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Thread: Frightening Situation

  1. #41

    Default Re: Frightening Situation

    police cars have to proceed with caution at traffic lights mah... but i would expect them to be here in 15 mins after i hang up the phone for urgent matters. Thats why there are neighbour hood police post near by.
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  2. #42
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    Default Re: Frightening Situation

    maybe these days the police got alot of booklets to sign out?

    - arm skote
    - ammo
    - walkie talkie
    - walkie talkie batt
    - hand cuff
    - flashlight
    - vehicle
    - etc

    den followed by equipement check of the list above. den go toilet pee just in case the incident take long time? last time got traffic accident near my prev home the police was there for more than 1.5hrs.

  3. #43

    Default Re: Frightening Situation

    What i said was a true account. Let me provide more details since some had asked if this was BS.

    As I was walking on the street pass midnight, about to collect my car from a Maxwell House, I saw a lady, pissed drunk on the floor, murmuring some thai words mixed with Mandarin with words saying "help." I went forward, bent down and asked her if she needed help, she nod her head and grip my hand. I called the police immediately. Then, a big size japanese man came rushing forward and shouted "bagaru" at me repeatedly. [I know what that word meant as do have japanese friends]. He chased me, i ran. After a short 200m, he stopped, I stopped. I walked back to the crime scene. He chased me again when he saw me and this happened to me 3 times. I tried to buy time by doing this.

    During that short phase (after the first chase), an old security guard of maxwell house came out. I told him what had happened. When he saw the japanese running like a freak and chasing me, the security guard quickly went back into the building to hide.

    I outran the japanese man each time. Eventually, I hid behind a small bush (URA Centre) after the last chase and he drove his honda civic over (which was parked nearby). I called 999 3 times begging the police to come. The nearest police station was 5 min drive from maxwell house. The last I saw was the man pushed the lady into the car hastily and sped off. I did not get to see the license plate as I was directly opposite (perpendicularly) the car and I was on the phone with 999 then with a lady operator.

    The police arrived after 20 min or so (from the time I called 999). I tried my best to buy time, but the police took so long. When the two male policemen arrived, I handed my IC and told him the incident. I asked them why they took so long, they said they were quite busy (at 3am). I told them there was one white high heel left on the floor plus a hp left by the lady (victim) at the crime scene - at the entrance of maxwell house carpark. One police came forward, picked up the HP and slipped into his right pants pocket. I asked him if he needed to collect the high heel. He said thats not important! I was speechless...

    What I saw should not be a husband and wife episode as the man looked very frantic and chased me several times shouting vulgarities at me. He had to push the lady into the car. I wouldn't treat my spouse or my daughter this way. Also, the two evidences left on the floor was not something I would leave behind if I were to send my spouse home.

    I admit this episode being abduction is what I conclude. But when I saw the police handling evidence that way, I gave up. I thank them for coming, offered them I would stand witness to the case, and went home peacefully. After 4 yrs, I have not received a call from the police regarding this case. I assumed (again) either they did great paperwork or pretty much screwed up the case. It does not bother me as I did my best as a passer by; whatever happened after that was police case and not for me to interfere.

    If anyone feel i am telling **** and bull story here, I would not mind meet him in person and go to a nearby police station to verify the case. This is how firm I stand on my facts.

    But why I post this is just to tell everyone here that we should do our part in this society. Whether who screw up after which should not be for us to interfere as we had done our very best. I hope I made my points clear.

    Thanks!




    Quote Originally Posted by sammy888 View Post
    If what you say is true..this is a case that could end careers and create quite a hoopla for the Police force if you launch a complain like this. How did you come to deduce it was an aduction and if the Jap and girl has left, how you know she was raped later or she was raped before the aduction? What else did you or anyone else did in the mean time after the call? If you say crime scene..what is define as a crime scene to you? The rape took place there?

    I can't see why a police would pick up a phone and put in his pocket like that unless he is asking for trouble of not just damaging evidence but for theft too. If it was a site of a crime, a team would be sent down to take evidence. So the case was fully screwed as you did a follow up on the case as a concern citizen or you launch a report on the police. I have to assume since you did do a course in Criminology in the States you have to be involve in some way with the Police or Crime detection organisation? So you could have use your influence to get more details or file a complaint of incompetency with the division? When did this happen?

    Something don't sound right..care to elaborate? I would like to know more.

    This sound more like a badly written Taiwan soap opera then something that happens in Singapore.

  4. #44

    Default Re: Frightening Situation

    Quote Originally Posted by sammy888 View Post

    I can't see why a police would pick up a phone and put in his pocket like that unless he is asking for trouble of not just damaging evidence but for theft too. If it was a site of a crime, a team would be sent down to take evidence. So the case was fully screwed as you did a follow up on the case as a concern citizen or you launch a report on the police. I have to assume since you did do a course in Criminology in the States you have to be involve in some way with the Police or Crime detection organisation? So you could have use your influence to get more details or file a complaint of incompetency with the division? When did this happen?
    As to my my influence on this case (whether or not I had learned criminology or whether I have any contact I know to rake up the matter) is not relevant. I saw myself as a normal citizen. I did my best using the correct protocol which I was taught. It was not my job to teach a police officer (at crime scene) how to handle evidences as he was answerable to his division head. I was only disappointed from what I saw. It was my point of view. No big deal.

    As for rape, I admit, it was a conclusion that led me to think. I apologize if anyone disagrees with my viewpoints. Perhaps something good did happened and the guilty looking Japanese man was her sole savior who resisted any form of aid on the street. Perhaps they were playing S&M after that and had a great night. Or perhaps the police solved the case and forgot to update me. Perhaps we should all have a beer.

    Peace.

  5. #45

    Default Re: Frightening Situation

    Quote Originally Posted by contaxable View Post
    As to my my influence on this case (whether or not I had learned criminology or whether I have any contact I know to rake up the matter) is not relevant. I saw myself as a normal citizen. I did my best using the correct protocol which I was taught. It was not my job to teach a police officer (at crime scene) how to handle evidences as he was answerable to his division head. I was only disappointed from what I saw. It was my point of view. No big deal.

    As for rape, I admit, it was a conclusion that led me to think. I apologize if anyone disagrees with my viewpoints. Perhaps something good did happened and the guilty looking Japanese man was her sole savior who resisted any form of aid on the street. Perhaps they were playing S&M after that and had a great night. Or perhaps the police solved the case and forgot to update me. Perhaps we should all have a beer.

    Peace.
    did you lodge a complaint with the higher ups?

  6. #46
    Senior Member knpan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Frightening Situation

    Quote Originally Posted by wildstallion View Post
    This is rather bad, for such a small place, I can nearly get to Changi from my Clementi AYE exit in that time. The police are only a 5 minute walk down the road from most places!
    Which part of Clementi do you stay? Whats the block number?

  7. #47

    Default Re: Frightening Situation

    Quote Originally Posted by garou12 View Post
    did you lodge a complaint with the higher ups?
    Alright, this may be the last few queries I reply as i think i am doing OT here. Anymore question regarding this incident, feel free to pm me, please.

    To be frank, I saw no point to file a complain for such. It was my point of view that a certain procedure wasnt followed in handling evidences. What I learned about Criminal and Justice was in usa. This is Singapore and they may have their practices. I placed the case in absolute trust it would be handled in a professional manner. Right or wrong, it was not for me take it up further. Honestly, I gave up after what I saw and I kept telling myself it was just my point of view.

    If the Japanese man had caught up with me in one of the three chase, he might have beaten me up as he was very stout, fit looking and filled with anger over me. Over a few minutes, I repeatedly risked my life to save a helpless lady (who could be drugged and/or drunk), did what I could best but just felt something wasn't correctly handled by the police.

    I always tell myself this is Asia. Asians have their ways of doing things. Right or wrong, I leave it with higher justice in heaven to judge. For me, I do my part to contribute back to society in little ways within my limits - if at all my efforts meant anything meaningful at all.

    Anyway, this case has been >4 yrs already. It's a bit late to make such a complain.

  8. #48

    Default Re: Frightening Situation

    Quote Originally Posted by contaxable View Post
    Alright, this may be the last few queries I reply as i think i am doing OT here. Anymore question regarding this incident, feel free to pm me, please.

    To be frank, I saw no point to file a complain for such. It was my point of view that a certain procedure wasnt followed in handling evidences. What I learned about Criminal and Justice was in usa. This is Singapore and they may have their practices. I placed the case in absolute trust it would be handled in a professional manner. Right or wrong, it was not for me take it up further. Honestly, I gave up after what I saw and I kept telling myself it was just my point of view.

    If the Japanese man had caught up with me in one of the three chase, he might have beaten me up as he was very stout, fit looking and filled with anger over me. Over a few minutes, I repeatedly risked my life to save a helpless lady (who could be drugged and/or drunk), did what I could best but just felt something wasn't correctly handled by the police.

    I always tell myself this is Asia. Asians have their ways of doing things. Right or wrong, I leave it with higher justice in heaven to judge. For me, I do my part to contribute back to society in little ways within my limits - if at all my efforts meant anything meaningful at all.

    Anyway, this case has been >4 yrs already. It's a bit late to make such a complain.
    last one too: while i agree with you that the crime scene was contanminated and it sounds like the police didn't handle the case properly, i do think that you shouldn't be applying American Criminal Justice here unless you studied criminology not law. different legal systems...

  9. #49
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    Default Re: Frightening Situation

    Quote Originally Posted by knpan View Post
    Which part of Clementi do you stay? Whats the block number?
    Sunset Way, private house

  10. #50
    vince123123
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    Default Re: Frightening Situation

    Our police is really quite useless from all the anecdotal accounts I've heard. Once in a while they'll solve a high profile case and put it in crime watch for positive publicity. But the usual everyday cases lodged usually meets with no response or a lousy response, or a "its a civil claim" response.

  11. #51

    Default Re: Frightening Situation

    Quote Originally Posted by vince123123 View Post
    Our police is really quite useless from all the anecdotal accounts I've heard. Once in a while they'll solve a high profile case and put it in crime watch for positive publicity. But the usual everyday cases lodged usually meets with no response or a lousy response, or a "its a civil claim" response.
    or Triple nine

  12. #52

    Default Re: Frightening Situation

    Quote Originally Posted by vince123123 View Post
    Our police is really quite useless from all the anecdotal accounts I've heard. Once in a while they'll solve a high profile case and put it in crime watch for positive publicity. But the usual everyday cases lodged usually meets with no response or a lousy response, or a "its a civil claim" response.
    If its a civil claim, there isn't anything the police can do. There are boundaries to what they can and cannot do. This is part and parcel of a society governed by law, not a cowboy town where the sheriff can bend the law in the name of justice. Most of the time when civilians are unhappy with the efficiency of the police force (although there are genuine exceptions), it is becos they are unaware of the inner mechanisms and limitations of the system. Adding to the fact they the men in blue are only normal human beings (not some dramatized CSI detectives manipulated for domestic viewers' consumption); its furthers adds to the system of imperfection. I sure would like to know which police force in the world can meet everyone's demanding expectations.

  13. #53

    Default Re: Frightening Situation

    Quote Originally Posted by garou12 View Post
    last one too: while i agree with you that the crime scene was contanminated and it sounds like the police didn't handle the case properly, i do think that you shouldn't be applying American Criminal Justice here unless you studied criminology not law. different legal systems...
    No problem, I will still answer your query. I believe the answer was in one of the replies I made above this post. I may have taken short courses on law and learned criminology, but these knowledge did not give me the right to question the system. What I learned only helped to shape my thought processing.

    As for handling evidences, regardless of which country, it is quite straight forward. It was really stupid for him to leave his own fingerprints on an important object at crime scene. If it was handled wrongly, the evidence may be considered inadmissible if an established lawyer fought the case.

    I am only a small individual. I can't reach the sky with a small ladder. I am sure the ladder gang would agree with me here.

  14. #54
    vince123123
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    Default Re: Frightening Situation

    The trouble is, the facts clearly disclose a criminal offence, but they say "civil claim". I have heard stories of "civil claim" ranging from boy beat girl, to car driving recklessly and banging 3-4 cars parked etc.

    I personally had one report lodged for a van driving dangerously, almost hitting a pedestrian. A description of the driver (Indian, etc) and license plate was given...and guess what the police told me?

    "Oh we contacted the owner of the van and HE TOLD ME that their company do not have Indian drivers".

    And so the police decided there isn't enough evidence.

    Its almost the same as the police accepting a suspect's statement saying "EH I never murder, I was never there" at face value without bothering to ask further.

    Quote Originally Posted by snowspeeder View Post
    If its a civil claim, there isn't anything the police can do. There are boundaries to what they can and cannot do. This is part and parcel of a society governed by law, not a cowboy town where the sheriff can bend the law in the name of justice. Most of the time when civilians are unhappy with the efficiency of the police force (although there are genuine exceptions), it is becos they are unaware of the inner mechanisms and limitations of the system. Adding to the fact they the men in blue are only normal human beings (not some dramatized CSI detectives manipulated for domestic viewers' consumption); its furthers adds to the system of imperfection. I sure would like to know which police force in the world can meet everyone's demanding expectations.

  15. #55
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    Default Re: Frightening Situation

    Quote Originally Posted by snowspeeder View Post
    If its a civil claim, there isn't anything the police can do. There are boundaries to what they can and cannot do. This is part and parcel of a society governed by law, not a cowboy town where the sheriff can bend the law in the name of justice. Most of the time when civilians are unhappy with the efficiency of the police force (although there are genuine exceptions), it is becos they are unaware of the inner mechanisms and limitations of the system. Adding to the fact they the men in blue are only normal human beings (not some dramatized CSI detectives manipulated for domestic viewers' consumption); its furthers adds to the system of imperfection. I sure would like to know which police force in the world can meet everyone's demanding expectations.
    hi Snowspeeder,

    while i partially agree on the reality of imperfection in even the best organisation but e men in blue is not jus any other uniform. is it not a symbol of a high level of professionalism attached to it? if reaching a crime scene (or 1 that is unfolding, eg, a brawl) in e shortest time possible is not even possible in such a small country state wad more can we count on them for? y even hav emergency numbers like 999/995, y not jus e usual 8-digit number? ttz be-cos in an emergency speed is of e essence. even fast food delivery guys knows this.

    & ttz jus a small part of rants... mayb a news crew would do jus fine recording e events in clips. now there's hard evidence eh?

  16. #56
    Senior Member sammy888's Avatar
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    Default Re: Frightening Situation

    Quote Originally Posted by contaxable View Post

    As for rape, I admit, it was a conclusion that led me to think. I apologize if anyone disagrees with my viewpoints. Perhaps something good did happened and the guilty looking Japanese man was her sole savior who resisted any form of aid on the street. Perhaps they were playing S&M after that and had a great night. Or perhaps the police solved the case and forgot to update me. Perhaps we should all have a beer.

    Peace.
    Well thanks for elaborating on the detail and what your personal perception was at the time of the incident and it can be pretty intense at the time it took place. FOr the sake of staying on topic I will leave it at that and well it is good that in your own way you did your best to help in the situation.

  17. #57

    Default Re: Frightening Situation

    Quote Originally Posted by sORe-EyEz View Post
    hi Snowspeeder,

    while i partially agree on the reality of imperfection in even the best organisation but e men in blue is not jus any other uniform. is it not a symbol of a high level of professionalism attached to it? if reaching a crime scene (or 1 that is unfolding, eg, a brawl) in e shortest time possible is not even possible in such a small country state wad more can we count on them for? y even hav emergency numbers like 999/995, y not jus e usual 8-digit number? ttz be-cos in an emergency speed is of e essence. even fast food delivery guys knows this.

    & ttz jus a small part of rants... mayb a news crew would do jus fine recording e events in clips. now there's hard evidence eh?
    I believe it would be good if there's hard evidence on video clip eg fight scene. That way, the police will have something solid to base on in their investigation.

    See, the thing is, it is way too easy for anyone to make comments on the efficiency of the enforcement officers if you've never experienced what life is like being one. I served my national service in the force a long time ago and will now be completing my reservist cycle
    come next year. From my observation, indeed, there's certainly always room for improvement needed in the system.

    But having said that, I've also witnessed numerous members of public having unrealistic expectations, on how things should be done, largely due to ignorance. There're protocols and procedures in any organization. Simply relying on one's perception of common sense sometimes just don't work that way.

    FYI, a brawl can take less than a minute or two before the assailants run away. So even in emergency cases when someone dials 999, the first officer to arrive would be on average 10 minutes later (after the call has been made). Maybe slightly longer at times depending on the location etc.

  18. #58

    Default Re: Frightening Situation

    Quote Originally Posted by vince123123 View Post
    The trouble is, the facts clearly disclose a criminal offence, but they say "civil claim". I have heard stories of "civil claim" ranging from boy beat girl, to car driving recklessly and banging 3-4 cars parked etc.

    I personally had one report lodged for a van driving dangerously, almost hitting a pedestrian. A description of the driver (Indian, etc) and license plate was given...and guess what the police told me?

    "Oh we contacted the owner of the van and HE TOLD ME that their company do not have Indian drivers".

    And so the police decided there isn't enough evidence.

    Its almost the same as the police accepting a suspect's statement saying "EH I never murder, I was never there" at face value without bothering to ask further.
    Hmmm...I'm not sure about the facts of the case you're referring to. But was there recorded evidence on the reckless driving? Was the pedestrian with you when lodging a report? Was there injury and ambulance called? Cos if its just a person or 2 making unsubstantiated claims without evidence, what do you expect the police to do? Get a warrant to search the driver's company? If you're not sure how things work, can always write in to the HQ to get an answer. I think that jumping to conclusions won't help anyone really.

  19. #59
    vince123123
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    Default Re: Frightening Situation

    There is no recorded evidence, but there is eyewitness evidence.

    There was no injury and no ambulance called. As you may have noted above, it was a near miss.

    Many crimes are reported and convicted solely based on eyewitness testimony, e.g. molest cases.

    If the person reporting it is not to be believed, then why is the police believing the other person, especially the suspect? Aren't both at least equal? If so, wouldn't it warrant further investigation rather than just believing one party over another?

    FYI, more info since you apparently think the police did their job well. Initially, due to the fast moving circumstance, only the first letters of the license plate and the number was noted. The last letter was not noted. The colour of the van was noted.

    You know what the police told me? "OH you dont have the complete license number, we can't do anything".

    It was only after I suggested "why dont you check the vehicle records, see which ones are vans, have license number and first letters correspond, then form there, cross check to see which one match the colour". It was only after I, a layman not in the field of investigations suggesting that, then they went "Oh, okay".

    And they promptly came up with one shortlisted registration (after which the whole affair about the asking the owner if they have Indian workers started".

    I only expect the police to investigate, not to conclude, but it appears even asking them to investigate is squeezing blood from a stone.

    I'm not sure who is the one jumping to conclusions here.

    Quote Originally Posted by snowspeeder View Post
    Hmmm...I'm not sure about the facts of the case you're referring to. But was there recorded evidence on the reckless driving? Was the pedestrian with you when lodging a report? Was there injury and ambulance called? Cos if its just a person or 2 making unsubstantiated claims without evidence, what do you expect the police to do? Get a warrant to search the driver's company? If you're not sure how things work, can always write in to the HQ to get an answer. I think that jumping to conclusions won't help anyone really.

  20. #60

    Default Re: Frightening Situation

    Quote Originally Posted by vince123123 View Post
    There is no recorded evidence, but there is eyewitness evidence.

    There was no injury and no ambulance called. As you may have noted above, it was a near miss.

    Many crimes are reported and convicted solely based on eyewitness testimony, e.g. molest cases.

    If the person reporting it is not to be believed, then why is the police believing the other person, especially the suspect? Aren't both at least equal? If so, wouldn't it warrant further investigation rather than just believing one party over another?

    FYI, more info since you apparently think the police did their job well. Initially, due to the fast moving circumstance, only the first letters of the license plate and the number was noted. The last letter was not noted. The colour of the van was noted.

    You know what the police told me? "OH you dont have the complete license number, we can't do anything".

    It was only after I suggested "why dont you check the vehicle records, see which ones are vans, have license number and first letters correspond, then form there, cross check to see which one match the colour". It was only after I, a layman not in the field of investigations suggesting that, then they went "Oh, okay".

    And they promptly came up with one shortlisted registration (after which the whole affair about the asking the owner if they have Indian workers started".

    I only expect the police to investigate, not to conclude, but it appears even asking them to investigate is squeezing blood from a stone.

    I'm not sure who is the one jumping to conclusions here.
    did you make a complaint to the higher ups?

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