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Thread: What's wrong with model agencies these days?

  1. #1

    Default What's wrong with model agencies these days?

    One fine day, you're came acrossed a registered model agency website and realised that some of the photo(s) you took ended up there without your knowledge and permission... And also pictures taken by friends and another model agency's photographer... What's worse is that there's the (C) sign over your picture as if this picture is taken by their in-house photographer?

    Granted, the models may use the pictures for job applications, but what's wrong with the modeling agency? The modeling agency is providing photography as well, and looking at the pictures with their (C) over your pictures, things are just isn't right...

    Just what is wrong? I thought is only some model shoot organisers in forums will do such things... Now degraded till registered model agency... Not even "credits to respective photographers" although this still doesn't really help either when photographer is unknown... I wonder how low commercial photography can go man...
    I am NOT a PROfessional photographer and photography is NOT my hobby

  2. #2

    Default Re: What's wrong with model agencies these days?

    Quote Originally Posted by Youhong View Post
    One fine day, you're came acrossed a registered model agency website and realised that some of the photo(s) you took ended up there without your knowledge and permission... And also pictures taken by friends and another model agency's photographer... What's worse is that there's the (C) sign over your picture as if this picture is taken by their in-house photographer?

    Granted, the models may use the pictures for job applications, but what's wrong with the modeling agency? The modeling agency is providing photography as well, and looking at the pictures with their (C) over your pictures, things are just isn't right...

    Just what is wrong? I thought is only some model shoot organisers in forums will do such things... Now degraded till registered model agency... Not even "credits to respective photographers" although this still doesn't really help either when photographer is unknown... I wonder how low commercial photography can go man...
    what is the agency in question that did this?

  3. #3
    vince123123
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    Default Re: What's wrong with model agencies these days?

    I agree with the last paragraph, and usually post a comment when I see those "credit to an unnamed photographer" sort of useless comment.

    Its also good to tell us who the agency is. You are also entitled to send a letter of demand to them for copyright infringement if that are grounds to do so.

    Quote Originally Posted by Youhong View Post
    One fine day, you're came acrossed a registered model agency website and realised that some of the photo(s) you took ended up there without your knowledge and permission... And also pictures taken by friends and another model agency's photographer... What's worse is that there's the (C) sign over your picture as if this picture is taken by their in-house photographer?

    Granted, the models may use the pictures for job applications, but what's wrong with the modeling agency? The modeling agency is providing photography as well, and looking at the pictures with their (C) over your pictures, things are just isn't right...

    Just what is wrong? I thought is only some model shoot organisers in forums will do such things... Now degraded till registered model agency... Not even "credits to respective photographers" although this still doesn't really help either when photographer is unknown... I wonder how low commercial photography can go man...

  4. #4

    Default Re: What's wrong with model agencies these days?

    TFCD can demand for breach of copyright?
    Gallery | Facebook Page Spreading the Good photography.

  5. #5

    Default Re: What's wrong with model agencies these days?

    Quote Originally Posted by CYRN View Post
    TFCD can demand for breach of copyright?
    yea because the photog still own the rights to the shots unless he signed them away.

  6. #6
    Senior Member zac08's Avatar
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    Default Re: What's wrong with model agencies these days?

    Which agency is it?
    Michael Lim
    My Flickr Site

  7. #7
    Member kirk's Avatar
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    Default Re: What's wrong with model agencies these days?

    Quote Originally Posted by Youhong View Post
    One fine day, you're came acrossed a registered model agency website and realised that some of the photo(s) you took ended up there without your knowledge and permission... And also pictures taken by friends and another model agency's photographer... What's worse is that there's the (C) sign over your picture as if this picture is taken by their in-house photographer?

    Granted, the models may use the pictures for job applications, but what's wrong with the modeling agency? The modeling agency is providing photography as well, and looking at the pictures with their (C) over your pictures, things are just isn't right...

    Just what is wrong? I thought is only some model shoot organisers in forums will do such things... Now degraded till registered model agency... Not even "credits to respective photographers" although this still doesn't really help either when photographer is unknown... I wonder how low commercial photography can go man...
    Hi Alvin

    The model in question had assured us that it was fine for us to use the photos in her compcard to help her get jobs hence we had assumed that she was granted permission by her photographer ie you, to put the photos in her compcard. Apparently, this was not the case.

    As explained to you over email. the compcard was based on a previous template for another model that had such a (c) mark, which was on the lower left hand corner. Due to the small size of the mark, we have overlooked the mark and it was left on the card. Upon receiving your notice, we immediately removed the compcard and proceeded to make arrangements to make a new one.

    It was not our intention to put such markings on photos that are not produced by us. We respect the work and effort that fellow photographers had put in to produce photos and will give appropriate credit to the respective photographers.

    Stemming from such an incidence, we have implemented a system whereby all models will have to undergo a sponsored shoot by us to get photos for their compcards. Photos from other photographers will not be used so that we do not mistakenly infringe upon the copyright of photographers.

    Cheers!

    Kirk

  8. #8

    Default Re: What's wrong with model agencies these days?

    Quote Originally Posted by garou12 View Post
    yea because the photog still own the rights to the shots unless he signed them away.
    ummm... then why model still TFCD?
    Gallery | Facebook Page Spreading the Good photography.

  9. #9

    Default Re: What's wrong with model agencies these days?

    Quote Originally Posted by CYRN View Post
    ummm... then why model still TFCD?
    to get copies of the shots. overall copyrights still retained by the creator of the photos i.e the photographer. TFCD doesn't mean your right to copyright ownship is given up.

  10. #10
    vince123123
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    Default Re: What's wrong with model agencies these days?

    Yeap, copyright retained, license to use granted.

  11. #11

    Default Re: What's wrong with model agencies these days?

    Quote Originally Posted by vince123123 View Post
    Yeap, copyright retained, license to use granted.
    that being said, its a good thing the agency in question took the initiative to come forward and clarify matters.

  12. #12

    Default Re: What's wrong with model agencies these days?

    Heard from my boss as well about not using other photographers photos unless own resident or permitted by outsource friends photographers and after he and Rachele met up Tuck for some advise on this, they are going through a revamp on the photos just incase into some sort of unnecessary miscommunication. Sometimes is the words from the models and no one hears the other side of the story from photographers kind of confuse the situation so is only safe for agencies to shoot their own pictures bah.

    Then again, if credits mentioned will be good for photograhpers in terms of publicity?
    Last edited by iluvmazda; 11th December 2007 at 02:45 AM.

  13. #13

    Default Re: What's wrong with model agencies these days?

    At the end of the day, maybe models should be educated on such copyright issues. I'm sure they're not just a bunch of pretty faces.

  14. #14

    Default Re: What's wrong with model agencies these days?

    Quote Originally Posted by snowspeeder View Post
    At the end of the day, maybe models should be educated on such copyright issues. I'm sure they're not just a bunch of pretty faces.
    Oh.............they are just a bunch of pretty face...........

  15. #15

    Default Re: What's wrong with model agencies these days?

    Yup, they need to be educated on some copyright knowledge.

    Your instance is very similar to mine a few weeks ago.

    http://forums.clubsnap.com/showthread.php?t=323309

    I emailed the agency but gotten no response. In the end, the modelling agency which commissioned the test shoots asked them to take down the pictures and only then do they respond. We still have some commercial pictures and test shoot ones there but we continued to let them use them on their site. Till today, the agency did not even reply nor try to contact me nor apologise man

    Well, luckily they have provided models for editorial shoots/shows/Demo shoots for us, providing very good price packages for us, our associates and fellow bros/sisters (portfolio shoots). We decided to continue let them use the pictures in the interests of promoting the local girls

    Give and take and make friends? If not, the model in question might be deprived till her new comcard is up and ready to be sent to clients?

    Cheers,
    Tuck

  16. #16

    Default Re: What's wrong with model agencies these days?

    Quote Originally Posted by Buckteeth LCL View Post
    Yup, they need to be educated on some copyright knowledge.

    Your instance is very similar to mine a few weeks ago.

    http://forums.clubsnap.com/showthread.php?t=323309

    I emailed the agency but gotten no response. In the end, the modelling agency which commissioned the test shoots asked them to take down the pictures and only then do they respond. We still have some commercial pictures and test shoot ones there but we continued to let them use them on their site. Till today, the agency did not even reply nor try to contact me nor apologise man

    Well, luckily they have provided models for editorial shoots/shows/Demo shoots for us, providing very good price packages for us, our associates and fellow bros/sisters (portfolio shoots). We decided to continue let them use the pictures in the interests of promoting the local girls

    Give and take and make friends? If not, the model in question might be deprived till her new comcard is up and ready to be sent to clients?

    Cheers,
    Tuck
    that's a very good point. sometimes tis better to live and let die.

  17. #17
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    Default Re: What's wrong with model agencies these days?

    I suppose the best way to avoid these trouble is not to post photos as well as not to give the photos away(unless TFCD).

  18. #18
    Member kirk's Avatar
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    Default Re: What's wrong with model agencies these days?

    We have been entering in several correspondences with the photographer and we will copy our email replies to him here.

    Our first reply
    "As mentioned before, we have no intention of claiming copyrights to photographs that were not taken by us as we know how much work and effort had been put into producing photos.
    The copyright tag that was above your picture was overlooked due to the small size while we were editing the compcard over a template. It was truly unintentional.
    In order to prevent any possibility of copyright infringement in future, we have decided that all Singapore models will be required to undergo shoots with us for their compcard. We will no longer be accepting photos taken by other photographers.
    We will take note of photos that carry your name and copyright in future so that we will not mistakenly put your photos in compcards, to avoid any future similar situations.

    Compcards of Singapore models with pictures not taken by us have been removed yesterday. Elaine's photo (this is the name of another model)with the car has been replaced with another photo. If you are still seeing the old compcard, please refresh your browser as the browser probably retrieved the compcard from your computer history/cache. There are some models who had paid other photographers to shoot the photos and provided us with the photos. The photos therefore belong to the model and are fine to be used in compcards hence their compcards are still online.

    Without the compcard, our main means of promoting the model is gone. Since we are not allowed to use photos taken by other photographers, we can no longer show clients the photos nor the compcard. This amounts to a suspension since clients cannot see what the model looks like without photos/compcards. Without seeing the model, they will not pick her for casting nor choose her. Although we would like to continue helping the model during this period, technically our hands are tied as we do not wish to infringe your copyright or that of other photographers. We will reinstate the model once we arrange a shoot with her to get her photos. "

  19. #19
    Member kirk's Avatar
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    Default Re: What's wrong with model agencies these days?

    Our second reply

    "Thanks for bringing up the matter of Shan's (name of another model) compcard to us. We have rectified the compcard in question. The watermark was not present when we received the copy so perhaps you might wish to clarify with the model herself.

    In order for us to carry on any correspondence effectively, we will need to explain to you how the industry works. The modelling industry is heavily dependant on photos for the models to get jobs. When the models sign up to agencies, the models present photos and tearsheets from their portfolio. These photos are usually results of test shoots done by the models for which the models were allowed to use the photos to get jobs or from well meaning photographers provide the photos to the models after shooting them during events. Tearsheets are cutouts of jobs that models had done for from magazines, advertisements and newspapers. Model agencies represent the models and act on their behalf hence they are authorised by the models to present photos and tearsheets to clients and to handle all administratives affairs. Such a portfolio present the models in a good light and are an effective aid to help them gain an edge over the competition and secure jobs. As models do jobs over the years, they accumulate a portfolio of photos and tearsheets from which they can show clients. In order to effectively market the models and help them get jobs, agencies HAVE to use their portfolio. If agencies are limited to use only photos that are commissioned by the agencies themselves, then the models effectively have to do many many test shoots with the agencies to get many good photos. Such commissioned shoots however cannot effectively communicate to the clients what experiences the models have. Only photos and tearsheets from previous jobs can do that. Models have the right to switch agencies and to take their portfolio along with them to their new agencies. The governing limitation on whether photos done by one agency can be used by another agencies is to be imposed on the model by her previous agency. There is no requirement that model agencies have to do a portfolio for the models. You might wish to check with all the rest of the model agencies in Singapore on this matter.

    In addition, not all agencies have their own photography division and retain the copyright. They outsource test shoots to photographers that are linked to them and copyright is still retained by the photographers. However, the models and model agencies are allowed to use the photos.

    In our statement on our first page, we had mentioned that images are copyrighted. This means that with reference to all photos, the copyright is retained by the photographers who had created the photos, whether it is commissioned by the agencies or from other sources.
    The statement is meant to serve as a reminder to all users of the website that they are not to reproduce the photos in other photo gallery websites so that they do not infringe upon the photographers' copyright. Prior to producing the compcards, we had carried out due diligence checks with models on whether photos that they submitted could be used in the compcards. The photos are only used if the models themselves certified that they are allowed to use them by the photographers.

    In future, if you do not desire your photos to be distributed and used by models or given to model agencies to market the models, please inform the models so that they can similarly inform their agencies. Sometimes models forget hence the best option to remind them is to provide them with an agreement stating how the photos that you provide can be used.

    We'll like to thank you for your active interest in our models' affairs. All models who had been affected by this issue have already been informed not to use any of your photos and will be having their shoots soon."

  20. #20
    vince123123
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    Default Re: What's wrong with model agencies these days?

    Since it is well known that you have retained legal advisers, you may wish to seek legal advice on the points in bold below - some carry legal inaccuracies, and the other carries legal risk as the due dilligence involved is not sufficient to stave off a copyright infringement action.

    As for the penultimate paragraph, it is not the copyright holder's duty to inform anyone on what he can or cannot do with the subject of these rights. In the absence of a license granted, the copyright holder remains the exclusive holder of the rights granted under the Copyright Act and no such notification is required.

    Quote Originally Posted by kirk View Post
    Our second reply

    "Thanks for bringing up the matter of Shan's (name of another model) compcard to us. We have rectified the compcard in question. The watermark was not present when we received the copy so perhaps you might wish to clarify with the model herself.

    In order for us to carry on any correspondence effectively, we will need to explain to you how the industry works. The modelling industry is heavily dependant on photos for the models to get jobs. When the models sign up to agencies, the models present photos and tearsheets from their portfolio. These photos are usually results of test shoots done by the models for which the models were allowed to use the photos to get jobs or from well meaning photographers provide the photos to the models after shooting them during events. Tearsheets are cutouts of jobs that models had done for from magazines, advertisements and newspapers. Model agencies represent the models and act on their behalf hence they are authorised by the models to present photos and tearsheets to clients and to handle all administratives affairs. Such a portfolio present the models in a good light and are an effective aid to help them gain an edge over the competition and secure jobs. As models do jobs over the years, they accumulate a portfolio of photos and tearsheets from which they can show clients. In order to effectively market the models and help them get jobs, agencies HAVE to use their portfolio. If agencies are limited to use only photos that are commissioned by the agencies themselves, then the models effectively have to do many many test shoots with the agencies to get many good photos. Such commissioned shoots however cannot effectively communicate to the clients what experiences the models have. Only photos and tearsheets from previous jobs can do that. Models have the right to switch agencies and to take their portfolio along with them to their new agencies. The governing limitation on whether photos done by one agency can be used by another agencies is to be imposed on the model by her previous agency. There is no requirement that model agencies have to do a portfolio for the models. You might wish to check with all the rest of the model agencies in Singapore on this matter.

    In addition, not all agencies have their own photography division and retain the copyright. They outsource test shoots to photographers that are linked to them and copyright is still retained by the photographers. However, the models and model agencies are allowed to use the photos.

    In our statement on our first page, we had mentioned that images are copyrighted. This means that with reference to all photos, the copyright is retained by the photographers who had created the photos, whether it is commissioned by the agencies or from other sources.
    The statement is meant to serve as a reminder to all users of the website that they are not to reproduce the photos in other photo gallery websites so that they do not infringe upon the photographers' copyright. Prior to producing the compcards, we had carried out due diligence checks with models on whether photos that they submitted could be used in the compcards. The photos are only used if the models themselves certified that they are allowed to use them by the photographers.

    In future, if you do not desire your photos to be distributed and used by models or given to model agencies to market the models, please inform the models so that they can similarly inform their agencies. Sometimes models forget hence the best option to remind them is to provide them with an agreement stating how the photos that you provide can be used.

    We'll like to thank you for your active interest in our models' affairs. All models who had been affected by this issue have already been informed not to use any of your photos and will be having their shoots soon."
    Last edited by vince123123; 12th December 2007 at 12:28 PM.

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