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Thread: Matrix Reloaded : Discuss *SPOILERS ALERT*

  1. #1

    Lightbulb Matrix Reloaded : Discuss *SPOILERS ALERT*

    Please discuss what you like and what you do not, and what is left open for you in this movie:

    For me:

    Like
    Highway chase scene
    Fight in mansion scene
    Architect and Oracle (flip side of the same coin?)
    Twins


    Dislike
    French guy and his wife (what the hell are they suppose to do?) pathetic excuse for Neo to get to the Key Maker.
    Key maker - in the Matrix, does the Key Maker have to make thousands of keys and carry hundreds with him?
    This movie lacks soul... a sense of purpose... a sense of why we should care about the crew or the people in Zion.


    Open
    The knife guy scene when the ship departs from Zion.
    The kid who is dreaming of joing the ship.
    Smith going into the real world (potential explosive revelation about what is reality)
    What does Neo do to help the people in Zion? (is he a saviour? a la Christ, Buddha?)
    Last edited by urban; 18th May 2003 at 12:47 PM.
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  2. #2
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    What about the Two Twins? Did they die or live to see another sequel ?

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    Default Re: Matrix Reloaded : Discuss *SPOILERS ALERT*

    Originally posted by urban
    Open
    The kid who is dreaming of joing the ship.
    actually if you watch the Animatrix, the kid's a continuation from one of the stories there - "Kid's Story". very interesting short segment, Matrix fans should watch it if possible. it'll make some of the plot references more logical, like the references to the Osiris (from "Final Flight of the Osiris") and what they saw before they, erm, had their final flight.

    for me...

    like
    - the mind-boggling twists in the storyline (esp that Neo is the 6th "One")
    - some of the new special effects
    - a lot more Asian faces (Yuen Wo Ping's influence again?)
    - Persephone

    dun like
    - too much mind-screwing dialogue. i consider myself a fairly good listener, but man, i really had to concentrate to follow what the heck they were saying, esp the Neo-Architect scene.
    - the CG was really badly rendered and very raw. i mean, i can actually tell which is CG and which is not, like some parts of the Neo-Smith main fight scene, the Agent jumping on and smashing the car on the highway, Neo flying out of the exploding building and a few more others. looks like some PC game graphics. mabbe they really rushed this one out without refining it, and my gf says mabbe the Wachowshis left it like this deliberately, but i personally doubt it. wish they didn't have to resort to entirely CG-ed characters (that was one of the best things i liked about the original Matrix).
    - a bit too much hand combat. mabbe it's Yuen Wo Ping's influence...

    open
    - how did Agent Smith get re-generated again? i didn't understand that...
    - if some of Merovingian (the french guy)'s henchmen were reject programs (like the ghost Twins and the werewolf - why else does Persephone need to shoot him with a silver bullet?), why didn't they just turn into monsters and attack Neo?

  4. #4

    Default

    Likes
    - I liked all the cheem cheem bits, really. The Architect scene was probably my favourite of the lot, made you think, made you ask who you had to believe. That was the strength of the original show, after all.
    - Some nice visuals, like the camera angles weaving between the wheels of oncoming cars on the car chase scene.
    - Rage Against The Machine doing the ending song - how appropriate is that? Fantastic cultural nod.

    Dislikes
    - The Wachowskis forgot that the strength of a movie lies in it's ability to tell a story. The original Matrix was a tight mix of a thought-provoking, innovative premise that was backed up with kick-ass action that advanced the storyline and the idea of the revolution taking place - essentially, the form was expressing the function. Unfortunately in Reloaded we have action for the sake of action and justifying big budgets.
    - It wasn't even good action, as mentioned; poor CGI, and the fights were nowhere near as revolutionary as in the first movie. By this I mean an advancement on current techniques; of course they're better worked than in the first Matrix, but they're no longer that huge leap forward.
    - So many superfluous characters and events. If they do nothing for the show, don't include them! Miobe, for example, or the Commander, or Frenchdude. Then you have Zion, which honestly didn't need featuring, they were just showing off how big a CGI world they could create. Or as TNP described it, their Fraggle Rock cave
    - I found it kinda predictable, like the hints that the "real" world is just another construct at the end.
    - When you build up a legend, you better damn well be able to match expectations. XMen2 was fantastic cos I had really low hopes for it based on the original. However, I'm not sure they could improve on the original Matrix; were sequals really necessary, apart from the $$ standpoint?

    Open
    - Not too sure about the idea of doing a 4 hour show split into two. Made the pacing very iffy indeed, like they had to rush to put a "conclusion" on Reloaded to justify it standing alone. Still, despite how bad the show was I still can't wait for Revolution. Go figure.
    - The overt Biblical allusions started to disturb me after a while.

    Overall - a 2 out of 5, mainly due to unreached expectations. Not sure what I'd have given it if I never saw the original...

  5. #5

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    Originally posted by discolite
    - So many superfluous characters and events. If they do nothing for the show, don't include them! Miobe, for example, or the Commander, or Frenchdude. Then you have Zion, which honestly didn't need featuring, they were just showing off how big a CGI world they could create. Or as TNP described it, their Fraggle Rock cave
    - I found it kinda predictable, like the hints that the "real" world is just another construct at the end.
    - When you build up a legend, you better damn well be able to match expectations. XMen2 was fantastic cos I had really low hopes for it based on the original. However, I'm not sure they could improve on the original Matrix; were sequals really necessary, apart from the $$ standpoint?
    Niobe is a key character for Enter the Matrix (from what i see of test version of the game)

    Actually when the brothers thought of the story, they had thought of it as a three-parter... Only when the first movie did well, did they have the studio's approval to do the next two.
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  6. #6

    Default the Key Maker

    the entry of The Key Maker made me laugh ....

    Key Maker ... a.k.a. in Cantonese " Saw See Lou"

    aaahhhahahaha

  7. #7
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    Urban is right. The movie lacks soul.

    Yes, the action is most definately there. The CGs weren't all that impressive and there is one main thing that is very very disconcerting...

    In the fisrt movie, it was so much more attractive as a movie and original movie plot because reality and existence is the matrix (which is which? ) are so closely intervowen.

    But now we have Neo-perman, flying all over. It used to be abt bending reality while in the matrix, where little deviations (like how Agt Smith "closed" Neo's mouth) were enough to impress. Or being fast enough to dodge bullets.

    Now he can fly, perform instant surgury, fight off alot of Agts and still have his sunglasses intact... which brings me to the point mentioned in Times mag. If Agt Smith can replicate endlessly and Neo can fly, then whats the point of fighting?

    Too many character within one movie and all too poorly fleshed out. It has alot of potential so i can only keep my fingers crossed for Revolutions, which i hope can satisfactorily conclude this entire story arc...

    --
    "High Wired, Dream Sired"

  8. #8

    Default Re: Re: Matrix Reloaded : Discuss *SPOILERS ALERT*

    Originally posted by Larry
    - how did Agent Smith get re-generated again? i didn't understand that...
    Here's my interpretation... the whole matrix is a computer file system.

    Each object in it is a file. Each person is a program. Agent Smith is an intelligent and powerful program tha has decided to break free from the Operating System and become a virus, thus being able to replicate itself by infecting other 'programs'.

    To explore the file system furthur... For programmers who understand the OO (Object Oriented Concept), an action can be described as Matrix.People.Neo.Leg.Kick(Matix.Buildings.TowerA. Floor6.Room3.Door)

    The keymaker is like a password cracking program.
    The architect is the root
    Neo is a damn good hacker

  9. #9
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    SPOILER
    The Architect: "Your life is the sum of a remainder of an unbalanced equation inherent to the programming of the matrix. You are the eventuality of an anomaly, which despite my sincerest efforts I have been unable to eliminate from what is otherwise a harmony of mathematical precision. While it remains a burden to sedulously avoid it, it is not unexpected, and thus not beyond a measure of control. Which has led you, inexorably, here."

    LIKES
    -------
    - the very nice twist of events from architect/oracle/the truth/morheuse kenna stunned
    - fight scenes especially
    Highway chase scene
    Fight in mansion scene
    - agent (he has returned cept 100times cooler)

    DISLIKE
    ----------
    - super long credits.. -_-" to view the trailer even neo's personal trainer got featured.. I have the trailer heh..any takers?
    - when neo was supposedly to open the door of light they were talking i really hate the camera scenes kept changing and changing to the morpheus/neo conversation and to what happened to the other planes.. present / future switch
    - agent chase during the highway
    - i agreed with discolite on the part that the sequels must live up to originals MANY sequels have failed horribly x-men 2 was a nice exception. sequel like unbeatables 3 ee..scream and many more
    - the cgs were extremely fake in certain parts
    - fight scenes were generally good.. except that during the 5min (100 smith) fight the INCREASED number of smiths took too slow.. seems like the action is lacking... smith was cool when he intro himself in the 100smiths.
    - neo being superman.. haikz.. really wasted special

    EXTRAS
    ----------
    frm wht i interpret:: the frenchie is a program refuses to go back. he programmed his henchmen and the pill
    smith is now a free software able to copy himself hence leading him into zion n the only survivor of zion's destruction.. and also to illustrate that neo is also a program
    1.) he stopped the robot bombs in "human world" not the matrix
    2.) he got into a coma same as smith
    3.) wht the architect said n stuff

    keymaker was really xtra..
    i look forward to revolutions for only one reason.. rain fight scene b/w NEO and SMITH(with dunno how many smiths as audience)
    i hope it kicks ass

    ratings: 3.5/5

  10. #10

    Default My 2 cents

    Dislikes:
    Too many spoilers before i even get to see the movie (blame TCS)
    The Source Room is too unimaginative, i expected more than just hundreds of tv sets being at the end of neo's journey.
    Keymaker (can be deleted)

    Likes:
    The fight choreography were all very well designed.
    CGIs very good (but not quantium leap like the first one)
    The French Guy (Quite hilarious at times)
    Twins ( Nice character design)

    Open:
    I think actually they are all still inside the matrix tho they think they woke up.
    (hint: Neo destroyed the robots while out of the matrix?)

  11. #11

    Default Re: Re: Re: Matrix Reloaded : Discuss *SPOILERS ALERT*

    Originally posted by willyfoo
    To explore the file system furthur... For programmers who understand the OO (Object Oriented Concept), an action can be described as Matrix.People.Neo.Leg.Kick(Matix.Buildings.TowerA. Floor6.Room3.Door)

    The keymaker is like a password cracking program.
    The architect is the root
    Neo is a damn good hacker
    Very good !
    Made me understand better hehe.

    What's Oracle then ? Anti Virus?

    And what's Zion you think ?
    Our true flesh n blood world?

    =bob=
    Nikon 4 & lots of hollow chunky glass

  12. #12
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    Dislikes:
    The dance sequence after Morpheous' speech (now what on earth was that about?? )
    The fact that Neo has such incredible powers has lost its freshness

    Likes:
    Agent Smith going into the real world
    Agent Smith doing his replication trick
    That Neo can somehow stop machines in the real world now
    The two twins
    The story

  13. #13
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    Likes:
    Funny French-spewing-swearing man. Comic relief from the overly fast pace of the movie that seems to dash around without a sense of direction.

    Dislikes:
    The Architect. He's spewing a whole ton of cheem cheem English - I worry how most people are going to be able to digest that

    What has a love scene to do with the Matrix?

    Carrie-Anne wasn't given much screen time.

    Lawrence was also spewing too much indigestable words...

    Too much "bullet time" - killjoy. We're having an overdose of something that made the original look cool, and I seriously doubt all that rendering required a massive US$300 million...

    Expected more depth from the Commander/Morpheus/Niobe, but it was sooooo shallow.

    Took away $8.50 from me, and another $8.50 for treating my buddy - only to watch the end credits for a 1-minute crashcourse on Revolutions. Urgh...

  14. #14

    Default

    Dislikes:
    -Trinity shooting at the Agent while falling out of building....manz tt was elaborately long!

    -the wild party after the Morpheus speech....heck, really unnecessary. (in fact, seems more like a cult orgy party)

    -everyone ending their dialogue with, "this is what I'm here for..." (aka, their destiny).

    -the long.... long.... long....winding statment, especially tt by the Architect. think the actor for tt role find it tough too!!

    -the empty feeling when i left the theatre on a sunday mornin.

    Likes:

    -the highway scene where Trinity zipped against traffic on tt Ducati.
    (minus the Silly Agent stomping on tt poor car...like a Godzilla effect, ie pathetic)


    Verdict:

    dont like the idea of watching a movie and see it ends like a Drama Serial.

    instead of drawing you to the next release...it forces you to catch it to make sense of "Reloaded".

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    Watch the show a few time people, and enjoy it. Don't go looking for flaws. You'll catch more things when you see it a few times.

    The following is a transcript of the dialouge between the Architect and Neo, since he does go on a bit.

    Cheers. 5 months + to Nov 5.
    --------------------------------------------------------

    THE MATRIX RELOADED ARCHITECT SCENE


    A: Hello Neo.

    N: Who are you?

    A: I am the architect. I created the Matrix. I've been waiting for you. You have many questions, and though the process has altered your consciousness, you remain irrevocably human, ergo some of my answers you will understand and some of them you will not. Concordinantly while your first question may be the most pertinent, you may or may not realize that it is the most irrelevant.

    N: Why am I here?

    A: Your life is the sum of the remainder of an unbalanced equation inherent to the programming of the Matrix. You are the eventuality of an anomoly which, despite my sincerest efforts I have been unable to eliminate from what is otherwise a harmony of mathematical precision. Or that remains a burden asiduously avoided it is not unexpected and thus not beyond a measure of control, which has led you inexorably here.

    N: You haven't answered the question.

    A: Quite right. Interesting.. that was quicker than the others.

    (( other neos murmur ))

    A: The Matrix is older than you know. I prefer counting from the emergence of one integral anomaly to the emergence of the next in which case this is the sixth version.

    (( other neos murmur, some laugh, one says 'two possible explanations.. either no one told me.. (picture blends into the actual Neo standing there) )

    N: ..or no one knows.

    A: Precisely... As you are undoubtedly gathering, the anomaly is systemic, creating fluctuations in even the most simplistic equations...

    (( other neos yell out, some cursing ))

    N: ...Choice. The problem is a choice.


    [ scene change: Trinity sees an agent in the elevator, fight ensues ] [ scen change: back to the architect's room ]

    A: The first matrix I designed was quite naturally perfect -- it was a work of art, flawless, sublime. A triumph equaled only by its monumental failure. The inevitability of its doom is apparent to me now as a consequence of the imperfection inherent in every human being. As I redesigned it based on your history, to more accurately reflect the varying grotesqueries of your nature, however I was again frustrated by failure. I have since come to
    understand the answer eluded me because it required a lesser mind, or perhaps a mind less bound by the parameters of perfection. Thus, the answer was stumbled upon by another -- an intuitive program initially created to investigate certain aspects of the human psyche. If I am the Father of the Matrix, she would undoubtedly be its mother.

    N: The oracle.

    A: Please. As I was saying, she stumbled upon a solution whereby nearly 99% of all test subjects accepted the program as long as they were given a choice, even if they were only aware of the choice on an unconscious level. While this adds a function, it is obviously fundamentally flawed, thus creating the otherwise contradictory systemic anomaly, that if left unchecked might threaten the system itself. Ergo, those that refuse the program, while a minority, if unchecked would constitute an escalating probability of disaster.

    N: This is about Zion...

    A: You are here because Zion is about to be destroyed. Its every living inhabitant terminated, its entire existence eradicated...

    N: Bull****!

    (( other neos chime in with 'bull****' in overlapping fractions of a second ))

    A: Denial is the most predictable of all human responses, but, rest assured, this will be the sixth time we have destroyed it, and we have become exceedingly efficient at it...

    [ scene change: Trinity fighting the agent again. ]
    [ scene change: back to the Architect Room. ]

    A: (audio cut out)..enter the source allowing a temporary dissemination of the code reinserting the prime program, after which you will be required to select from the Matrix twenty three individuals, 16 female, 7 male, to rebuild Zion. Failure to comply with this process will result in a cataclysmic system crash killing everyone connected to the Matrix, which, coupled with the extermination of Zion, will ultimately result in the extinction of the ENITRE human race.

    N: You won't let it happen -- you can't -- you need human beings to survive.

    A: There are levels of survival we are prepared to accept. However the relevant issue is whether YOU are ready to accept responsibility for the death of every human being in this world. (pause) It is interesting reading your reactions. Your five predecessors were by design based on a similar predication in contingent affirmation that was meant to create a profound attachment to the rest of your species, facilitating the function of 'the one'. While the others experienced this in a very general way, your experience is far more specific. Vis a vis... Love. (taps his pen-remote)

    N: Trinity!

    A: Apropot! She entered the Matrix to save your life at the cost of her own.

    N: ...no...

    A: Which brings us at last to the moment of truth, wherein the fundamental flaw is ultimately expressed and the anomaly revealed as both beginning and end. There are two doors. The door to your right leads to the source and the salvation of Zion. The door to your left leads back to the Matrix, to her, and to the end of your species. As you adequately put, the problem is choice. But we already know what you are going to do, don't we? Already I can see the chain reaction -- the chemical precursors that signal the onset of an emotion, designed specifically to overwhelm logic and reason -- an emotion that is already blinding you from the simple and obvious truth -- she is going to die and there is nothing you can do to stop it.

    (( neo walks to his left, the movie viewer's right, and all of the other Neos in the screens all walk in the same direction ))

    A: Hope. It is the quintessential human delusion simultaneously the source of your greatest strength and your greatest weakness.

    N: If I were you, I would hope that we don't meet again.

    A: We won't.

    [ neo walks through the door ]

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    I have a couple of questions
    1) Where on earth does the boy whom Neo rescued come from? He's the boy who gave Neo the spoon and said "There's no spoon"? How on earth did he save him?
    2) How come Neo has power in the real world? There's this scene where a couple of octopus looking machine(can't remember what it's called) was about to attack Neo and he just held out his hand and an EMP shockwave demobilized them.
    3) Who is that man who's about to attack Neo in the real world?

    Dislikes:
    1) Cut scene during the mass dance.... Can hear that the music sounds snipped. Though I must say that scene is not necessary.
    2) Morpheous looks fat and unfit! This is especially apparent when he's fighting an agent on top of the trailer.

  17. #17
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    wah, sngck, you damn tok kong... How on earth did you get the script?

  18. #18

    Default Matrix Rebooted

    I think the next matrix should be call matrix rebooted.

    Likes
    ------
    Initial bike flying off the roof.
    Some of the twist and turn of the plot ( but later I find it was too much)


    Dislike
    --------
    Dislike the zion dance scene. Wonnder why would people dance around when they know they are going for war?
    Dislike the 100s of smith fight scene too long and too much. If Neo is fo powerful and can fly Y not he fly away in the first place?
    If Neo can fly Y not fly all the way??
    If flying around destroy everything in the path Y not fly non stop?
    If Neo can perform sugery and save life Y not save everyone's -life?
    Too much flying around fight scene makes it meaningless and give me a feeling that they are fighting for the sake of fightig only.


    Wat I think
    --------------

    -Matrix is the OS.
    -Zion is a Trojan.
    -Smith is a sub routine running array.
    -The Agents are process that are trying to end array processes.
    -Osirus is the Antivirus software running.
    -The french guy is a those porno trojon software that is harmelss yet irrating. Popuping up every now an them with a naked girl dancing. Yet can't be uninstalled.
    -Neo is the subroutine that knows whats wrong with the OS and is trying very hard to reboot the system and install Linux.
    Last edited by Minority; 20th May 2003 at 12:29 AM.

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    Originally posted by beluga
    I have a couple of questions
    ok let's see if i can help...

    1) Where on earth does the boy whom Neo rescued come from? He's the boy who gave Neo the spoon and said "There's no spoon"? How on earth did he save him?
    he's actually part of a story from the Animatrix, called "Kid's Story".. dunno if i should give this away but since this thread already got a Spoilers alert, i guess it's ok. the boy actually freed himself from the Matrix, without any help. it's a process of self-realization or self-sustaining (or something like that).

    2) How come Neo has power in the real world? There's this scene where a couple of octopus looking machine(can't remember what it's called) was about to attack Neo and he just held out his hand and an EMP shockwave demobilized them.
    my theory is that Neo is subconsciously still connected to the Matrix, since he's an inherent part of the program (albeit an anomaly). so he's still able to influence/affect anything connected to the Matrix (i.e. the probes). but it's anyone's guess. i guess we'll find out in Revolutions.

    3) Who is that man who's about to attack Neo in the real world?
    that's Agent Smith. remember one of the earlier scenes when he "copied" this Zion agent before he could dial himself out of the Matrix? Smith basically downloaded himself into the man's physical body and psyche. he's also the one who sabotaged the ships at the end and turned up unconscious (remember the ending scene with Neo and the man both unconscious?

    hope that helps man...

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Matrix Rebooted

    Originally posted by Minority
    Wat I think
    --------------
    -The french guy is a those porno trojon software that is harmelss yet irrating. Popuping up every now an them with a naked girl dancing. Yet can't be uninstalled.


    that's the best theory i heard so far...

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