S9600

[ahchek]

Hallo,

Friend recommend me Fuji S9600 and wondering is it a good one? Called many trusted shops and they don't have stocks. They said it discontinued few months already and is pretty old one.. Is it true? or is it too popular?

Good day.

[Fotophilic]

yes it is a bit old liao. about 1 year liao.
popular or not i don't. but i used to have the 9500, which in my opinion is very good already.
9600 should be even better.

[felixcat8888]

Originally Posted by ahchek Hallo, Friend recommend me Fuji S9600 and wondering is it a good one? Called many trusted shops and they don't have stocks. They said it discontinued few months already and is pretty old one.. Is it true? or is it too popular? Good day.

Yes it is an old model. a little older than the S6500FD. But it is a good cam. Try calling Fujifil Singapore office to se if they still have old stock 63839933.

[ahchek]

Yes, aware have been some times in market. The new one is S8000, but the CCD size is small, also can't attach filters..

[felixcat8888]

Originally Posted by ahchek Yes, aware have been some times in market. The new one is S8000, but the CCD size is small, also can't attach filters..

Try calling the number I attached. Some thread a few days ago got one guy asking if buying the S6500FD from Fuji is orth, so no harm call that number to enquire. Maybe get cheaper price also

[euterpe]

I got mine a couple of months back, and I am very happy with it - it is a very good camera at least for my newbie hobbyist requirements. It is on the big side, so it is not something you can pop into your pocket or briefcase and go, but that is alright with me. I have an ultra-compact for those situations.

Understanding is that it had been discontinued cos I was asking around recently for another friend of mine who was interested.

[ahchek]

Originally Posted by felixcat8888 Try calling the number I attached. Some thread a few days ago got one guy asking if buying the S6500FD from Fuji is orth, so no harm call that number to enquire. Maybe get cheaper price also

Just called and they don't do retail sales..

[ahchek]

Seems S6500 also not quite bad.. Almost every specs are same, except for:-
S9600 - S6500
a. Pixels 9.1M - 6.3M
b. LCD 2" - 2.5"
c. Flash, S6500 is more powerful
d. S6500 have face detection, how about S9600??
e. Sensitivity 1600 - 3200
f. S9600 made in Japan, S6500 make in ???

So.. Still go for S9600 ??

[felixcat8888]

Originally Posted by ahchek Seems S6500 also not quite bad.. Almost every specs are same, except for:- S9600 - S6500 a. Pixels 9.1M - 6.3M b. LCD 2" - 2.5" c. Flash, S6500 is more powerful d. S6500 have face detection, how about S9600?? e. Sensitivity 1600 - 3200 f. S9600 made in Japan, S6500 make in ??? So.. Still go for S9600 ?? S6500FD good enough. hehe see my signature . .

S6500FD good enough. hehe see my signature . .
S6500FD MIC
9600 dun have FD

[vincecarlo]

Originally Posted by ahchek Hallo, Friend recommend me Fuji S9600 and wondering is it a good one? Called many trusted shops and they don't have stocks. They said it discontinued few months already and is pretty old one.. Is it true? or is it too popular? Good day.

I prefer the lightweight S6500fd that's feature packed all-in-1

[ziiz01]

Have you tried Mustafa Center?
I'm a S9600 user myself and I think this cam works well for me.
I find that the manual mode works best.I'm into post processing and HDR images.The Raw files makes a whole lot of different for a P/S.I love the size and look.People sure thing this cam is a dslr

Go and do your research well and decide on your needs to own any cam not just the S9600.

[kuryakin]

Yes, 9600 is sturdily-built & looks can pass off as a DSLR! Was deciding between this & 6500. I chose the 9600. That was more than a year ago. But its heavier & bulkier than a compact. Not a cam that you can pop into pocket/handbag. The wife also finds it troublesome.

[bruno84sg]

u bought your camera? Cuz I'm also interested in getting a prosumer camera, heard alot of gd comment on 9600 and 6500. I dunno whether shld get fuji S8000fd since both r discontinued. So I emailed SG fujifilm, they told me a new S-series model will be launched during Jan/Feb '08. It employs 2/3" Super CCD sensor, 11MP, wide angle, Image stabilzer, ISO3200 (11M), 14x Zoom and uses lithium-ion battery. Sounds great... U might wan to wait for tat? I'm waiting...

[felixcat8888]

Originally Posted by bruno84sg u bought your camera? Cuz I'm also interested in getting a prosumer camera, heard alot of gd comment on 9600 and 6500. I dunno whether shld get fuji S8000fd since both r discontinued. So I emailed SG fujifilm, they told me a new S-series model will be launched during Jan/Feb '08. It employs 2/3" Super CCD sensor, 11MP, wide angle, Image stabilzer, ISO3200 (11M), 14x Zoom and uses lithium-ion battery. Sounds great... U might wan to wait for tat? I'm waiting...

The rumoured S9700 or the Sxxx. mmm...

[Clockunder]

Originally Posted by bruno84sg u bought your camera? Cuz I'm also interested in getting a prosumer camera, heard alot of gd comment on 9600 and 6500. I dunno whether shld get fuji S8000fd since both r discontinued. So I emailed SG fujifilm, they told me a new S-series model will be launched during Jan/Feb '08. It employs 2/3" Super CCD sensor, 11MP, wide angle, Image stabilzer, ISO3200 (11M), 14x Zoom and uses lithium-ion battery. Sounds great... U might wan to wait for tat? I'm waiting...

Good :

1) Larger sensor and longer lens
Assuming that the 14x zoom starts at 28mm equivalent field of view on 35mm format (A big assumption here), then it would be 28-400mm.

On a 2/3” image sensor (approximately 4x crop factor), the actual focal length for the lens would have to be 7-98mm which would be the longest actual focal length for a prosumer camera. On the typical prosumer camera, the longest is usually about 72mm only. The long-ends of new super zooms such as Panasonic FZ18 and Olympus SP-550/560 UZ are only about 84mm which is about 500mm equivalent field of view on a tiny 1/2.5” image sensor. The longest I notice so far is the Panasonc FZ50 which is 88.8mm on a 1/1.8” image sensor, yielding 420mm equivalent field of view on 35mm format.

All things equal, longer actual focal length means better ability to resolve details of distant objects as the “demagnifcation” is smaller for longer actual focal length. For e.g. if an object is 10m way, then it would be demagnfied in the following scale to fit into the image sensor :

25mm is 25mm/10m = 25/10,000 = 1/400
100mm is 100mm/10m = 100/10,000 = 1/100

If the object is 20cmx20cm and shot at 25mm actual focal length from 10m away, then it would be 200/400 = 0.5mm x 0.5mm on the image sensor. At 0.5mm x 0.5mm, a lot of details would be lost. In comparison, it would be 200/100 = 2mm x 2mm on the image sensor and more details can be seen.

For the same field of view, a larger sensor would use a longer actual focal length and more details are captured. So the larger 2/3” would be better than the typical small 1/2.5” image sensor used by most other prosumer cameras such as the FZ18 and SP550/560-UZ. For e.g. for the same 400mm equivalent field of view, the actual focal length would be 98mm on a 2/3” senor but only 66.7mm on a 1/2.5” sensor. So, all other things equal and if the 2 cameras were to shoot for the same composition and perspective (i.e. exactly the same picture), then the former will have more details.

This is a longer lens than other prosumer cameras can be seen from the fact that if this 98mm lens is on the tiny 1/2.5” image used by other prosumer cameras, it would yield 588mm equivalent field of view on 35mm/135 format vs 504mm for Pana FZ18 and Oly SP560UZ. This means that this Fuji camera actually has a longer reach.

Also, for the same total pixels and sensor technology, a larger sensor also would have less noise.

So the 2/3” sensor would be superior to the 1/2.5” sensor size used in other prosumer cameras and is marginally bigger than the 1/1.6" and 1/1.7" used in the current S9600 and S6500fd.

The longer lens would be ideal for Sports which I find the 66.7mm lens (300mm equivalent on the S6500fd) is a little too short.

2) Larger sensor means a wider range for Depth of field play
A larger sensor means more room to use shallower DOF to isolate near distance subject as the actual focal length used is longer for the same composition . My previous prosumer camera Nikon 5700 used a 2/3” sensor and I had slightly more room (albeit not much more) to play with DOF than my current S6500fd. Also it is possible to have a nicer bokeh by standing further and use a longer actual focal length.

3) Wide end good for landscape
Wider angle lens enable the photographer to enhance the size diference between the foreground and background to make a more dramatic and interesting landscape picture. Those who shoot landscapes know that a good foreground and an interesting perspective are essential ingredients for a good landscape picture and they can be achieved only with a lens much wider than 35mm equivalent field of view on 35mm/135 format. Also some indoor shots and still/abstract life shots are interesting only if shot with wider than a 35mm equivalent field of view.

4) Super CCD

Needless to say, Super CCD image sensor is superior to the normal CCD sensors used not only in Fuji’s own recent S models such as S5700/5800/8000fd but also in prosumer cameras by other brands.

5) CCD shift Optical image stabiliser
Although the benefit is only about 2-3 stops, it is neverthless a plus point. (Many newbies don’t seem to know this and so they erroneously think that their blur picture problems would be solved completely if their cameras have image stabiliser).

Image stabiliser is less critical for prosumer cameras than DSLRs because the actual focal length used on prosumers are very much shorter than on DSLR. For the same picture taken (same composition and perspective), a 300mm on a full frame DSLR would be achieved with 200mm on a 1.5x crop factor Nikon DSLR and only 66.7mm on the S6500fd. So a prosumer camera is less susceptible to handshake blur than a DSLR.

For me, the guideline of 1/actual focal length applies to avoid handshake blur. When I shoot indoor fashion or events, I need to use a shutter speed faster than 1/125 to avoid motion blur already and so I don't need any image stabiliser even at full zoom 66.7mm for S6500fd.

On the wide end, actual focal length is only 6.2mm and I can shoot handheld at 1/8 or faster. Usually using ISO 200 or 400 would get the shutter speed up to 1/30 even for night street lighting shots.

For the things I shoot, only less than 5% of them fall within that 2-3 stops which an image stabiliser would be helpful. Beyond that 2-3 stops, a tripod is necessary regardless of with or without image stabiliser. In most situations, I need to use a high ISO anyway to get a fast enough shutter speed to freeze people or movement (such as wind blown). So good high ISO is much more important.

If the specifications you have posted is true, then the new Fuji S series is really something to look forward to.

Downsides :
1) Bigger size and heavier weight
With a larger sensor, it also means a larger image circle and the lens barrel has to be bigger. On top of that, a long 98mm would also mean much longer lens than the current 67mm used on S6500fd and S9600.

2) What is the max. aperture at the long end? As the F number is the diaphragm measured in terms of the focal length, it’s usually much smaller at the long focal length end than at the short end. Now the max. aperture on the S6500fd is already F/4.9 at max. focal length 66.7mm. So, what can we expect the max. aperture to be if it’s 98mm?

Thereotically, it the diaphragm is the same as the F/4.9 at 66.7mm (the current S6500fd size), then it would be F/7.2 at 98mm.

66.7/4.9 = 13.6

98/7.2= 13.6 or 98/13.6 = F/7.2

On one hand, an F/4.9 or F/5.6 at 98mm would mean a much bigger lens barrel than the current S6500fd and S9600. On the other, if it’s slower at F/6.4 or F/7.2, exposure would have to be at a much slower shutter speed at the long end when compared to other prosumer cameras for the same picture. For e.g. the FZ50’s max. aperture is F/3.7 at 88.8mm (420mm equivalent field of view), the FZ18’s max. aperture is F/4.2 at 84mm (504mm equivalent field of view) and the Olympus SP-550/560UZ is F/4.5.

3) More x zoom usually means less sharp lenses.
As the lens elements construction need to cater for both short as well as the long end of the zoom, the lens is usually less sharp with more x zoom. This is why most sharp lenses for DSLR are no more than 4-5 times zoom and the sharpest are the prime lenses (fixed focal length lens).

This is also why the images from the new 18x super zoom prosumer cameras are not sharp thoughout the range.

With 14x zoom, the rumoured Fuji S series cameras may suffer from sharpness issues at some focal lengths.


4) Higher pixel density with 11 MP on a 2/3” sensor
2/3” sensor (4x crop factor) is only 26% bigger in size than the 1/1.7” (4.5x crop factor) used by S6500fd but the no. of pixels is increased by 80% from 6.1MP to 11MP.

Compared to the 1/1.6” sensor on S9600, 2/3” would be about 16% bigger but the 11MP is about 20% more than 9MP.

So unless Fuji’s CCD sensor technology and noise reduction have improved much further, there is going to be more noise than the S6500fd and about the same as or marginally more than the S9600.

But most consumers are ignorant of this and therefore want higher no. of pixels. For me, based on current sensor technology, only 8MP on a 2/3” sensor would be ideal as this would be about the same pixel density as the S6500fd and probably give even better noise performance than the S6500fd assuming there is some minor technological improvement since S6500fd. Then it would be quite ok to use ISO 800 sometimes to get a faster enough shutter speed.

5) Possibly lower continuous shooting frame rate with more pixels
The 6.1MP S6500fd has 2.3 fps continuous shooting mode while most other prosumers cameras have only 1-2 fps. The 9MP Fuji S9600 has a lower fps than the S6500fd. With higher pixels, the continuous shooting speed tends to be lowered unless the camera’s processor is very much faster. This can be seen in the new models of Fuji S5700/5800/8000fd, Oly SP550/560UZ, Pana FZ18 and Canon S5 IS etc. which all have very slow fps in continuous shooting mode. For e.g. the Canon S5 IS has a lower fps than its predecessor the S3 IS because the S5 has a higher pixel count.

If the new Fuji has 11MP, then we can expect the fps to suffer, making it less suitable for fast action Sports shooting. One of the key factors I chose the S6500fd over the S9600 is its faster fps because I shoot fast action sports like wakeboard, Rugby etc.


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[Clockunder]

Then finally, there is an issue of “Price”. With such specifications above and if the lens is pretty sharp througout its range, the camera would probably be retailed at $800-$1,000, a price at which a die-hard prosumer camera fan like me would also have to think twice very hard before jumping in. Many newbies are already jumping straight to entry level DSLRs which are priced at $900-$1,200 for body + kit lens because they assume that a DSLR is like a Point and Shoot camera where 1 lens is enough and they have not realised they need to spend a lot more on additional lenses and other accessories for a DSLR system.

7mm-98mm on 2/3” sensor seems too good to be true. I suspect they might actually use the current crappy 18x 4.7-84mm zoom lens found on the S8000fd and then curtail its wide end to make it a 14x 6mm-84mm on a 2/3” sensor for a 24-336mm field of view on 35mm format. This would lower down the price and makes the camera more marketable. However, 24mm field of view on a prosumer camera is a break-through and it’s great for landscape and others. Moreover, 84mm on a 2/3” sensor is still an improvement over the current S6500fd and S9600.

I’m definitely looking forward to the new high-end S series from Fuji.

[bruno84sg]

wow~ u r great! U really have indept theory on optics! U have any book/website for this to recommend? I wan to read more abt it also. Anyway, the new series is the fuji man replied to my email de. I dun think he's up to cheat me ba. But if it's really range frm $800~1000, it might not be so attractive, ppl might juz wan to get entry-level DSLR straight with juz 1 len sufficient for them as wat u said.

[liionel]

Originally Posted by ahchek Seems S6500 also not quite bad.. Almost every specs are same, except for:- S9600 - S6500 a. Pixels 9.1M - 6.3M b. LCD 2" - 2.5" c. Flash, S6500 is more powerful d. S6500 have face detection, how about S9600?? e. Sensitivity 1600 - 3200 f. S9600 made in Japan, S6500 make in ??? So.. Still go for S9600 ??

if u're interested, i'm selling my 6500fd at the B&S. Do feel free to pm me about it.

[mrhobbit]

hmmmmm in accordance with the above

i think the F value at the wide end wouldnt be too large a number, defeats the purpose, i think its quite impossible to shoot at nearly 100mm with f7.2, and you dont have the luxury of bumping iso, as the noise levels would be terrible.

IS may help, to a certain extent, at the best(unless you have surgeon like psycho motors or a tripod) you would be getting soft images. and focussing speed would be quite slow, so a combination of the time you have to hold for the focus to lock, and the time of shutter lag, its quite difficult,and thats for a overcast day, if it was lowlight.....have fun man...........

now the question about this camera is whether does it have a large LCD screen
a hotshoe flash(important IMO)
where the wide angle starts from
a BETTER EVF(PLEASE FUJI!!!!!!!)

and of course, whether noise control and colour rendition is better than the other prosumers(both of which coincidentally is the downfall of the pana FZ series,and the triumph of the fuji)


oh yes, price it below $800 PLEASE?
and please....i want AA's, cause.......lithium ions propiertary batts are for one device only...... please.....stick with the AA's!!!