View Poll Results: Are you a lzy photographer?

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  • Yes! I press the shutter button without thought until I get back to my computer...

    3 3.37%
  • No! I always try to get it right in camera and make adjustments later...

    57 64.04%
  • Sometimes I just can't be bothered, but I unsderstand the need to get it right first time.

    18 20.22%
  • I have no idea what I'm doing and I just hope for the best when pressing the shutter button.

    11 12.36%
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Thread: Are you a lazy photographer?

  1. #1

    Default Are you a lazy photographer?

    From my post in another thread. I am curious, how many here are already or are becoming lazy photographers? What I mean, given the flexibility and simplicity with which images recorded on a digital camera can be manipulated after being recorded (using RAW converters, PS, whatever.....), how many of you take the snap with the view that you will correct the problems later, ignoring for the most part the essentials of image taking. Things like, 'proper exposure', 'noise control', working with or controlling the light (the essence of all photography) - do these even cross your mind when pressing the shutter button?

    Of course there are always exceptions, and always have been, e.g. journalism where some shot is pften better then no shot, low-light event photography, etc... I'm not really talking about these. More about general shooting, portraiture, landscapes, etc. I'm getting the feeling that many people (an increasing number) simply compose and press the shutter button, comfortable in the knowledge that they have a wid latitude to correct things that should have been correct to begin with.
    sk.images, ex - cyber_m0nkey

  2. #2

    Default Re: Are you a lazy photographer?

    1. Shooting at P mode is not "lazy".

    2. However, I do see photographers not understanding what they're doing. They don't understand light, composition, posing, etc. RAW converters, PS, etc. cannot help such people. This is not about being lazy-- it's being ignorant. No amount of PS can help if your composition does not work.

    3. There is also the "digital is free" mentality. People who like to shoot bursts, even for stationary subjects, simply because they can. The art of the decisive moment has been lost.

    Quote Originally Posted by sk.images View Post
    From my post in another thread. I am curious, how many here are already or are becoming lazy photographers? What I mean, given the flexibility and simplicity with which images recorded on a digital camera can be manipulated after being recorded (using RAW converters, PS, whatever.....), how many of you take the snap with the view that you will correct the problems later, ignoring for the most part the essentials of image taking. Things like, 'proper exposure', 'noise control', working with or controlling the light (the essence of all photography) - do these even cross your mind when pressing the shutter button?

    Of course there are always exceptions, and always have been, e.g. journalism where some shot is pften better then no shot, low-light event photography, etc... I'm not really talking about these. More about general shooting, portraiture, landscapes, etc. I'm getting the feeling that many people (an increasing number) simply compose and press the shutter button, comfortable in the knowledge that they have a wid latitude to correct things that should have been correct to begin with.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Are you a lazy photographer?

    Quote Originally Posted by sk.images View Post
    I'm not really talking about these. More about general shooting, portraiture, landscapes, etc. I'm getting the feeling that many people (an increasing number) simply compose and press the shutter button, comfortable in the knowledge that they have a wid latitude to correct things that should have been correct to begin with.
    it is the digital age

    what do you expect? that people will not make full use of what the digital format offers over film? there is nothing wrong with that, so long as people learn, and do not remain at a 0.01% success rate, i.e. for every 10000 pictures they take only 1 is exposed correctly, etc.

    so what would you prefer? someone to try a one shot one kill routine, who never gets the shot that could have changed someone else's life.. or someone who knows how to get the best out of what he has?

    i review all my pictures immediately after i shoot them. if it isn't good or exactly what i wanted, i take it again until i get what i want. could film users do that? i don't think so.

    sometimes it isn't just about lighting and/or composition. it's also about the vision. and if you don't think the photo you have taken can make that mark, there's nothing wrong with doing it again, so long as you learn

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Are you a lazy photographer?

    Quote Originally Posted by waileong View Post
    1. Shooting at P mode is not "lazy".

    2. However, I do see photographers not understanding what they're doing. They don't understand light, composition, posing, etc. RAW converters, PS, etc. cannot help such people. This is not about being lazy-- it's being ignorant. No amount of PS can help if your composition does not work.

    3. There is also the "digital is free" mentality. People who like to shoot bursts, even for stationary subjects, simply because they can. The art of the decisive moment has been lost.
    I agree with all of that.

    When I'm shooting sports, obviously, I can't ask the people to do it again, but I see a lot of people shooting things that just don't matter at the same place, just to look professional. They often shoot in burst mode because they don't know if they can get a good shot or not. Of course, they also tend to use a certain brand and act very arrogant but they don't tend to be very good at what they're paid to do.

    When I have time to shoot flowers or animals, I tend to take some time to get everything just right because it's more likely that I can get what I want a second time, if need be.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Are you a lazy photographer?

    Quote Originally Posted by waileong View Post
    3. There is also the "digital is free" mentality. People who like to shoot bursts, even for stationary subjects, simply because they can. The art of the decisive moment has been lost.
    Hmm, never heard of Henri Cartier-Bresson commenting about his still life shots as "decisive moments".

    Dunno about other machine gunners but I do this at times when I need a tripod but did not carry one so I have to depend on IS. I burst or just take multiple repeats of the same shot because the Image Stabiliser is at the verge of failing (usually 1st shot poor, some of the subsequent shots OK) when used at its typical 3-4 stops advantage capability limit. I think, when your hand/body shakes there are times in which the vibration is at a minimum (picture the peaks and valleys of a sine wave) and if you burst, you can get those lull periods to correspond with your camera or lens' IS limit. Of course, I would prefer bracing my arms or cam against a stationery object if I can.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Are you a lazy photographer?

    There no 'All of the above' option.

    Seriously, I do not try to limit myself to one facet/approach or another, but apply each according to situations and circumstances. Life is already so limiting, so why limit my own photography?

  7. #7

    Default Re: Are you a lazy photographer?

    Indeed. But the key word is "even".

    Quote Originally Posted by cjtune View Post
    Hmm, never heard of Henri Cartier-Bresson commenting about his still life shots as "decisive moments".
    Last edited by waileong; 9th December 2007 at 12:18 PM.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Are you a lazy photographer?

    Quote Originally Posted by waileong View Post
    Indeed. But the key word is "even".
    Why should it be exclusive?

  9. #9

    Default Re: Are you a lazy photographer?

    1. Exposure, focus, sharpness, etc. are not issues any more. Camera makers have overcome it with technology. It's difficult to find a truly badly exposed shot done at P mode, even by an amateur.

    2. Some people think they can trade volume for skill. If I can't nail it with one shot, I'll take 100, play the numbers and I'll get it, they think.

    This is fallacy. If you don't understand what you're doing, even 100 shots is not enough.

    If you insist on shooting when the light is wrong, or shooting with a composition that just doesn't work, you'll just get 100 well-exposed but useless images.

    3. At one level, photography is about thinking and planning ahead, and having an eye for detail. That requires hard work and study. Not just a camera with 12 fps.

    The aim should be for photography to become like driving. When you start learning how to drive a car, you kanan kabok, you worry about the brake, accelerator, gear, other traffic, etc. and you're very unsure and uncoordinated.

    When you're an experienced driver, you change gears without thinking, you can think about where you want to go next, carry a conversation when driving, you can plan your route and even enjoy the scenery because your body already drives in automatic mode.

    4. The aim with photography should be the same. You should know what your camera and lens can do so well that you can then think about light and composition, and plan ahead for what's going to happen next.

    I don't think a 100 fps 100 MP camera with 1000 focus points and Photoshop ver 10 will help the photographers reach this level.

    5. Perhaps laziness could be indicated by how hard people are willing to study and learn to improve their photography. Not about how much hard work they are willing to put into PS to save their CMI shots.


    Quote Originally Posted by night86mare View Post

    what do you expect? that people will not make full use of what the digital format offers over film? there is nothing wrong with that, so long as people learn, and do not remain at a 0.01% success rate, i.e. for every 10000 pictures they take only 1 is exposed correctly, etc.

    so what would you prefer? someone to try a one shot one kill routine, who never gets the shot that could have changed someone else's life.. or someone who knows how to get the best out of what he has?

    i review all my pictures immediately after i shoot them. if it isn't good or exactly what i wanted, i take it again until i get what i want. could film users do that? i don't think so.

    sometimes it isn't just about lighting and/or composition. it's also about the vision. and if you don't think the photo you have taken can make that mark, there's nothing wrong with doing it again, so long as you learn
    And by the way, film users can review after shooting, that's what polaroids are for, eg in studio situations when lighting ratios need to be checked.

    However, the key point of shooting film is to know what your equipment can do through experience, so one can be confidenct and there is no self-doubt about whether one has nailed the shot. This is a valuable skill one can learn even for digital as what's going to happen next could be more important than what has already passed.
    Last edited by waileong; 9th December 2007 at 01:31 PM.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Are you a lazy photographer?

    Quote Originally Posted by cjtune View Post
    Why should it be exclusive?
    I never said anything about "exclusive". I just didn't want the correct meaning in context to be lost, ie that people are shooting burst in all situations, even in situations that do not require it such as stationary subjects.
    Last edited by waileong; 9th December 2007 at 12:33 PM.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Are you a lazy photographer?

    Quote Originally Posted by waileong View Post
    I never said anything about "exclusive". I just didn't want the correct meaning in context to be lost, ie that people are shooting burst in all situations, even in situations that do not require it such as stationary subjects.
    But I just gave an example of why it could be required, *even* for stationary objects.

    Seems like assumptions of requirements are being made here.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Are you a lazy photographer?

    if u can combine army training's IFC movement with photography...u'll be amazed @ how far u can go..

  13. #13

    Default Re: Are you a lazy photographer?

    Quote Originally Posted by cjtune View Post
    But I just gave an example of why it could be required, *even* for stationary objects.

    Seems like assumptions of requirements are being made here.
    1. See Post #7--- I was clarifying in response your remark about HCB. #10 is a followup.

    2. I have no view about whether you NEED burst mode for your own IS equipment failure. The point I've made, and I repeat, is that I see people are shooting burst mode in all kinds of situations, and that they no longer seem to care about nailing the decisive moment.

    3. This is not a technology or equipment failure issue. It's a mentality. And in my view, a crutch mentality, driven by a fear of missing the decisive moment, and thus trying to make up for that fear through sheer fps.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Are you a lazy photographer?

    Quote Originally Posted by waileong View Post
    1. See Post #7--- I was clarifying in response your remark about HCB. #10 is a followup.

    2. I have no view about whether you NEED burst mode for your own IS equipment failure. The point I've made, and I repeat, is that I see people are shooting burst mode in all kinds of situations, and that they no longer seem to care about nailing the decisive moment.

    3. This is not a technology or equipment failure issue. It's a mentality. And in my view, a crutch mentality, driven by a fear of missing the decisive moment, and thus trying to make up for that fear through sheer fps.
    I think this is another assumption that one mentality is less efficient/effective than the other. They are simply shifting from framing the decisive moment in the field, to that in front of their computer when they are at home. So what makes you think *you* cannot possibly benefit from that sort of mentality?

    Why do you think the burst functionality is there in the first place?

  15. #15

    Default Re: Are you a lazy photographer?

    This thread wasn't meant to illicit argument, although I expected it would. My question wasn't regarding burt mode or P-mode (I'll come back to this) but rather photographers whether they know nothing, a little or a lot that shoot with a mind set along the lines of - "I don't need to worry about the technicalities of the shot now, I'll just fix it later".

    As for having vision, well, you can't capture your vision, unless all the components of that vision are there, composition and exposure - both of which can be manipulated later (again nothing wrong with this).

    Burst mode, very simply was created for sports (and to a slightly lesser degree, wildlife)photographers. Sure it can be used in other circumstances, but again, that's not what I'm talking about here.

    Maybe another way to ask the question would be - "Is photographic creativity shifting from the camera to the computer?".
    sk.images, ex - cyber_m0nkey

  16. #16

    Default Re: Are you a lazy photographer?

    1. Good. At least we're debating mentality, not about whether your equipment failure makes you need multiple shots and thus is an exception that proves burst mode is necessary even for stationary subjects.

    2. As for your question, my views are in Post #9.

    Quote Originally Posted by cjtune View Post
    I think this is another assumption that one mentality is less efficient/effective than the other. They are simply shifting from framing the decisive moment in the field, to that in front of their computer when they are at home. So what makes you think *you* cannot possibly benefit from that sort of mentality?

    Why do you think the burst functionality is there in the first place?
    Last edited by waileong; 9th December 2007 at 02:34 PM.

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Are you a lazy photographer?

    for what I know, the real lazy photographers are one who choose option 4, and those always think the next camera, lenses and many fancy equipment will make better photos.

    the rest are not lazy, they are choosing whether to spend more time before the shot or after the shot.
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  18. #18

    Default Re: Are you a lazy photographer?

    Quote Originally Posted by catchlights View Post
    the rest are not lazy, they are choosing whether to spend more time before the shot or after the shot.
    Despite the extremely wide latitude for correction (as distinct from manipulation), there really is no substitute for getting it right the first time. What I see happening is that photographers are not 'seeing' the light until it is on the comupter monitor, e.g. model shoot, they don't even notice the harsh shadows and are quite happy to shoot in full sun at mid day, rather then make it a couple of hours sooner, or later or even move the model to another location where the light is more diffuse. It's more about shooting as many frames as possible (nothing to do with burst mode) and selecting a very small percentage as keepers, which in reallity are all pretty bad anyway.
    sk.images, ex - cyber_m0nkey

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Are you a lazy photographer?

    Quote Originally Posted by sk.images View Post
    This thread wasn't meant to illicit argument, although I expected it would. My question wasn't regarding burt mode or P-mode (I'll come back to this) but rather photographers whether they know nothing, a little or a lot that shoot with a mind set along the lines of - "I don't need to worry about the technicalities of the shot now, I'll just fix it later".

    As for having vision, well, you can't capture your vision, unless all the components of that vision are there, composition and exposure - both of which can be manipulated later (again nothing wrong with this).

    Burst mode, very simply was created for sports (and to a slightly lesser degree, wildlife)photographers. Sure it can be used in other circumstances, but again, that's not what I'm talking about here.

    Maybe another way to ask the question would be - "Is photographic creativity shifting from the camera to the computer?".
    there's nothing wrong in the shift, it's a natural course of development following the proliferation of digital technology. it looks like a ''problem'' for photography art, but do remember when photography was invented, it was a problem for other traditional visual arts (especially painting.) in the broadest sense, photography is making art using images of reality via light sensors. mediums can be changed and are changing. the moment you apply a qualitative judgement such as ''lazy'' you're already denying some methods. end of the day, only the image matters.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Are you a lazy photographer?

    Quote Originally Posted by waileong View Post
    1. Good. At least we're debating mentality, not about whether your equipment failure makes you need multiple shots and thus is an exception that proves burst mode is necessary even for stationary subjects.

    2. As for your question, my views are in Post #9.
    As with all laws, I guess there is always room for exceptions...

    I foresee in the future that a convergence will happen between still image cameras and videos, when high-definition videos are able to capture gallery and publication-worthy still shots. Then, the question of whether to burst or not to burst would be moot.

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