My first MF camera

cairocks · 14th January 2008

Just got myself a fully functional Agfa Billy Record II folding camera over the weekend! My first MF camera

. It is so different to use compared to my SLR/DSLR. Firstly, the viewfinder is unable to check focus, just for composition use. Then the focusing, is done purely by guessing. Estimate the distance of the subject between it and the camera and turn the dial on the lens to the estimated distance! Then metering is also done by eyeball 101 and mental calculations although I did use my compact to double check my calculations.
Done up 2 rolls of film and will bring them to Ruby later today for development. Can't wait to see the results. But think I screw up at least a few exposure because I forgot to readjust the distance after the initial shot.

Some shots of the camera itself.

The camera open up

The front with the lens closed

The film compartment

P.S. Forgot to mention this is a 6X9 format camera.

waileong · 14th January 2008

Why use a camera like that? Even a Seagull can focus to a desired distance. MF DOF is so shallow, esp. wide open, that the slightest mistake in focus distance will give you undesirable results.

cairocks · 14th January 2008

Originally Posted by waileong

Why use a camera like that? Even a Seagull can focus to a desired distance. MF DOF is so shallow, esp. wide open, that the slightest mistake in focus distance will give you undesirable results.

That is part of the fun. To be less dependent on the machine and do most of the estimation/calculations/decisions with our eyes and brains.

Also this form of photography is one of the lightest, most convenient way of getting MF photography without the need to carry heavy equipments. If I go Tibet or any of those far away places for tour, I can carry my DSLR as the main camera plus a folder camera. If the DSLR fails for whatever reason, I can still take photos with the folder camera and get MF shots. And also to experience what popular photography used to be around 50 years ago or more.
Other than that, such cameras makes a great display item and a talking point in the house too.

Some links on folder cameras...
http://zuikography.blogspot.com/2007...g-results.html
http://galactinus.net/vilva/retro/index.html
http://www.cleanimages.com/articles/...tInYourPocket/

waileong · 14th January 2008

You wouldn't make such a reply if

a. you knew what a Seagull was;

b. you know the importance of critical focus in MF.

cairocks · 14th January 2008

Ok, you win, you win. Happy?

Dunno so serious for what? Nobody is comparing anything.
Undesired results? Never mind, I am wasting MY time, effort and money mah. If I am able to master using this camera, I have one more equipment that I can use where most people can't. Adds to my skillset only.

alternatve · 14th January 2008

Originally Posted by cairocks

Ok, you win, you win. Happy?

Dunno so serious for what? Nobody is comparing anything.
Undesired results? Never mind, I am wasting MY time, effort and money mah. If I am able to master using this camera, I have one more equipment that I can use where most people can't. Adds to my skillset only.

Don't let someone else get you down. That's a lovely camera and I know that you'll produce some lovely images as well. If scale focusing is too much for you, a external rangefinder is available for cheap. Just remember to get it in the correct distance range (metric or imperial scale) for your camera.

Samuel

Anjinnete Ross · 14th January 2008

I am a pure amateur. In my foray into photography, I was reminded, more than once, that above all else, I should have fun.

enivre · 14th January 2008

looks like a fun cam!

Sure.. critical focusing is impt in MF.. but I shoot LF pinholes without any focusing, without any mechanical shutters (i use my hand to open and close a lever), no viewfinder and I have loads of fun doing it!

Just hope you didn't pay too much for it

waileong · 14th January 2008

It's not about winning or comparing. It's not even about your money, time or effort.

It's about understanding.

If you want to have fun and skip understanding, it's your choice too.

Originally Posted by cairocks

Ok, you win, you win. Happy?

Dunno so serious for what? Nobody is comparing anything.
Undesired results? Never mind, I am wasting MY time, effort and money mah. If I am able to master using this camera, I have one more equipment that I can use where most people can't. Adds to my skillset only.

boochap · 14th January 2008

Wowow! very nice camera.. i hope to get one myself too.

dun be bothered with seagull, it's a camera of a different tradition from agfa altogether.

jamesong · 14th January 2008

When buying a camera with bellows, better check for light leaks at the bellows corners. You can't see any small tiny holes with your naked eyes. If you get back your slides/negatives and you see weired lights in your images, then there are tiny leaks, if none, then congrats !

ricohflex · 14th January 2008

This is a 6x9. It could use an accessory rangefinder on the flash shoe. Made about 1930. Now that is product longevity. Can you imagine using a digital camera made today in 2007, after 77 years have passed? In 2084? Sorry I won't be around to find out. Will it still work?
You can easily use this cam. Next time you visit KL, go to Chee Cheong Kai and buy the very cheap Russian made accessory rangefinder. Then focus is no sweat.

No meter? no problem. Sunny F16 rule.
The reflector device next to the lens is a Vertical look-down style viewfinder.

But novelty may wear off in due time. Never mind, you got lots of MF cams to try out and it will be fun.

cairocks · 15th January 2008

Thanks guys for the encouragements. Got this camera to have some fun and also as an introductory into the MF photography without spending too much, that's why my title to the thread is "My first MF camera". I am not bothered by the seagull. Eventually I might even get a seagull and UNDERSTAND what it is all about, and most importantly, have fun with it too. Photography is a hobby to me and it is to have fun first. Too much other things to worry about in life.

Bad picture, analysis what when wrong and then laugh it off, you can't get every picture that happened around you even with the most advance camera on hand.

Btw, got this folder from a friend that have lots of fully manual cameras, he has 6X9 and 6X6 folders, Mamiyas67 MFs, 1 LF and a Nikon FM (not sure which model) among other SLRs, DSLRs and compacts. Saw the pictures taken by this camera. That's why I am confident it is a working copy. Yea, he did give me a briefing on the various parts of the camera and the sunny F16 rule. Will look out for the rangefinder next time I visit KL. Meantime, think have to depend on my rusty distance estimation skills I learn as a scout during army.

And also, very important, remember to enter that when using the camera before each shot.

Vintage cameras fascinates me. It is more than just photography already. Think of all the history behind it, how was it produced, who used to owned it, when had it been to, what images had it captured before, what events had it gone through and yet it is still working after all these years.

boochap · 15th January 2008

Originally Posted by ricohflex

This is a 6x9. It could use an accessory rangefinder on the flash shoe. Made about 1930. Now that is product longevity. Can you imagine using a digital camera made today in 2007, after 77 years have passed? In 2084? Sorry I won't be around to find out. Will it still work?

a digital cam 77yrs later?
juz look at the condition of those transitor radios built 20yrs ago.
u are talking of a mechanically operated cam vs a electronic circuit board.

cairocks · 19th January 2008

Yes, got back my shots from the developer. Wow, the sharpness is really striking when the camera is properly focused and metered. Pretty good for a camera around 50 years old. Took some shots at the new Terminal 3 and the museum. Find that the easiest shots are those of landscape and distance objects as the tolerance for error gets bigger when the distance increases. Also got some shots with the subject lopsided cus was not too sure where to point when looking through the viewfinder without any frame markings and I took the wrong judgement on the parallax error. Need some practice and time for getting use to, especially for me that is so used to shooting WYSIWYG from a SLR/DSLR camera.
Overall, is a fun experience all the way from shooting to eventually seeing how the actual shots turn out. The judgement when shooting, waiting, the expectations, the realization and good laugh when seeing how the shots actually turned out. Well, it still remains a fun camera for the time being, cus personally not confident to use it for serious stuff, more because of personal skills than the camera. But I see it having the least problems for taking landscape shots. hahaha

enivre · 19th January 2008

Must scan some and let us see! 6x9 is a very interesting format IMO...

chiif · 19th January 2008

Yes... a picture paints a thousand words...

Please post some pics....

cairocks · 20th January 2008

Ok, got some of the pics scanned in. The scanner was not used for a long time and got a layer of fog thing on the inside of the glass, so image quality is somewhat degraded. Haiz...

First pic, also the first shot taken with the camera.

Suppose to take the cake, but distance entered wrongly, cause the scale is not linear. End up focusing near the promotion sign, but not there also. hahaha About those banding, not sure what happen, appeared only on the scanned images.

Second pic. Aimed through the viewfinder, saw the lower corner blocked by the lens, so try moving the lens out of sight. End up cutting away part of the window. But the got the focusing distance correct this time. Quite satisfied with the sharpness.

Ok, some of the better shots now, though the scanner still cannot actually reproduce the quality of the actual prints

These shots are more of a familiarization round with the camera, so not much attention is given into composition.

enivre · 20th January 2008

looks pretty decent for such and old camera!

14th January 2008	#1
cairocks Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 169	My first MF camera Just got myself a fully functional Agfa Billy Record II folding camera over the weekend! My first MF camera . It is so different to use compared to my SLR/DSLR. Firstly, the viewfinder is unable to check focus, just for composition use. Then the focusing, is done purely by guessing. Estimate the distance of the subject between it and the camera and turn the dial on the lens to the estimated distance! Then metering is also done by eyeball 101 and mental calculations although I did use my compact to double check my calculations. Done up 2 rolls of film and will bring them to Ruby later today for development. Can't wait to see the results. But think I screw up at least a few exposure because I forgot to readjust the distance after the initial shot. Some shots of the camera itself. The camera open up The front with the lens closed The film compartment P.S. Forgot to mention this is a 6X9 format camera. Last edited by cairocks; 14th January 2008 at 01:36 PM.

14th January 2008	#2
waileong Deregistered Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 2,597	Re: My first MF camera Why use a camera like that? Even a Seagull can focus to a desired distance. MF DOF is so shallow, esp. wide open, that the slightest mistake in focus distance will give you undesirable results.

14th January 2008	#4
waileong Deregistered Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 2,597	Re: My first MF camera You wouldn't make such a reply if a. you knew what a Seagull was; b. you know the importance of critical focus in MF.

14th January 2008	#5
cairocks Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 169	Re: My first MF camera Ok, you win, you win. Happy? Dunno so serious for what? Nobody is comparing anything. Undesired results? Never mind, I am wasting MY time, effort and money mah. If I am able to master using this camera, I have one more equipment that I can use where most people can't. Adds to my skillset only. Last edited by cairocks; 14th January 2008 at 08:28 PM.

14th January 2008	#7
Anjinnete Ross Member Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 65	Re: My first MF camera I am a pure amateur. In my foray into photography, I was reminded, more than once, that above all else, I should have fun.

14th January 2008	#8
enivre Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 1,687	Re: My first MF camera looks like a fun cam! Sure.. critical focusing is impt in MF.. but I shoot LF pinholes without any focusing, without any mechanical shutters (i use my hand to open and close a lever), no viewfinder and I have loads of fun doing it! Just hope you didn't pay too much for it

14th January 2008	#10
boochap Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: sg - bukit ho swee Posts: 1,303	Re: My first MF camera Wowow! very nice camera.. i hope to get one myself too. dun be bothered with seagull, it's a camera of a different tradition from agfa altogether. __________________ boochap@yahoo.com www.flickr.com/photos/boochap/; www.facebook.com/boochap

14th January 2008	#11
jamesong Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Singapore Posts: 311	Re: My first MF camera When buying a camera with bellows, better check for light leaks at the bellows corners. You can't see any small tiny holes with your naked eyes. If you get back your slides/negatives and you see weired lights in your images, then there are tiny leaks, if none, then congrats ! __________________ My portfolio: http://www.singapore2view.com

14th January 2008	#12
ricohflex Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: sing Posts: 1,537	Re: My first MF camera This is a 6x9. It could use an accessory rangefinder on the flash shoe. Made about 1930. Now that is product longevity. Can you imagine using a digital camera made today in 2007, after 77 years have passed? In 2084? Sorry I won't be around to find out. Will it still work? You can easily use this cam. Next time you visit KL, go to Chee Cheong Kai and buy the very cheap Russian made accessory rangefinder. Then focus is no sweat. No meter? no problem. Sunny F16 rule. The reflector device next to the lens is a Vertical look-down style viewfinder. But novelty may wear off in due time. Never mind, you got lots of MF cams to try out and it will be fun. Last edited by ricohflex; 14th January 2008 at 11:33 PM.

15th January 2008	#13
cairocks Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 169	Re: My first MF camera Thanks guys for the encouragements. Got this camera to have some fun and also as an introductory into the MF photography without spending too much, that's why my title to the thread is "My first MF camera". I am not bothered by the seagull. Eventually I might even get a seagull and UNDERSTAND what it is all about, and most importantly, have fun with it too. Photography is a hobby to me and it is to have fun first. Too much other things to worry about in life. Bad picture, analysis what when wrong and then laugh it off, you can't get every picture that happened around you even with the most advance camera on hand. Btw, got this folder from a friend that have lots of fully manual cameras, he has 6X9 and 6X6 folders, Mamiyas67 MFs, 1 LF and a Nikon FM (not sure which model) among other SLRs, DSLRs and compacts. Saw the pictures taken by this camera. That's why I am confident it is a working copy. Yea, he did give me a briefing on the various parts of the camera and the sunny F16 rule. Will look out for the rangefinder next time I visit KL. Meantime, think have to depend on my rusty distance estimation skills I learn as a scout during army. And also, very important, remember to enter that when using the camera before each shot. Vintage cameras fascinates me. It is more than just photography already. Think of all the history behind it, how was it produced, who used to owned it, when had it been to, what images had it captured before, what events had it gone through and yet it is still working after all these years. Last edited by cairocks; 15th January 2008 at 01:10 AM.

19th January 2008	#15
cairocks Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 169	Re: My first MF camera Yes, got back my shots from the developer. Wow, the sharpness is really striking when the camera is properly focused and metered. Pretty good for a camera around 50 years old. Took some shots at the new Terminal 3 and the museum. Find that the easiest shots are those of landscape and distance objects as the tolerance for error gets bigger when the distance increases. Also got some shots with the subject lopsided cus was not too sure where to point when looking through the viewfinder without any frame markings and I took the wrong judgement on the parallax error. Need some practice and time for getting use to, especially for me that is so used to shooting WYSIWYG from a SLR/DSLR camera. Overall, is a fun experience all the way from shooting to eventually seeing how the actual shots turn out. The judgement when shooting, waiting, the expectations, the realization and good laugh when seeing how the shots actually turned out. Well, it still remains a fun camera for the time being, cus personally not confident to use it for serious stuff, more because of personal skills than the camera. But I see it having the least problems for taking landscape shots. hahaha Last edited by cairocks; 19th January 2008 at 08:23 AM.

19th January 2008	#16
enivre Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 1,687	Re: My first MF camera Must scan some and let us see! 6x9 is a very interesting format IMO...

19th January 2008	#17
chiif Advertiser Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Excelsior S.C #02-25 Posts: 2,367	Re: My first MF camera Yes... a picture paints a thousand words... Please post some pics.... __________________ www.chiifcameras.com Voigtlander dealer My flickr

20th January 2008	#18
cairocks Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 169	Re: My first MF camera Ok, got some of the pics scanned in. The scanner was not used for a long time and got a layer of fog thing on the inside of the glass, so image quality is somewhat degraded. Haiz... First pic, also the first shot taken with the camera. Suppose to take the cake, but distance entered wrongly, cause the scale is not linear. End up focusing near the promotion sign, but not there also. hahaha About those banding, not sure what happen, appeared only on the scanned images. Second pic. Aimed through the viewfinder, saw the lower corner blocked by the lens, so try moving the lens out of sight. End up cutting away part of the window. But the got the focusing distance correct this time. Quite satisfied with the sharpness. Ok, some of the better shots now, though the scanner still cannot actually reproduce the quality of the actual prints These shots are more of a familiarization round with the camera, so not much attention is given into composition. Last edited by cairocks; 20th January 2008 at 02:30 PM.

20th January 2008	#19
enivre Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 1,687	Re: My first MF camera looks pretty decent for such and old camera!