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Thread: Why do photographers want to keep paid shoot photos all for themselves?

  1. #1

    Default Why do photographers want to keep paid shoot photos all for themselves?

    Hmmm,

    this question has been bothering me for quite some time...


    I've done a few paid shoots, and most of the time, the photographers seem unwilling to share some of the better pictures..


    I understand that they have paid for the model's services so it's not like TFCD, but the thing I don't understand is - Even if you have paid the model, what harm is done by sharing?


    Afterall, it IS the model's pictures, wouldn't it be nice to share with her some of the work that you and her have achieved together?


    It's not like she's demanding you to upload every single photo into her laptop..



    If the photos aren't meant for some client or anything,

    And if you don't show the model the photos or put it up for public view (portfolio or something), then what are you going to do with it? Open the picture and stare at it everyday by yourself?






    I'm fairly new to this whole modelling thing, so anyone care to englighten me?

  2. #2

    Default Re: Why do photographers want to keep paid shoot photos all for themselves?

    u mean not even a single low resolution pic?
    头可断,血可流,倩女不可不追求 carpe diem,when in doubt, hoot first,apologise later:p GALLERY

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Why do photographers want to keep paid shoot photos all for themselves?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shiberty View Post
    Hmmm,

    this question has been bothering me for quite some time...


    I've done a few paid shoots, and most of the time, the photographers seem unwilling to share some of the better pictures..

    I understand that they have paid for the model's services so it's not like TFCD, but the thing I don't understand is - Even if you have paid the model, what harm is done by sharing?

    Afterall, it IS the model's pictures, wouldn't it be nice to share with her some of the work that you and her have achieved together?

    It's not like she's demanding you to upload every single photo into her laptop..

    If the photos aren't meant for some client or anything,

    And if you don't show the model the photos or put it up for public view (portfolio or something), then what are you going to do with it? Open the picture and stare at it everyday by yourself?

    I'm fairly new to this whole modelling thing, so anyone care to englighten me?

    Ok, this is completely wrong!

    The problem is you are charging for a service, so why should the photographer waive his right to charge for the service you require of him (giving photos). The harm done is you make money whilst he loses money.

    You pay for what you get you pay for nothing you get nothing. Simple.

    A photographer is a fool if he gives out free images after paying to capture them, it just doesnt make any sense! (Unless there is an extremely beneficial deal in which the photographer gains a huge amount of exposure)

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Why do photographers want to keep paid shoot photos all for themselves?

    Why bother demanding for one when the photographer's probably going to post his edited (and probably his most effort) work online for you to view? Unless you're requesting for a high resolution, non-watermarked shot, now for that, it's more about you having to pay him to shoot.
    tSkye shoots whatever comes tSkye's way... | 5D2, 1224, 16FE, 35L, 1.4xTC, 300L

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    Default Re: Why do photographers want to keep paid shoot photos all for themselves?

    what they do with the pictures is their business. that is why is a paid shoot. if they have to share the pictures with the model, might as well do TFCD.

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    Default Re: Why do photographers want to keep paid shoot photos all for themselves?

    if i pay u for model service..y can't u pay for my photography service..
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  7. #7

    Default Re: Why do photographers want to keep paid shoot photos all for themselves?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shiberty View Post
    Afterall, it IS the model's pictures, wouldn't it be nice to share with her some of the work that you and her have achieved together?


    It's not like she's demanding you to upload every single photo into her laptop..


    If the photos aren't meant for some client or anything,

    And if you don't show the model the photos or put it up for public view (portfolio or something), then what are you going to do with it? Open the picture and stare at it everyday by yourself?

    I'm fairly new to this whole modelling thing, so anyone care to englighten me?
    Firstly, it's NOT the model's photos. It's the photographer's....

    It's the discretion of the photographer to give.

    You want photos? Fine. Pay me like what others do.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Why do photographers want to keep paid shoot photos all for themselves?

    I guess we're just too lazy to post-process the so-so shots. But once in a while, when a shoot really stokes us, we do post them in our online galleries.

    In a way, we're doing the QC for you!

  9. #9

    Default Re: Why do photographers want to keep paid shoot photos all for themselves?

    Quote Originally Posted by eow View Post
    u mean not even a single low resolution pic?


    Yup, some photographers I've dealt with just go like "It's a paid shoot. I get to keep allllllll the photos"


    And I'm like "...Ok then?"

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    Default Re: Why do photographers want to keep paid shoot photos all for themselves?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shiberty View Post
    Yup, some photographers I've dealt with just go like "It's a paid shoot. I get to keep allllllll the photos"


    And I'm like "...Ok then?"
    And quite rightly!

  11. #11

    Default Re: Why do photographers want to keep paid shoot photos all for themselves?

    Quote Originally Posted by Klose View Post
    Firstly, it's NOT the model's photos. It's the photographer's....

    It's the discretion of the photographer to give.

    You want photos? Fine. Pay me like what others do.



    Chill! My mistake on that part, it is the photographer's photos because he took the photo and he also Paid to do it.




    But the way people explain it, it kinda comes across to me as this:


    "If I pay to take your photos, why would I be so stupid to give them back to you for free?"





    Then I wonder, why would a photographer want to do a paid shoot?

    The only reason I can think of is : He trusts that the model is experienced and that she can deliver the photos he wants.




    So isn't it about paying for the model's skills, rather than paying to keep the photos for yourself?




    Because I don't think people will pay to shoot any girl on the streets, unless the photographer believes that there is something special about that girl..

  12. #12

    Default Re: Why do photographers want to keep paid shoot photos all for themselves?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shiberty View Post
    Yup, some photographers I've dealt with just go like "It's a paid shoot. I get to keep allllllll the photos"


    And I'm like "...Ok then?"
    So? What are you trying to get here?

    I know it's the school holidays but that doesn't entitle you special privileges for photo shoots.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Why do photographers want to keep paid shoot photos all for themselves?

    Quote Originally Posted by Klose View Post
    So? What are you trying to get here?

    I know it's the school holidays but that doesn't entitle you special privileges for photo shoots.



    Why are you trying to be offensive here?


    I've mentioned that I'm fairly new to modelling, all I'm asking is for opinions to help me understand the situation better, I don't appreciate your sarcastic tone.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Why do photographers want to keep paid shoot photos all for themselves?

    This is the most bo liao thread of the week.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Why do photographers want to keep paid shoot photos all for themselves?

    Hmm ... I'm going to stick my neck out here, because there are a lot of sensitivities involved in these kind of things.

    To keep it very simple, they have absolutely no obligation to and no need to explain anything. That's the way it's always been in professional circles, and since even inexperienced newbies want to charge and shift themselves into the professional bracket, they have to know what are the professional standards and practises, and be willing to play by those rules if they want to demand payment for their services.

    The simple fact is: once money is involved, it's purely business and nothing personal, and should be kept that way.

    Quietly, I guess if the photog likes the model, or there is 'chemistry', many of them actually don't mind giving a few shots. When I was assisting Creative Directors in selecting and casting models, sometimes the top agencies like Carries or Mannequin would very very nicely request for a copy. In reality, there were times we were allowed to help, and most other times, we simply could not because our hands were tied by professional requirements. That's why the pros have something called 'tear-sheets'; if they want their photo bad enough, they literally have to tear a sheet out of a newspaper or magazine to get it.

    Lower Cat B and C models and talents with less exposure usually understand the nature of business, and they know that if they want to build a portfolio, they can't charge medelling fees, hence, the birth of TFPrints in the past.

    I suspect that somewhere along the way, there might have been instances where (amature but pro wannabies) models at paid shoots start to expect photos, and things escalate and models start to forget about professionalism entirely (standards and practises), and DEMAND photos as a norm. It usually starts off innocently when a model knows guys like her, and she turns her feminine wiles on them as she starts to get popular ... and starts to demand for things outside of the professional norm.

    Basically that belittles the professionalism of what is essentially a businees deal, and since then, photogs may have decided to protect their right a bit more? IIRC, this happened recently in a big way here in CS. Also, photographers here are always (it seems like it happens daily sometimes) being made use of, taken for a ride and have their kindness abused.

    I hope this gives you a little insight. There's no way I represent or speak on behalf of all photographers - only from my experiences when I was dealing with professional models on an almost daily basis in the past. In fact, my observatrions or opinions may be way off mark - members, please feel free to chime in.

    You could always negotiate a lower modelling fee in exchange for a few good photos prior to a paid shoot. These things are not cast in stone, and afterall, whatever you discuss and sign with the photographer is your own private agreement and no outsider has a right to say anything about it.
    Last edited by Dream Merchant; 28th November 2007 at 11:47 PM.

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    Default Re: Why do photographers want to keep paid shoot photos all for themselves?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shiberty View Post
    Chill! My mistake on that part, it is the photographer's photos because he took the photo and he also Paid to do it.




    But the way people explain it, it kinda comes across to me as this:


    "If I pay to take your photos, why would I be so stupid to give them back to you for free?"





    Then I wonder, why would a photographer want to do a paid shoot?

    The only reason I can think of is : He trusts that the model is experienced and that she can deliver the photos he wants.




    So isn't it about paying for the model's skills, rather than paying to keep the photos for yourself?




    Because I don't think people will pay to shoot any girl on the streets, unless the photographer believes that there is something special about that girl..
    you need to think some more. there are more reasons to why the people pay to take pictures.

    Also the way you put your question is as if the cameraman is REQUIRED to give you a copy of the pictures.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Why do photographers want to keep paid shoot photos all for themselves?

    The answer can be very simple.... The pictures just don't turn out well or up to his/her own expectations and that he/she don't want to post... Hence, may have deleted the whole series... Unless it is a TFCD, then the photographer "bo bian" is obliged to give the pictures...
    I am NOT a PROfessional photographer and photography is NOT my hobby

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    Default Re: Why do photographers want to keep paid shoot photos all for themselves?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shiberty View Post
    Chill! My mistake on that part, it is the photographer's photos because he took the photo and he also Paid to do it.




    But the way people explain it, it kinda comes across to me as this:


    "If I pay to take your photos, why would I be so stupid to give them back to you for free?"





    Then I wonder, why would a photographer want to do a paid shoot?

    The only reason I can think of is : He trusts that the model is experienced and that she can deliver the photos he wants.




    So isn't it about paying for the model's skills, rather than paying to keep the photos for yourself?




    Because I don't think people will pay to shoot any girl on the streets, unless the photographer believes that there is something special about that girl..
    Your right, we pay for the skill on the whole, we wont pay to shoot some new person of the street unless there is a some sort of situation. So we have no obligation whatsoever to give you the photos.

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    Default Re: Why do photographers want to keep paid shoot photos all for themselves?

    If you rephrase it as.... (I think you may mean this instead...)
    Does a photographer NEED to give you any of the pictures?
    a) No need, becoz he owns the rights to ALL the pictures.
    b) Becoz of a), he is also not obliged to give out any pictures.
    c) Even if he does give you a shot, he reserves the rights to it. i.e. you cannot sell 10 copies of it for 50 cents each.

    But if you ask WHY does he want to keep it all?
    Then the answer would vary from photographer to photographer. Although I imagine if you ask nicely, then you should at least get one or more shots. But still its up to the photographer.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Why do photographers want to keep paid shoot photos all for themselves?

    Quote Originally Posted by TMC View Post
    you need to think some more. there are more reasons to why the people pay to take pictures.

    Also the way you put your question is as if the cameraman is REQUIRED to give you a copy of the pictures.


    I need to think some more? I cannot think of anything else, that is why I am humbly asking opinions from photographers.


    Perhaps you can tell me what other reasons to why people pay to take pictures, then?



    The way I phrase the question comes from my limited understanding of the situation..

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