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Thread: Is the latest cam body that worth splurging on?

  1. #21

    Default Re: Is the latest cam body that worth splurging on?

    Quote Originally Posted by viewwing View Post
    The key word i guess is WANT.

    Since you Want a DSLR badly. And i assume that 1k is what you're willing to spend on.

    i believe fellow bros have given u the options already.

    Now u need to ask urself what you NEED in that new camera body.

    Nikon, Canon are the famous brands. But for 1k. They do not really give u alot of bang for the bucks and they have the most accessories... which at this point of time may not be a good thing for you.

    My advise to you is to decide what you NEED for this DSLR and get something which will last u for at least 2 years. Shutter counts are what you need to look for if you are getting a 2nd hand.

    The rest of the Needs are list here.

    IS : Image stabiliser or anti shake (If you have been using a P&S with this function prob might want to have this.)
    Live View : Most entry DSLR don't come with this function. (Unlike P&S you have only the viewfinder on most DSLR, no picture on the lcd screen behind)
    Dust removal : Most come with this technology recently. But personally i think this is a must have...
    Auto-focus: I know the D40/x does not have AF within its own body. So you may want to take that into consideration.
    External Flash : Believe me... you WILL get an ext flash. so do include this into your budget.
    Tripod: This is a may or may not. But if you're thinking of long exposure or night shots... or even nice landscape shots. But this can wait... and there are some cheaper alternatives here in CS ads
    Crop factor: This is a little tricky, its more on sensor size, nikon, canon are 1.5 crop, Pentax is 1.6 if i'm not wrong and olympus is 2x. Meaning if you see the lense having 50mm- 100mm it actually means 75mm-150mm for 1.5 crop and for 2x its 100mm-200mm. There is a multiplication factor to these. so its a choice for either WIDE angle or Telezoom.
    Lens: most important NEED. Get a good one so it can do most of the job for you. a range from 14-18 to 50-70, depending on the crop factor is good for most shots.

    do some search of the items which you are thinking about in the CS forums you will find alot of "gold mines" here which have been discussed and shared by alot of bros here.

    Hope this helps you
    Thanks for the detailed analysis.

  2. #22
    Senior Member erictan8888's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is the latest cam body that worth splurging on?

    there really is a lot of testing for a used DLSR.... try and get someone to help you test the camera...
    eg, need to know the shutter count, the rubber sealing, the hotshoe whether working or not, the remote or cable trigger can work, the sensor got dust? etc...

    also, the warranty would most likely have expired by now compared to getting a new DLSR...

    i would rather get a new DLSR for whatever budget i have....
    and try and decide on a system... dun just go for any camera that fits your budget now....
    else you have to sell everything and change to another system(brand) that you like later... this will cost you a lot of money...

  3. #23
    Senior Member zoossh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is the latest cam body that worth splurging on?

    i read your concern from the other thread and your 1st post in this thread, and saw your pictures. i believe you will be serious in photography and will do very well. so i would not offer options such as prosumer. go straight for DSLR as it is one of the most versatile tool currently available.

    in my personal opinion, decide on how fast you can save up for a better body, if not get settle down with a more basic model first (you can use it well for at least 2-3 years). one who already have a system to shoot can save up for a better accessory, but if you do not have the system to start with, dun waste too much time on waiting, unless you can save up pretty fast.

    secondly set in your budget and gets the body that fits that budget. given more money, i would also spend on dust removal, larger viewfinder and more AF points for better tracking etc, but that does not mean the lack of that is really that limiting. i'm sure if i got a better body, i may not say the same, but currently using the entry level body from nikon have not limited me very much (yes, there are limits but can live with them) and there are plenty of guys out there who are using D70 which is older and they dun really find their camera body very limiting too. what i mean is that these two bodies are good enough not to be too picky about them in terms of basic usage. if it is a body that you want to explore into photography, they are good enough for that, even though better models offer more. the point is that you will only realise it when you use the better models, so if you dun use the better models, you can still be happy with these older models like me. so buy better models if your budget allows, if not, the entry levels are good enough as long as you dun compare.

    thirdly you need to consider the other accessories too in your budget too. i suggest you include the following as your first buy.

    1. camera body
    2. lens x 1
    3. UV filter x 2 (buy 1 B+W for use, 1 hoya as backup protection)
    4. battery x 2
    5. memory card x 2
    6. lens pen x 1

    everything else really can come later. even camera bags, tripods, flash.

    and lastly is probably your primary concern. which brand and which model? most difficult to answer. from my perspective, i can only advice on nikon. if you would like to try large aperture good quality AF primes for fantastic bokeh, nikkor AF-D 50mm f/1.8 cost only $150-200, one of the cheapest. nikon D40/D40x cannot use this lens with AF. D50 and D70s are ok but D80 offers a larger viewfinder, which is a good consideration if you can afford it. D70 and D100 will have those concerns you have about failing electronics and maintainence issue, so consider only if your budget is really tight. D200 or D300 are probably off your budget, although if you can stretch your budget by double, a second hand D200 is sub-2k can be considered.

    apart from fujifilm bodies, all the other brands also have available entry levels for you, and of which the first decision factor can be the aspect ratio. olympus and panasonic are 1.33 and nikon, canon, KM-sony, pentax and samsung are 1.50. if night shot is common for you, check about their high ISO performance. and of cos the feel is important. if you have not used the cameras, think it is hard for you to decide on things like built in stabiliser, dust removal and many other stuff. go to the magazine counter at bugis junction basement 1, look for a mag with a comparison review of the entry levels to help you with your decision on specifications. next, try out the models at any shop you are comfortable with to see how it feels in your hand and the various buttons.

    but frankly speaking, although i suggested the above, that is only for hardworking and particular buyer. when i first bought my camera body, i saw an advertisement, look for reviews on the model, hey, sounds good, and i bought it....
    Last edited by zoossh; 31st December 2007 at 12:51 AM.

  4. #24
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    Default Re: Is the latest cam body that worth splurging on?

    Ortega: Uh.. It's the same shutter but a different method to trigger it right? As in 1 shutter with 2 trigger mechanisms.

    (sorry if my technical knowledge is a little on the clueless side)
    Last edited by Yatlapball; 31st December 2007 at 01:17 AM.

  5. #25

    Default Re: Is the latest cam body that worth splurging on?

    hm, here is my experience and opinions.

    i didn't go for anything when i had $1000, though i wanted a DSLR badly as well. after doing all my homework, i realise that $1000 is simply not enough to get together a set-up that fits my expectations.

    in the end, i took the film route. i bought a Nikon F80 in the b/s section. got a 50mm F1.8 brand new. this can definitely be done within $500, which is half your budget.

    actually i think it all boils down to what you hope you achieve with your camera at the present stage of your photography journey.

    i just started out, and i am still learning bit by bit. when i shoot today, i think hard about the exposure. if you are thinking of honing your photography skills, i think shooting film is the hard way to learn today.but shooting film has this very sexy allure. from visualising how the picture would look like to sending it for processing, anticipating the collection to finally seeing the image. remember, it used to be a very basic photography process till digital photography came along, scrutinize and overthrown it mercilessly.

    digital photography, we are talking about the latest sensor, colour rendition and stuff. the latest technology makes a difference. film, its as though every new frame is a new sensor. at the end of the day, you are really working on your photography techniques.

    in the near future, when i advance to DSLR, i hope i have graduated with a solid foundation of photography techniques. from there, the latest technology will aid your photography.

    no offense to anyone, but i think a lot of people, especially the younger generation lack a good foundation. just go look at some of the galleries, some people can't even achieve consistent white balancing and colour rendition. you look at their signature and you see their set up cost 3K and above, very easily. some even got all the latest technology.

    i don't what you are trying to achieve at this present stage now, but i hope my experience will provide you with another angle.

    cheers!

  6. #26

    Default Re: Is the latest cam body that worth splurging on?

    I agree with zoossh, I saw your flickr and the pictures are remarkable. Just my personal view, buying camera bodies are like buying cars. You lose money the instant you buy it so why not consider a good condition second hand body after someone has absorbed the hit on depreciation.

  7. #27
    Senior Member zoossh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is the latest cam body that worth splurging on?

    Quote Originally Posted by halcy0n View Post
    I agree with zoossh, I saw your flickr and the pictures are remarkable. Just my personal view, buying camera bodies are like buying cars. You lose money the instant you buy it so why not consider a good condition second hand body after someone has absorbed the hit on depreciation.
    there is always this fear factor about 2nd hand body, and a natural tendency of wanting a significant drop in price but wants everything to be sparking new, sometimes not entirely possible and possibly a bit too much.

    came across someone who makes this comment that he dun care if a camera body is a day old or two months old, it is considered used once open, and he expect at least a two hundred dollars off the cheapest retail cost price!! (by the way there is no conflict of interest as i've never sold my camera body. )

    likewise, one cannot expect a nikkor AF-D 50mm f/1.8 or a AF-S 18-200mm VRII to be significantly cheaper as a 2nd hand becos these lenses are in shortage with high demand. so one has to consider that for some lenses, the price drop is very marginal whereas for some other stuff, the price drop can be very much.

    john, a 2nd hand DSLR body is still pretty hardy but nevertheless the risk is there. the thing about the shutter count to me is something like the thing about megapixel. something of more concern is probably the viewfinder and sensor cleaniness.
    Last edited by zoossh; 31st December 2007 at 03:22 PM.

  8. #28
    Senior Member zoossh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is the latest cam body that worth splurging on?

    Quote Originally Posted by jamie-vai View Post
    no offense to anyone, but i think a lot of people, especially the younger generation lack a good foundation. just go look at some of the galleries, some people can't even achieve consistent white balancing and colour rendition. you look at their signature and you see their set up cost 3K and above, very easily. some even got all the latest technology.
    i'm not been a film user, and i do respect the features that attract film users. but i do see film users with problems of balancing and color rendition as well. it is probably a matter of eye, judgement and effort.

    although i understand your point of view, i thought that with limited budget to only start with 1 system, the ts may benefit more with starting off with DSLR and going back to film at a later point of time if he have further expectations, as he has a training background of digital photo-editing so a digital system will facilitate that workflow.

  9. #29
    Member NeTHaCk's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is the latest cam body that worth splurging on?

    you can choose the Pentax or stick to your choice of a nikon.

    Pentax, dont doubt it. its a good camera. if i ever do want to get a spare camera to back me up, i'll go with the pentax instead of canon.


    i was like you, contemplating 2nd hand or 1st hand. i bought my d50 with a very high shutter count, more than 18k. but till today, its still working fine, the abuse came from me, not the previous owner.

    for your budget, you can get a d70s, an 18-70 kit lens or a 2nd hand 28-70 tokina/sigma f2.8 lens.

    my choice would be the d70s with 18-70kit, get used to kit lens. its the best kit lens there is to offer. a d70s kit might cost $600-$750 , enough for a flash, OR dry cabinet, + a 50mm f.18 lens.

    the d70s isnt a bad camera. in fact, i almost bought it, if not for my patience, i would have.

    oh well.. alls that in the past. in a month or 2 time.. im swapping for the d70s or d80, or maybe a fuji s3 or s2pro

  10. #30
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    Default Re: Is the latest cam body that worth splurging on?

    save up, wait, and then get a good DSLR well..do some research...

  11. #31
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    Default Re: Is the latest cam body that worth splurging on?

    IMHO, get a new DSLR.

    Unlike film SLRs, the technology for DSLRs is not matured yet. The features and specs keep getting better with every successive release, and more importantly, the prices come down (or for the same price, you get better specs), so it's really more worth to get that new one.

    Also, I would think that DSLRs, especially the lower end ones, aren't made to last. While film camera owners had mechanical concerns to contend with, DSLRs have fragile electronics as another factor too. Buying a second hand digital camera, you don't know when it will fail. And when the electronic component fails, they may fail suddenly w/o warning (such as CCD burnout). Out of warranty repairs are expensive and definitely not worth it.

    Having said all that, do check out some good deals like the Nikon D40, Olympus E330. I've seen them being sold with kit lens for less than $1k new.
    Sony Alpha system user. www.pbase.com/synapseman

  12. #32
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    Default Re: Is the latest cam body that worth splurging on?

    Quote Originally Posted by zoossh View Post
    i'm not been a film user, and i do respect the features that attract film users. but i do see film users with problems of balancing and color rendition as well. it is probably a matter of eye, judgement and effort.

    although i understand your point of view, i thought that with limited budget to only start with 1 system, the ts may benefit more with starting off with DSLR and going back to film at a later point of time if he have further expectations, as he has a training background of digital photo-editing so a digital system will facilitate that workflow.
    I second this ... having gone down the exact same path. Digital first.. then film.

  13. #33
    Senior Member zoossh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is the latest cam body that worth splurging on?

    Quote Originally Posted by synapseman View Post
    Also, I would think that DSLRs, especially the lower end ones, aren't made to last.
    electronics aren't made to last unfortunately in today's time, and with the trend of pushing production out of the country of origin to compete in pricing. however, are the higher end ones significantly less likely to fail? if warranty lasts 3-5 years, i may believe that. also, technology advances with some margin every 2-3years. so in certain ways, a newer entry model plus its upgrade may outperform a high end model that is exorbitantly priced for professional who pay that logarithmic increase for certain features. say maybe if one compared D2H versus D40?

    so eventually one has to weigh his demand versus the cost effectiveness of the camera body. the entry and some of the intermediate level models offer good value because they have the features sufficient for a large number of us, serves a larger interested population, and the competitive pricing makes it closer to its production costs. marketing of higher end models are probably graded by how much one is willing to pay up to, with pricing interval to separate buyers, so that they can profit from every levels of financial ability.

    a intermediate level model, such as D200 and D300 is really attractive. but ts has to come to terms with what he can afford, or should he wait for another 1-1.5 year to buy a better model while he is studying photography now? my belief and suggestion is that if things are tight, a 50mm f/1.8 lens and a good filter is more worth it than 2 years difference of sensor technology. not just lens, accessories plays their parts accordingly to the field, so what a better model offers may not override the presence/absence of some accessories.
    Last edited by zoossh; 2nd January 2008 at 10:44 PM.

  14. #34

    Default Re: Is the latest cam body that worth splurging on?

    Quote Originally Posted by jamie-vai View Post
    hm, here is my experience and opinions.

    i didn't go for anything when i had $1000, though i wanted a DSLR badly as well. after doing all my homework, i realise that $1000 is simply not enough to get together a set-up that fits my expectations.

    in the end, i took the film route. i bought a Nikon F80 in the b/s section. got a 50mm F1.8 brand new. this can definitely be done within $500, which is half your budget.

    actually i think it all boils down to what you hope you achieve with your camera at the present stage of your photography journey.

    i just started out, and i am still learning bit by bit. when i shoot today, i think hard about the exposure. if you are thinking of honing your photography skills, i think shooting film is the hard way to learn today.but shooting film has this very sexy allure. from visualising how the picture would look like to sending it for processing, anticipating the collection to finally seeing the image. remember, it used to be a very basic photography process till digital photography came along, scrutinize and overthrown it mercilessly.

    digital photography, we are talking about the latest sensor, colour rendition and stuff. the latest technology makes a difference. film, its as though every new frame is a new sensor. at the end of the day, you are really working on your photography techniques.

    in the near future, when i advance to DSLR, i hope i have graduated with a solid foundation of photography techniques. from there, the latest technology will aid your photography.

    no offense to anyone, but i think a lot of people, especially the younger generation lack a good foundation. just go look at some of the galleries, some people can't even achieve consistent white balancing and colour rendition. you look at their signature and you see their set up cost 3K and above, very easily. some even got all the latest technology.

    i don't what you are trying to achieve at this present stage now, but i hope my experience will provide you with another angle.

    cheers!
    I did had this thought from the beginning (and inherited a old pentax ME super from my father) but somehow or rather I feel that I am not ready to go into film. It might be due to my lack of knowledge as to how film photography works. Though I am still working on that aspect, I feel that I have enuff knowledge on basic photography (i.e apperture, exposure, shutter speeds, etc) Therefore, probably I would start on digital photography till i tink I am ready and comfotable with film.

    So for the mean time, the pentax system can rest in my dry cabinet
    A perfect photo that is empty of any feeling will never equal a blurred photo full of emotion

  15. #35

    Default Re: Is the latest cam body that worth splurging on?

    Quote Originally Posted by halcy0n View Post
    I agree with zoossh, I saw your flickr and the pictures are remarkable. Just my personal view, buying camera bodies are like buying cars. You lose money the instant you buy it so why not consider a good condition second hand body after someone has absorbed the hit on depreciation.
    Thanks for the advice, I agree with you. Buying a cam is really like buying a car. Especially for the tight-budgetted lot
    A perfect photo that is empty of any feeling will never equal a blurred photo full of emotion

  16. #36
    Senior Member zoossh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is the latest cam body that worth splurging on?

    Quote Originally Posted by johnmaeda View Post
    I did had this thought from the beginning (and inherited a old pentax ME super from my father) but somehow or rather I feel that I am not ready to go into film. It might be due to my lack of knowledge as to how film photography works. Though I am still working on that aspect, I feel that I have enuff knowledge on basic photography (i.e apperture, exposure, shutter speeds, etc) Therefore, probably I would start on digital photography till i tink I am ready and comfotable with film.

    So for the mean time, the pentax system can rest in my dry cabinet
    i see. then you might have some old pentax lenses yah? a travel mate of mine is also a film user convert to digital. he is very happy with his pentax camera as it is compatible with his old lenses as well as others with a M42 adaptor, and plays with black and white photography with a colored filter.

  17. #37

    Default Re: Is the latest cam body that worth splurging on?

    Quote Originally Posted by zoossh View Post
    i see. then you might have some old pentax lenses yah? a travel mate of mine is also a film user convert to digital. he is very happy with his pentax camera as it is compatible with his old lenses as well as others with a M42 adaptor, and plays with black and white photography with a colored filter.
    Oh but sad to say, only the body is a pentax. the lens is from tamron.
    A perfect photo that is empty of any feeling will never equal a blurred photo full of emotion

  18. #38
    Member unseenshadows's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is the latest cam body that worth splurging on?

    The initial cost of a Film SLR may be alluring, at around 500. But do consider the cost of the film, processing, printing and scanning (if you wish to upload). That for every photo you shoot.
    I shoot film.

  19. #39

    Default Re: Is the latest cam body that worth splurging on?

    Juz to share

    Went to Kinokuniya today and saw this issue of Asian Geographic. No.50 Issue 11/2007. alternatively you can visit http://www.asiangeo.com/ to check it out. Found the B/W photos to be very captivating. Saw on the cover page as some photo annual 2007.
    Last edited by johnmaeda; 5th January 2008 at 12:58 AM.
    A perfect photo that is empty of any feeling will never equal a blurred photo full of emotion

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