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Thread: Payment not made

  1. #1
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    Default Payment not made

    Dear All,

    after helping out a friend for a month doing a few shoots, and him agreeing to pay me a lumsum of 900 bucks in Oct, he started disappearing after that and it was extremely difficult to get him. He even borrowed my spare D50 camera and did not return me until now. On top of that, he is refusing to pay me any sum of money for the few events I have done for him.

    With great reluctance I have finally taken some action by reporting to the police and he is finally going to return me the camera. But from what i know, for a small sum of 900 i would have to go to the Small Claims court if i really want to take legal action.

    as proof, i would like to put up this link
    http://www.innercircle.sg/photos/Car...007/photo.html

    Otherwise they can take it down and say they have not used my photos.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Payment not made

    Friends or not, learn to collect payment upfront or deposit when you're engaged on an assignment. Promises from some people can be empty. By getting them to pay in advance, it helps to qualify them as a committed party. Otherwise they can promise you the sky and moon and in the end you still get nothing.

  3. #3
    Senior Member
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    Default Re: Payment not made

    For $900 payment for services... I'd assume you spent nothing other than just time and shutter clicks, no money forked out of your own pocket for prints or anything like that...

    I would say the loss of this $900 is pretty cheap to see that this person is really not a friend after all.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Payment not made

    actually if they take down the site, having a link here is not much use as well...

    but is your "friend" the owner of "inner circle club", its manager, or some other capacity... if he/she is not the top person, then maybe can discuss the problem with someone who is... as well, "inner circle club" seems to be managed by "iMedia Asia Group" (as suggested in the privacy policy statement on their website): if your "friend" is not the top person at this organisation, maybe can also discuss with these people...

  5. #5

    Default Re: Payment not made

    Sounds like u need better friends.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Payment not made

    I would advise that you find a lawyer friend, and draft a legal statement (free if friend), and send it to him. Tell him that he must pay for services rendered as agreed, or you will sue. Most likely you will win bah. Also remind him that even though lawyers cost more than 900 dollars, you are willing to spend it to get justice. Also, he will loose more than 900 bucks because the evidence is so plain infront of him.

  7. #7
    vince123123
    Guests

    Default Re: Payment not made

    You have two causes of action here:

    1. Against your friend - breach of contract - this can be done in the Small Claims Tribunal.

    2. Against Innercircle.sg - copyright infringement - this unfortunately can only be done at the subordinate courts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rheo View Post
    Dear All,

    after helping out a friend for a month doing a few shoots, and him agreeing to pay me a lumsum of 900 bucks in Oct, he started disappearing after that and it was extremely difficult to get him. He even borrowed my spare D50 camera and did not return me until now. On top of that, he is refusing to pay me any sum of money for the few events I have done for him.

    With great reluctance I have finally taken some action by reporting to the police and he is finally going to return me the camera. But from what i know, for a small sum of 900 i would have to go to the Small Claims court if i really want to take legal action.

    as proof, i would like to put up this link
    http://www.innercircle.sg/photos/Car...007/photo.html

    Otherwise they can take it down and say they have not used my photos.

  8. #8
    Member
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    403

    Default Re: Payment not made

    yes he is not a friend at all.
    No he does not own the site.

    Yes Vince you are right. But i realise i made quite a number of mistakes.
    First thing is i lent the camera. I thought I could trust. This has taught me a lesson never to lend anyone. Second is, the jobs were mostly by word of mouth. I consulted a lawyer friend of mine and he says that even if its word of mouth, it is still considered a contract between two individuals. As long as i have some proof that i took the photographs, and there would be no reason for me to take those shots other than the fact that it was for a job. The other thing is that i would require some form of permission or access to be able to enter those places to shoot, which also proves that it was for a job. But it can be circumstantial also, and the person who hired me can still say somethings (which i dont intend to put down here to safegaurd photographers). Anyway it is still a hassle.

    The website owners are not the ones. The one i know is just the middle person, supposedly a senior photographer as well. He even borrow my spare camera, which is the d50. Borrowed it for a few events, and then He disappeared for a while. I had so much trouble trying to contact him after that. He didn't contact me to return it as well. He held it for around 2 months.

    That was in September. Around end of december and January, i called him up almost everyday.

    After that i decided to just report the case to the police. I was lucky that they considered it a CBT, (criminal breach of trust) regarding the camera so an inspector was assigned to this particular case.

    We were both called up to the station, and he was to bring my camera along.


    As for payment, I brought along a statement for him to sign and say that he owes me such and such and would pay me by a certain date. I told him that if he didn't sign, i would pursue the matter and also report to small claims.

    I believe he does not want any trouble after that, so he just signed it and right now i am waiting for the payment.

    The thing is, he claims that the payments are approved by a third party (some investor). What I am frustrated with is that the agreement was between me and him and he should pay me for the job, whether or not there is any investor involved. Anyway I have given him a bit of time to pay up, but that would be the last I will ever do favours for him.

    It was a good lesson for me. So guys next time, please dun follow my stupid decision of trusting blindly. PLease Adopt the COndom Method. Beetter be safe than sorry. Get black and white for all your jobs.


    Rajesh

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Payment not made

    Quote Originally Posted by Rheo View Post
    yes he is not a friend at all.
    No he does not own the site.

    Yes Vince you are right. But i realise i made quite a number of mistakes.
    First thing is i lent the camera. I thought I could trust. This has taught me a lesson never to lend anyone. Second is, the jobs were mostly by word of mouth. I consulted a lawyer friend of mine and he says that even if its word of mouth, it is still considered a contract between two individuals. As long as i have some proof that i took the photographs, and there would be no reason for me to take those shots other than the fact that it was for a job. The other thing is that i would require some form of permission or access to be able to enter those places to shoot, which also proves that it was for a job. But it can be circumstantial also, and the person who hired me can still say somethings (which i dont intend to put down here to safegaurd photographers). Anyway it is still a hassle.

    The website owners are not the ones. The one i know is just the middle person, supposedly a senior photographer as well. He even borrow my spare camera, which is the d50. Borrowed it for a few events, and then He disappeared for a while. I had so much trouble trying to contact him after that. He didn't contact me to return it as well. He held it for around 2 months.

    That was in September. Around end of december and January, i called him up almost everyday.

    After that i decided to just report the case to the police. I was lucky that they considered it a CBT, (criminal breach of trust) regarding the camera so an inspector was assigned to this particular case.

    We were both called up to the station, and he was to bring my camera along.


    As for payment, I brought along a statement for him to sign and say that he owes me such and such and would pay me by a certain date. I told him that if he didn't sign, i would pursue the matter and also report to small claims.

    I believe he does not want any trouble after that, so he just signed it and right now i am waiting for the payment.

    The thing is, he claims that the payments are approved by a third party (some investor). What I am frustrated with is that the agreement was between me and him and he should pay me for the job, whether or not there is any investor involved. Anyway I have given him a bit of time to pay up, but that would be the last I will ever do favours for him.

    It was a good lesson for me. So guys next time, please dun follow my stupid decision of trusting blindly. PLease Adopt the COndom Method. Beetter be safe than sorry. Get black and white for all your jobs.


    Rajesh

    i think you better report to the small claim,no point of waiting your so call 'trusted friend'.If he one day never paid up and you waited like a idiot just for the $900/-. Call him first ask him where is he going to paid up the $900/-.if he never pick up the call.Send a message to and tell him'By tomorrow' let say 12pm that you never rec'd any money from your so call 'trust friend'.You'll report it to the small claim court. Time and date is up the you to tell him.Give him 24hrs to settle all your payment.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Payment not made

    Quote Originally Posted by Rheo View Post
    yes he is not a friend at all.
    No he does not own the site.

    Yes Vince you are right. But i realise i made quite a number of mistakes.
    First thing is i lent the camera. I thought I could trust. This has taught me a lesson never to lend anyone. Second is, the jobs were mostly by word of mouth. I consulted a lawyer friend of mine and he says that even if its word of mouth, it is still considered a contract between two individuals. As long as i have some proof that i took the photographs, and there would be no reason for me to take those shots other than the fact that it was for a job. The other thing is that i would require some form of permission or access to be able to enter those places to shoot, which also proves that it was for a job. But it can be circumstantial also, and the person who hired me can still say somethings (which i dont intend to put down here to safegaurd photographers). Anyway it is still a hassle.

    The website owners are not the ones. The one i know is just the middle person, supposedly a senior photographer as well. He even borrow my spare camera, which is the d50. Borrowed it for a few events, and then He disappeared for a while. I had so much trouble trying to contact him after that. He didn't contact me to return it as well. He held it for around 2 months.

    That was in September. Around end of december and January, i called him up almost everyday.

    After that i decided to just report the case to the police. I was lucky that they considered it a CBT, (criminal breach of trust) regarding the camera so an inspector was assigned to this particular case.

    We were both called up to the station, and he was to bring my camera along.


    As for payment, I brought along a statement for him to sign and say that he owes me such and such and would pay me by a certain date. I told him that if he didn't sign, i would pursue the matter and also report to small claims.

    I believe he does not want any trouble after that, so he just signed it and right now i am waiting for the payment.

    The thing is, he claims that the payments are approved by a third party (some investor). What I am frustrated with is that the agreement was between me and him and he should pay me for the job, whether or not there is any investor involved. Anyway I have given him a bit of time to pay up, but that would be the last I will ever do favours for him.

    It was a good lesson for me. So guys next time, please dun follow my stupid decision of trusting blindly. PLease Adopt the COndom Method. Beetter be safe than sorry. Get black and white for all your jobs.


    Rajesh
    woah i realli feel sad for u knowing that u have such a friend i really think that a contract is much more important compared to mouth-mouth talk
    D800 | D700|16mm f2.8D|35 f1.4G|50 f1.8G|60mm F2.8D|85mm f1.4G|16-35 f4G|70-200 f2.8 VR2| SB900

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Payment not made

    Quote Originally Posted by spazzer View Post
    woah i realli feel sad for u knowing that u have such a friend i really think that a contract is much more important compared to mouth-mouth talk
    by using talking is not enought,you need him to sign a contract to let him.If not you're in the losing end.Very troublesome if you just talk like that.You need prove that this event is hire by him.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Payment not made

    Mmms.. If you took RAW files, make sure you keeep them. Would be good proof yars.

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Payment not made

    hmm yea,
    Anyway now, its not an issue because I have already got him to sign the statement saying he owes me the money.

    So now, its doesn't matter whether the job is done or not.. hopefully things go well.

    Anyway i have to move on from this incident and learn from it.

  14. #14
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    Thumbs up Re: Payment not made

    Quote Originally Posted by Rheo View Post
    hmm yea,
    Anyway now, its not an issue because I have already got him to sign the statement saying he owes me the money.

    So now, its doesn't matter whether the job is done or not.. hopefully things go well.

    Anyway i have to move on from this incident and learn from it.
    agreed

    I think that yes, it can be quite disappointing to see a friend betraying your trust. Do hope that he will seriously reflect on himself and change for the better.
    I salute you, Rheo, for being a good and trusting friend.. I say this with absolute sincerity, because there is nothing wrong with you being trusting, in fact, it is a virtue. It is just that sometimes in life there will be some others who take advantage of the situation.
    And I agree with you Rheo, move on, and while taking precaution biz-wise, keep your heart open still, and may your friends learn to appreciate you for that

  15. #15

    Default Re: Payment not made

    Quote Originally Posted by eunique View Post
    agreed

    I think that yes, it can be quite disappointing to see a friend betraying your trust. Do hope that he will seriously reflect on himself and change for the better.
    I salute you, Rheo, for being a good and trusting friend.. I say this with absolute sincerity, because there is nothing wrong with you being trusting, in fact, it is a virtue. It is just that sometimes in life there will be some others who take advantage of the situation.
    And I agree with you Rheo, move on, and while taking precaution biz-wise, keep your heart open still, and may your friends learn to appreciate you for that
    Well said!

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Payment not made

    Thanks for the comments. Well, sad to say I think many a times people just take advantage most of the time.

    Bizwise, yea, I should be more careful in the future definitely.

    Anyway, I will be leaving from my current company to do my own biz fulltime now which is graphic/web design and photography.




    Quote Originally Posted by eunique View Post
    agreed

    I think that yes, it can be quite disappointing to see a friend betraying your trust. Do hope that he will seriously reflect on himself and change for the better.
    I salute you, Rheo, for being a good and trusting friend.. I say this with absolute sincerity, because there is nothing wrong with you being trusting, in fact, it is a virtue. It is just that sometimes in life there will be some others who take advantage of the situation.
    And I agree with you Rheo, move on, and while taking precaution biz-wise, keep your heart open still, and may your friends learn to appreciate you for that

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Payment not made

    Hi guys.. just to update this situation.

    After getting him to sign, unfortunately he did not pay. In feb dragging to March.

    In April i went to small claims and after hearing they have made a court order against him.

    Coincedentally i found him linked to my facebook profile through another friend.
    Anyone knows him?


    Augustine Justin
    http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=677067296

  18. #18

    Default Re: Payment not made

    Hi

    I have an issue with a shipping company where they asked me to design a company car logo. Jobs almost completed and last minute, they decided to cancel it and now they refused to pay. Thing is, there was no contract signed as the person was working partner with my ex-client. He tried to talk to his boss to paying as he understands how it goes but unfortunately boss refuses. I would like to bring this up to small claim tribunals but all i have are emails. That guy who tried to talk to his boss also agreed that it is fair to bring it up to small claims tribunal.

    Question is.... will emails suffice? The emails did prove that job is done and that the work is worth $2500 and is agreed. But it did not mention in the terms of cancellation.

    Please help.

    Do I need to go down personally to file the claim or can it be done online?

  19. #19
    vince123123
    Guests

    Default Re: Payment not made

    Emails are good enough as evidence in a court of law.

    The only "online" method of filing a claim in the SCT is by fax. You can only file electronically if you have tons of claims to file and apply for a special electronic account from the SCT.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Payment not made

    to ride on this ..

    decided to do some product shoot for my friend company (hes an employee)
    insisted on cash on delivery (usual practice) but now the company want to make payment via cash cheque?

    will the cheque be bounce?
    or should i cash it before giving them the pics?

    TIA

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