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Thread: What Happen if U're Sick and Cannot Shoot on the AD?

  1. #21

    Default Re: What Happen if U're Sick and Cannot Shoot on the AD?

    Quote Originally Posted by Angel1 View Post
    This is the only reasonable response, I'll think twice engaging one that have small prints to evade responsibility, even an unforeseen situation. The service provider MUST be reponsible for replacement, even if you are an OMO, even if you are lying on a hospital bed.
    We are all consumers one way or another. Paying for peace of mind, and paying for professionalism.
    the real question would be how much are you willing to pay.
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  2. #22

    Default Re: What Happen if U're Sick and Cannot Shoot on the AD?

    Ahh!! ...
    Paying for professionalism, or an association that promotes professionalism.

    Couples willing to pay that littlebit more, getting an accredited photgrapher from the association.

    Paying for assurance & confidence knowing that they have hired a reliable source.

    Photographers, be they full-timers or part-timers being able to raise their rates gradually because they are members of WPAS.

    Wouldnt this be good for everyone?

    These are my thoughts, and visions.

    This is why the WPAS committee spend sleepless nights, trying to get it started as best we can. Just for info, it'll cost around 20k to 30k to start the main launch even. I take it as personal challenge knowing that i helped the wedding photographer community in singapore.

    There are many 'moderators' here in clubsnap, why go solo when we can band together to get it moving. Talk is cheap, be seen and not just heard.

    We are looking for people to come forward to help the association, not cut it up in pieces by smart mouthing. Unless you have a valid reason for being naive because you lack the experience.

  3. #23

    Default Re: What Happen if U're Sick and Cannot Shoot on the AD?

    Here's how it works:

    Get another photographer to cover the first 2 hours for <$200. This backup will over the groom which the actual photographer covers the bride make-up session. If nothing goes wrong, the backup will leave and just be on standby for the rest of the day lor....

    Let the couple a choice to buy this insurance. It they don't then they bear the consequence.

  4. #24

    Default Re: What Happen if U're Sick and Cannot Shoot on the AD?

    Quote Originally Posted by weekh View Post
    Here's how it works:

    Get another photographer to cover the first 2 hours for <$200. This backup will over the groom which the actual photographer covers the bride make-up session. If nothing goes wrong, the backup will leave and just be on standby for the rest of the day lor....

    Let the couple a choice to buy this insurance. It they don't then they bear the consequence.
    like that backup quite siong in terms of opportunity cost.

    unless he/she is like professional backupper every other day backup. (this would normalise to earnings of $100 / day) or $3K per month excluding CPF, leave, benefits..etc.
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  5. #25
    Senior Member azul123's Avatar
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    Default Re: What Happen if U're Sick and Cannot Shoot on the AD?

    This is what I would do to protect myself as client (not photographer POV).

    Have the contract mutualised, meaning... if cancel by client liable for $x amount, then if cancel by photographer also $x (same) amount.

    If it is acceptable to have replacement, then replacement must be named up front and to show portfolio to client as the client will need to accept if style and quality is of equal, if not equal then client can negotiate in such situation when photographer cannot make it and replacement is used, $x- agreed amount, or $x+ agreed amount is replacement is better.

    I usually strike out T&Cs that I do not agree with and have gotten my way, usually it is just making it mutual and most people cannot disagree with that.

    ../azul123

  6. #26

    Default Re: What Happen if U're Sick and Cannot Shoot on the AD?

    Quote Originally Posted by Angel1 View Post
    This is the only reasonable response, I'll think twice engaging one that have small prints to evade responsibility, even an unforeseen situation. The service provider MUST be reponsible for replacement, even if you are an OMO, even if you are lying on a hospital bed.
    We are all consumers one way or another. Paying for peace of mind, and paying for professionalism.
    I tend to agree w this ... imagine it being urself on ur big day, wat if the same thing is done unto you ...

    there is so much that a couple can accept as "fate" like photographer died in his sleep ... but if the photographer cannot make it, it should be his professional responsibility to engage someone else to cover it ...

    Personally, I dun do weddings but if it were to happen to me, I would rather pay 2 times the price to engage a "last-minute" photographer than to lose goodwill ... there are too many wannabes out there and if you get stuck to a bad name, it sticks ...

    on the other hand, customers who know that you go all the way out to do wat is humanely possible will appreciate it and may even recommend more customers to you.

    as service providers, sometimes we have our fair share of "bad" customers. afterall, this is an imperfect world ...

  7. #27

    Default Re: What Happen if U're Sick and Cannot Shoot on the AD?

    Quote Originally Posted by CYRN View Post
    the real question would be how much are you willing to pay.
    What has it got to do with how much I'm willing to pay?
    A promise to deliver and to pay for services, verbal or written contract, $500 or $5000.

  8. #28

    Default Re: What Happen if U're Sick and Cannot Shoot on the AD?

    Quote Originally Posted by mo2 View Post
    Ahh!! ...
    Paying for professionalism, or an association that promotes professionalism.

    Couples willing to pay that littlebit more, getting an accredited photgrapher from the association.

    Paying for assurance & confidence knowing that they have hired a reliable source.

    Photographers, be they full-timers or part-timers being able to raise their rates gradually because they are members of WPAS.

    Wouldnt this be good for everyone?

    These are my thoughts, and visions.
    What's there for the consumers? Sounds more like.......price fixing.

  9. #29

    Default Re: What Happen if U're Sick and Cannot Shoot on the AD?

    Quote Originally Posted by Angel1 View Post
    What has it got to do with how much I'm willing to pay?
    A promise to deliver and to pay for services, verbal or written contract, $500 or $5000.
    let me give you an example.
    if you want good services, you fly SIA or eat at hotels. Else you fly budget airlines or eat at foodcourts.

    Similarly, for a viable photo business. There a cost to the level of service provided. What most couples don't understand is the overhead costs required just to shoot a paid event. It can be from backup equipments to redundancy in PC setup... all meant to insure loss of photos. So if the service requires backup it's up to the photographer to include it as part of his package. This is why we advice against too cheap a photographer, the usual phrase.. if it's too good to be true, it's usually isn't.
    Gallery | Facebook Page Spreading the Good photography.

  10. #30

    Default Re: What Happen if U're Sick and Cannot Shoot on the AD?

    Quote Originally Posted by Angel1 View Post
    What's there for the consumers? Sounds more like.......price fixing.
    WPAS is studying into providing a (paid) backup service to photographers. Hopefully we have sufficient pool of photographers to fill the role. In this case WPAS might be able to provide such service with economy of scale.

    This translates to 2 immediate and significant benifits to the couples. 1 assurance of backup. 2 very reasonable price to pay for insuring against photographer's condition.
    Gallery | Facebook Page Spreading the Good photography.

  11. #31

    Default Re: What Happen if U're Sick and Cannot Shoot on the AD?

    Quote Originally Posted by CYRN View Post
    let me give you an example.
    if you want good services, you fly SIA or eat at hotels. Else you fly budget airlines or eat at foodcourts.

    Similarly, for a viable photo business. There a cost to the level of service provided. What most couples don't understand is the overhead costs required just to shoot a paid event. It can be from backup equipments to redundancy in PC setup... all meant to insure loss of photos. So if the service requires backup it's up to the photographer to include it as part of his package. This is why we advice against too cheap a photographer, the usual phrase.. if it's too good to be true, it's usually isn't.
    Are you trying to suggest that if I fly budget airline, there's no guarantee I'm arrive at my destination? or get lousy food at foodcourt? This argument is so lame.
    I can appreciate the cost of running a business. Value of service.
    If a photographer quote me $888 for my AD and include a coffee table book and 300 4R and album. I think it's pretty standard out there in the market, thou I like another guy who quote me $1388. Looking at their portfolio, both have very good work, same offerings and hard to tell who's better. Im happier saving $500, and I expect him to turn up on my big day, if otherwise, I would not have engage him or be bother with fine prints that suggest otherwise. Any contract that suggest that for this lower price, do expect substandard service and lower quality? Think about it.

  12. #32
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    Default Re: What Happen if U're Sick and Cannot Shoot on the AD?

    Quote Originally Posted by Angel1 View Post
    This is the only reasonable response, I'll think twice engaging one that have small prints to evade responsibility, even an unforeseen situation. The service provider MUST be reponsible for replacement, even if you are an OMO, even if you are lying on a hospital bed.
    We are all consumers one way or another. Paying for peace of mind, and paying for professionalism.
    I assure you, my contracts aren't in small print and i certainly don't have a gun pointed to my client's head when they're signing the contract.

    All terms of the contract are explained in a clear and concise manner, with both parties understanding the risks involved.

    Should they feel that the contract is not something they are comfortable with, they are free to go elsewhere.

  13. #33

    Default Re: What Happen if U're Sick and Cannot Shoot on the AD?

    Quote Originally Posted by CYRN View Post
    WPAS is studying into providing a (paid) backup service to photographers. Hopefully we have sufficient pool of photographers to fill the role. In this case WPAS might be able to provide such service with economy of scale.

    This translates to 2 immediate and significant benifits to the couples. 1 assurance of backup. 2 very reasonable price to pay for insuring against photographer's condition.
    Cyrn, my apologies if I sounded like picking a fight. This statement sounded more intelligent. How does it works? How much more do I have to pay for assurance? It's getting me worried that my photographer "may" not turn up.
    I'm a consumer, I'm demanding, I want value for money and I want my photographer to turn up on my AD. If in the event that due to unforeseen circumstances and the photographer cannot make it, he had to find me a replacement, even if it cost him more.

  14. #34
    vince123123
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    Default Re: What Happen if U're Sick and Cannot Shoot on the AD?

    The opposite situation can easily apply:

    Photographer cancel, couple can't find anyone and lost memories.

    Couple cancel, photographer can still look for another job which requires a photographer at short notice.

    Doesn't it work both ways?

    Quote Originally Posted by randytay View Post
    Couple forfeit, photographer lost business opportunity.

    Photog cancel, couple can still look for another photog who is willing to do with short notice.
    Last edited by vince123123; 19th December 2007 at 04:49 PM.

  15. #35
    vince123123
    Guests

    Default Re: What Happen if U're Sick and Cannot Shoot on the AD?

    This is a good approach, the concept of mutuality - unfortunately, some views here expressed are intended only to protect one side. Hopefully the other side knows how to negotiate the same way you do; or else another singaporebrides story will emerge



    Quote Originally Posted by azul123 View Post
    This is what I would do to protect myself as client (not photographer POV).

    Have the contract mutualised, meaning... if cancel by client liable for $x amount, then if cancel by photographer also $x (same) amount.

    If it is acceptable to have replacement, then replacement must be named up front and to show portfolio to client as the client will need to accept if style and quality is of equal, if not equal then client can negotiate in such situation when photographer cannot make it and replacement is used, $x- agreed amount, or $x+ agreed amount is replacement is better.

    I usually strike out T&Cs that I do not agree with and have gotten my way, usually it is just making it mutual and most people cannot disagree with that.

    ../azul123

  16. #36
    Senior Member Sion's Avatar
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    Default Re: What Happen if U're Sick and Cannot Shoot on the AD?

    Quote Originally Posted by ellery View Post
    ....most capable shooters can still work when sick.... we may look and feel dead afters. I once shoot with a light fracture on the thumb without knowing the extent of the damage.... very painful and difficult experience.
    In the long history of wedding photography, there was one photographer who collapsed and died in the middle of ceremony because of heart failure.

    He didn't get a state funeral or get to collect his payment.

    May this be a lesson to the brave souls.
    Last edited by Sion; 19th December 2007 at 04:52 PM.

  17. #37

    Default Re: What Happen if U're Sick and Cannot Shoot on the AD?

    Hello Angel1 ....

    I Say ..... Good Luck to both the couples & photographers...

    Imagine buying food off the streets from illegal hawkers and getting stomach upset...

    If mild diarrhea then lucky, if food poisoning then god be with you, you have my sympathy.

    There's also such a thing as the wrong couple for the photographer, so rather ask them find someone else...

    If you really find the $888 photog as mentioned with 300 4R prints & coffee table book, do ask him to contact us as to how to make another $500 more...

    I say what i say as i may not be the best but with 20 years experience shooting professionally, i can safely say 'No Good, Dont Pay' BUT come to me if you have the budget or really require a professional to do the job...

    Better yet, let someone else find out which photographer infringe my copyright and i can AGAIN sue that poor chap another 15k ....

    regards,
    Albert Chua

  18. #38

    Default Re: What Happen if U're Sick and Cannot Shoot on the AD?

    Quote Originally Posted by Angel1 View Post
    Are you trying to suggest that if I fly budget airline, there's no guarantee I'm arrive at my destination? or get lousy food at foodcourt? This argument is so lame.
    If you still don't know. It's exactly what you mentioned for the airlines, you pay SIA for the assurance that they do not buy 2nd hand aircrafts, thus more reliable planes. You pay extra for SIA to keep the fleet well maintained and they are trying very hard to keep their records clean. If you have tried some of the budget airlines that engine died while you are boarding it...

    It's the same, if you want to risk that 1 in a million chance, it's your risk. Furthermore, it always adviceable to have travel insurance coverage.

    For foodcourts, it's self service compared to being waited upon in hotel's resturants. Similarly, you have to self service should photographer cannot make it, but hand you his/her professional cam. Cuz in foodcourts the owner simply just dun open stall lah, hotels cannot do the same right?

    Also for foodcourts, you have to try first lah. Not all have same quality, not nice you can order again or go other foodcourts. AD wedding not nice can do again?

    Quote Originally Posted by Angel1 View Post
    I can appreciate the cost of running a business. Value of service.
    If a photographer quote me $888 for my AD and include a coffee table book and 300 4R and album. I think it's pretty standard out there in the market, thou I like another guy who quote me $1388. Looking at their portfolio, both have very good work, same offerings and hard to tell who's better. Im happier saving $500, and I expect him to turn up on my big day, if otherwise, I would not have engage him or be bother with fine prints that suggest otherwise. Any contract that suggest that for this lower price, do expect substandard service and lower quality? Think about it.
    If anyone charges you below cost, then that fella isn't a business in the first place. Do you think that you can trust them to have proper contingency plans thought through and the risk managed? Businesses have reputation to uphold, Mr Tan An Kow can just MIA and migrate. You have to know the implied risk when you expects your implied wants to be fufilled.

    PS. Posting such long reply using PDA can be a tedious exercise of paitence... hahaha.
    Gallery | Facebook Page Spreading the Good photography.

  19. #39

    Default Re: What Happen if U're Sick and Cannot Shoot on the AD?

    Quote & Requote:

    One day i want to be worth $500 an hour for a wedding job ... Hee Hee....

    Serious !!! Pardon me & no offence to some i know....

  20. #40

    Default Re: What Happen if U're Sick and Cannot Shoot on the AD?

    Quote Originally Posted by Angel1 View Post
    Cyrn, my apologies if I sounded like picking a fight. This statement sounded more intelligent. How does it works? How much more do I have to pay for assurance? It's getting me worried that my photographer "may" not turn up.
    I'm a consumer, I'm demanding, I want value for money and I want my photographer to turn up on my AD. If in the event that due to unforeseen circumstances and the photographer cannot make it, he had to find me a replacement, even if it cost him more.
    No issue, in this line of work. Sure encounter similar situations... the truth is I've faced worse

    What I've mentioned is only in planning. WPAS launch is only scheduled in Mar/Apr 08. I'm not sure how fast we can implement it. There's a lot of issues to sort out before implementation. Why not follow the link in my signature and feedback on what is the expectation from the couple's POV.
    Gallery | Facebook Page Spreading the Good photography.

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