fly without a flight plan with the current threat of terrorism worldwide.

    i think 2 F5s would easily do the job too. btw, are the F5s here really out of commissioned already ar?
    I do not think it is economical nor tactically sound to have various types of aircraft standing by 24/7 just to cater for various likely airborne threats. The UFO can be anything, and difficult to classify if it is a fast or slow threat and its capabilities. You will always use your best equipment on hand to deal with such potential threat.


    Cheers!
    Last edited by Bluesteel; 24th January 2008 at 02:08 PM.

  8. #48
    Senior Member Canew's Avatar
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    Default Re: Singapore's airport closes for 1 hr as F16 jets intercept plane

    I have a noob question relating to this incident. I never thought that a small plane like the Cessna could fly from Thailand, all the way to Singapore.

    Q: Does the Cessna have the range to fly from Thailand to Singapore?

  9. #49
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    Default Re: Singapore's airport closes for 1 hr as F16 jets intercept plane

    i must tell u from my experience : our border security is damm good, alert and ready.

    years back, i was driving my boat along the straits of johor one dark night around 3am, as it was at very slow speed, there is very little noise from my motor... suddenly !! bright flood lights were directed at me ! it was the Police Coast Guard ! and they sailed towards me at great speed ! they came alongside and looked at me and my little fishing motorised sampan, two policemen came on the deck and shine torchlights at my stores, one was armed with a sub-machine gun. After some checking, they decided to sail away...

    from this experience, i can say our Singapore is watched very closely day and night.

  10. #50
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    Default Re: Singapore's airport closes for 1 hr as F16 jets intercept plane

    Quote Originally Posted by raincool2005 View Post
    i must tell u from my experience : our border security is damm good, alert and ready.

    years back, i was driving my boat along the straits of johor one dark night around 3am, as it was at very slow speed, there is very little noise from my motor... suddenly !! bright flood lights were directed at me ! it was the Police Coast Guard ! and they sailed towards me at great speed ! they came alongside and looked at me and my little fishing motorised sampan, two policemen came on the deck and shine torchlights at my stores, one was armed with a sub-machine gun. After some checking, they decided to sail away...

    from this experience, i can say our Singapore is watched very closely day and night.
    hahaha... reminds me of a scene from LOST where the others came in their boat and took Michael away.

  11. #51

    Default Re: Singapore's airport closes for 1 hr as F16 jets intercept plane

    Are the F 16 fully armed or just threaten threaten?

  12. #52

    Default Re: Singapore's airport closes for 1 hr as F16 jets intercept plane

    Quote Originally Posted by Sniper ShutterBug View Post
    Are the F 16 fully armed or just threaten threaten?
    Will you send an aircraft up to investigate a potential threat without any arms?!

    Aircrafts on air defense alert are always armed with live missiles and guns fully loaded.
    Last edited by Bluesteel; 24th January 2008 at 05:14 PM.

  13. #53
    Senior Member sammy888's Avatar
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    Default Re: Singapore's airport closes for 1 hr as F16 jets intercept plane

    Quote Originally Posted by Canew View Post
    I have a noob question relating to this incident. I never thought that a small plane like the Cessna could fly from Thailand, all the way to Singapore.

    Q: Does the Cessna have the range to fly from Thailand to Singapore?
    With long range tank it is estimated it can do about 1000km to 1200km but this depend on your flying pattern. Like how fast, at what altitude and weather condition.

  14. #54

    Default Re: Singapore's airport closes for 1 hr as F16 jets intercept plane

    Quote Originally Posted by raincool2005 View Post
    i must tell u from my experience : our border security is damm good, alert and ready.

    years back, i was driving my boat along the straits of johor one dark night around 3am, as it was at very slow speed, there is very little noise from my motor... suddenly !! bright flood lights were directed at me ! it was the Police Coast Guard ! and they sailed towards me at great speed ! they came alongside and looked at me and my little fishing motorised sampan, two policemen came on the deck and shine torchlights at my stores, one was armed with a sub-machine gun. After some checking, they decided to sail away...

    from this experience, i can say our Singapore is watched very closely day and night.
    Small country is easier to managed, try something bigger like States, can't even afford to light up the tarmac road for the cars, don't talk about managing the waters.

  15. #55
    Member BlueBull's Avatar
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    Default Re: Singapore's airport closes for 1 hr as F16 jets intercept plane

    Lucky only sent up 2 F16s.

    Imagine one lost student pilot flying a little Cessna being intercepted by 4 fully equipped F-15SGs supported by 4 F-16CDs. The poor bugger flying the Cessna will be scarred for life.......
    Nikanon D3FXMarkIIIDS-1H with 5000mm f/128 & 0.500mm Macro f/0.4 & 0.70-2000mm f/256

  16. #56

    Default Re: Singapore's airport closes for 1 hr as F16 jets intercept plane

    Quote Originally Posted by Canew View Post
    I have a noob question relating to this incident. I never thought that a small plane like the Cessna could fly from Thailand, all the way to Singapore.

    Q: Does the Cessna have the range to fly from Thailand to Singapore?
    The Cessna is not really small. It's the Caravan float version, the bigger brother of the typical Cessna flown by YFC. It can carry up to 14 pax! With a typical operating range of upto 1,000 NM

  17. #57
    Senior Member xtemujin's Avatar
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    Arrow Re: Singapore's airport closes for 1 hr as F16 jets intercept plane

    AIRSPACE SHUTDOWN

    Two Aussies helping with police probe
    By David Boey

    A SMALL Australian-registered plane caused the 50-minute lockdown of Singapore's airspace to commercial planes on Tuesday evening.

    Two Australians, the only people on board the Cessna 208 Caravan float plane - which can land on water - are now assisting in a police probe.

    The security alert they caused between 7.10pm and 8pm - which led to two twin-seater F16D fighter jets being scrambled - occurred during Changi Airport's busiest period.
    There are about 30 to 40 aircraft movements an hour at the airport from 7pm to midnight each day.

    Aviation officials estimated yesterday that the lockdown led to thousands of dollars in fuel being lost as 16 airliners circled Singapore while awaiting permission to land.

    For BI 423, an inbound Royal Brunei flight from Bandar Seri Begawan in Brunei, the situation grew serious after it ran low on fuel, and it had to land at Senai airport in Johor.
    It flew to Singapore 1-3/4 hours later. Six departing flights were also delayed.

    The Straits Times understands that in Tuesday's incident, the single-engine turboprop float plane began its flight from Thailand's Koh Samui island, famed for its fine beaches.

    The Republic of Singapore Air Force (RSAF) Air Defence and Operations Command tracked the small plane as it flew towards Singapore, and it was quickly established that the Caravan did not have an approved flight plan - a 'red flag', especially since the Sept 11, 2001, terrorist attacks in the United States.

    At 6.42pm, a pair of missile-armed F16D jets, which also have 20mm guns, thundered off from an air base.

    They quickly spotted the Caravan with its massive floats - pontoons mounted beneath the fuselage - and signalled it to land at Changi Airport's central runway just before 8pm. Airport police immediately surrounded the plane.

    A Straits Times check showed that the plane was bought this month by Ms Mary Cummins, who co-owns a tourist adventure flight company with MrRhys Thomas, a former pilot with Australian airline Ansett.

    The company is based at Broome Airport in Western Australia. Ms Cummins and Mr Thomas could not be reached.

    The plane, which can carry about a dozen people, had previously been flown by an airline in Koh Samui.

    The Singapore Police Force said yesterday that 'two foreigners' who were in the plane are assisting with investigations.

    The last time the RSAF was reported to have scrambled its jets was in August 2003 - when two Super Skyhawk warplanes intercepted a civilian plane that tried to land at Tengah Air Base.

    dboey@sph.com.sg
    Last edited by xtemujin; 24th January 2008 at 06:37 PM.

  18. #58

    Default Re: Singapore's airport closes for 1 hr as F16 jets intercept plane

    Quote Originally Posted by reachme2003 View Post
    just wondering out loud how does the two jets force the 'intruder' plane into a certain course of action?
    Mayb shoot a bullet past the plane to "give it a resounding hello" ?

    then its a "you know wat u should do next"

  19. #59

    Default Re: Singapore's airport closes for 1 hr as F16 jets intercept plane

    Quote Originally Posted by Astin View Post
    If u are the pilot of a passanger plane, and suddenly got 2 fighter jets flying next to u and signal u, I bet u will follow whatever they ask u to do
    hmmm, some guys would still try to be funny ... think tt my method better ...

  20. #60

    Default Re: Singapore's airport closes for 1 hr as F16 jets intercept plane

    Quote Originally Posted by raincool2005 View Post
    the bill consist of fuel surcharge, plane maintenance fee, pilot flight allowance and GST ! sorry loh ! who ask u fly into Singapore.. lucky never land on expressway else must charge ERP also.
    for Changi Airport landing rights, use of Singapore's airspace, Airport police's car's fuel as well as OT cost, plus fuel for SIA planes which could not land due to airport closure, plus OT for airport staff to clear backlog ...

    all in all, think tt the pilots of the plane would be billed 1000 "peanuts" ...

    they probably will give up flying for good ...

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