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Thread: E3 or Nikon300

  1. #21

    Default Re: E3 or Nikon300

    Quote Originally Posted by chngpe01 View Post
    Yes that does not mean the camera cannot take the images. Ion ago ppl have been taking pictures at that speed and no issue. Suddenly with a sensor based image stabilization, some ppl claim only one type of camera can do low light photography. That's to me is rubbish.
    Chill down bro, is only a recommendation. Each and individual makers have their unique features, pros & cons. I dont see the reason to spark that gunpowder. U may be a pro brand N user which knows every in out of N camera ,but u might not know abt brand C brand P brand S or brand O features & ability & performances. Try to feed in as much info to the requestor rather than going into argument. I think this shd be the way. Different brand users shd actualy learn to respect each & other. I think this is how it shd be.

  2. #22

    Default Re: E3 or Nikon300

    Quote Originally Posted by chngpe01 View Post
    Yes that does not mean the camera cannot take the images. Ion ago ppl have been taking pictures at that speed and no issue. Suddenly with a sensor based image stabilization, some ppl claim only one type of camera can do low light photography. That's to me is rubbish.
    I forgot about this thread

    The point I should be clearer on is, "I can't". Maybe other people can handhold at 1/3 secs.... but sorry I can't.

    This is all based on PERSONAL experience. May differ for different people. Let me put it this way I used to own an s3pro, which is NIKON mount and a 12-24 lens. It is NOT easy to handhold that thing up to 1/3 secs. If I want to be safe I usually set around 1/15. When I have my E510 and 11-22mm, I can shoot at 1/3secs and correspondingly, I find it MUCH EASIER to shoot night scenes as I get less handshake without the need to push to high ISO.

    you see, there is basically 3 ways around low light photography, shutter speed, aperture, ISO. That's it. Assuming aperture is the same f2.8 for WA, a E3 allows me to shoot at 3-4 stops slower. So if I have a D300, I have to bump the ISO 3-4 stops higher....

    That is just the point I was trying to make which I feel is perfectly valid.

    ANOTHER IMPT thing about slow shutter speed is that it allows you to capture the sense of motion. At 1/2 shutter you can get pretty decent silky waterfall... The ability to shoot at 1/2 secs does not just help in low light. It offers you greater possiblities of looking at things DIFFERENTLY even in good light.

  3. #23
    Moderator chngpe01's Avatar
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    Default Re: E3 or Nikon300

    Quote Originally Posted by cater View Post
    Chill down bro, is only a recommendation. Each and individual makers have their unique features, pros & cons. I dont see the reason to spark that gunpowder. U may be a pro brand N user which knows every in out of N camera ,but u might not know abt brand C brand P brand S or brand O features & ability & performances. Try to feed in as much info to the requestor rather than going into argument. I think this shd be the way. Different brand users shd actualy learn to respect each & other. I think this is how it shd be.
    Giving suggestion is one thing but giving statement that does not makes sense is another. Please read carefully what was written here that I am disputing. And this is nonsense, it is not only confined to D300 in fact any decent DSLR or SLR can shoot at that condition IS or not. I suggest you read the entire thread and understand before giving me any condescending remarks. This is the point of contention here:
    Quote Originally Posted by wind30 View Post
    At 2.8, ISO800, 1/3 shutter you can SHOOT a LOT of night scenes. This is something the D300 CANNOT do.
    To wind30, this is not that point I disagree. It is the statement above which you made is deceiving, period. And please spare me the lecture on exposure, speed etc

    Quote Originally Posted by wind30 View Post
    I forgot about this thread

    The point I should be clearer on is, "I can't". Maybe other people can handhold at 1/3 secs.... but sorry I can't.

    This is all based on PERSONAL experience. May differ for different people. Let me put it this way I used to own an s3pro, which is NIKON mount and a 12-24 lens. It is NOT easy to handhold that thing up to 1/3 secs. If I want to be safe I usually set around 1/15. When I have my E510 and 11-22mm, I can shoot at 1/3secs and correspondingly, I find it MUCH EASIER to shoot night scenes as I get less handshake without the need to push to high ISO.

    you see, there is basically 3 ways around low light photography, shutter speed, aperture, ISO. That's it. Assuming aperture is the same f2.8 for WA, a E3 allows me to shoot at 3-4 stops slower. So if I have a D300, I have to bump the ISO 3-4 stops higher....

    That is just the point I was trying to make which I feel is perfectly valid.

    ANOTHER IMPT thing about slow shutter speed is that it allows you to capture the sense of motion. At 1/2 shutter you can get pretty decent silky waterfall... The ability to shoot at 1/2 secs does not just help in low light. It offers you greater possiblities of looking at things DIFFERENTLY even in good light.
    Last edited by chngpe01; 28th January 2008 at 04:25 PM.

  4. #24

    Default Re: E3 or Nikon300

    Quote Originally Posted by achanth View Post
    I take lots of landscape photography with pictures of flowers and gardens, also night photography, especially with night lights, of buildings or scenery. Also considering for vacation travel as well.

    Kindly advise. I think the price of both is about the same.
    Hmm, my view if you will consider though i am a E-3 user myself..
    I shoot more on travel, street, events and general stuff...
    mainly my photos are pretty rubbish still learning to better my composition...

    I would choose Nikon D300 for its high iso capabilities. Was deciding between d200 and Oly E-510 initally

    but i chose to get a Oly E-3 due to the point i travel a lot to exotic places (overseas exercises and sorts) and in no specific order:

    1. Want to get a tested proven weatherproof setup. Dustproof, Splashproof, Rain proof, Waterfall proof. Built like a tank some might say.

    2. Remote Flash system for some bursts of Creativity now and then.. (Still werking on it)

    3. Minimal lens setup to cover my range of photog.. some sports maybe..
    -12-60mm SWD f2.8-f4 for general walkabout.
    50-200mm SWD f2.8-3.5 to pa jiao..
    30mm f1.4 prime for portraits and low light.
    +all splashproof less the 30mm

    http://www.olympus-esystem.com/dea/products/lens/12-60_28-40swd/


    4. SSWF proven to be the best dust buster so far.. been changing lens the proper way with body facing the floor since Sept 06 w E-510 and then to E-3 absolutely everywhere execept when there is a dust storm haha. So far no bunnies yet. Though i try to change indoor as much as possible but a few times i do change by the street side and all is well still

    5. In-Body IS. So all lens i use are stabilised... Though some may argue against IS. Its just good to know when ur hands are tired u can use IS to help u out a bit.

    6. Focal length (not crop) multiplier of 2. Easier to convert to 35mm eqv for dunno what also. but just easier to calculate..

    7. Built for 4/3 sensor specification lens from olympus for best quality.. though i dun pixel peep as much to discern the difference... Zuiko optics... expensive but worthwhile

    So all in all. Both cameras are good. Nikon d300 is weatherproof also but i'm not so convinced about total weather sealing on body and lens..

    Nikon also has more lens in buy and sell market than 4/3rds.. many reasons why..

    some of my considerations before going oly...
    Last edited by b-a-k; 28th January 2008 at 09:38 PM.

  5. #25

    Default Re: E3 or Nikon300

    At 2.8, ISO800, 1/3 shutter you can SHOOT a LOT of night scenes. This is something the D300 CANNOT do.

    Quote Originally Posted by chngpe01 View Post

    To wind30, this is not that point I disagree. It is the statement above which you made is deceiving, period. And please spare me the lecture on exposure, speed etc
    Ok maybe I should rephrase the wording a bit

    At 2.8, ISO800, 1/3 shutter you can SHOOT a LOT of night scenes. This is something the D300 CANNOT do for me.

    Happy? I thought the "for me" should be implied and pretty obvious as I don't speak for the world. What I was saying is that with stabilization, it has given me effectively 3 more stops of light. Without stabilization (my s3pro with 12-24 f4 lens) I can shoot SOME night scenes but not a LOT, but with stabilization and f2.8 lens I can shoot a LOT of night scenes. Notice I placed the emphasis on the word "LOT" in my original statement.

    I believe I have explained clearly enough. The lecture on exposure was at least ON TOPIC and perfectly relevant. better than a discussion on English.

    To Thread Starter: Did you consider the canon 5D + 24-105 F4 IS lens? I am just waiting to see if there will be a replacement for the 5D this coming PMA. I believe the canon 5D + 24-105 f4 lens is very good for travel. Single lens solution. wide enough at 24mm to shoot landscapes, and at 105mm f4 you can get pretty decent portraits. It comes with stabilization and very good high ISO capability. Good dynamic range (my E510 has poor dynamic range) The ONLY thing I don't like about the 5D is that it is pretty old and due for a replacement anytime soon and it lacks some useful (subjective) technologies like dust buster and live view.
    Last edited by wind30; 28th January 2008 at 10:03 PM.

  6. #26
    Senior Member dorts's Avatar
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    Default Re: E3 or Nikon300

    He is saying,

    At f/2.8, ISO 800, 1/3s, with IS, you have a better success rate of getting sharp images than at f/2.8, ISO 800, 1/3s, without IS.

    You can shoot at f/2.8, ISO 800, 1/3s, on a D300. It's just the matter of sharpness.

  7. #27
    Senior Member azul123's Avatar
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    Default Re: E3 or Nikon300

    Quote Originally Posted by dorts View Post
    He is saying,

    At f/2.8, ISO 800, 1/3s, with IS, you have a better success rate of getting sharp images than at f/2.8, ISO 800, 1/3s, without IS.

    You can shoot at f/2.8, ISO 800, 1/3s, on a D300. It's just the matter of sharpness.
    Ultimately it is the output that counts, right?

    So, if you are adding the IS feature of one camera, shouldn't you consider the high ISO feature of the other?

    so if one shoots at f/2.8, ISO 800, 1/3s, with IS with a DSLR that employs good IS then the comparable output of the other camera that employs good high ISO should also be used. Probably f/2.8, ISO 3200, 1/xxs? (didn't do the sums).

    Just my attempt at seeing things objectively, not trying to put down one brand against another, I don't care for that.

    ../azul123
    Last edited by azul123; 30th January 2008 at 07:39 AM.

  8. #28
    Senior Member azul123's Avatar
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    Default Re: E3 or Nikon300

    Quote Originally Posted by dorts View Post
    He is saying,

    At f/2.8, ISO 800, 1/3s, with IS, you have a better success rate of getting sharp images than at f/2.8, ISO 800, 1/3s, without IS.

    You can shoot at f/2.8, ISO 800, 1/3s, on a D300. It's just the matter of sharpness.
    Although it is correct statement, is it also correct to say that D300 has useable ISO3200 images that the E3 cannot compare with "period".

    ../azul123

  9. #29
    Moderator chngpe01's Avatar
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    Default Re: E3 or Nikon300

    Quote Originally Posted by wind30 View Post
    At 2.8, ISO800, 1/3 shutter you can SHOOT a LOT of night scenes. This is something the D300 CANNOT do.



    Ok maybe I should rephrase the wording a bit

    At 2.8, ISO800, 1/3 shutter you can SHOOT a LOT of night scenes. This is something the D300 CANNOT do for me.

    Happy? I thought the "for me" should be implied and pretty obvious as I don't speak for the world. What I was saying is that with stabilization, it has given me effectively 3 more stops of light. Without stabilization (my s3pro with 12-24 f4 lens) I can shoot SOME night scenes but not a LOT, but with stabilization and f2.8 lens I can shoot a LOT of night scenes. Notice I placed the emphasis on the word "LOT" in my original statement.

    I believe I have explained clearly enough. The lecture on exposure was at least ON TOPIC and perfectly relevant. better than a discussion on English.

    To Thread Starter: Did you consider the canon 5D + 24-105 F4 IS lens? I am just waiting to see if there will be a replacement for the 5D this coming PMA. I believe the canon 5D + 24-105 f4 lens is very good for travel. Single lens solution. wide enough at 24mm to shoot landscapes, and at 105mm f4 you can get pretty decent portraits. It comes with stabilization and very good high ISO capability. Good dynamic range (my E510 has poor dynamic range) The ONLY thing I don't like about the 5D is that it is pretty old and due for a replacement anytime soon and it lacks some useful (subjective) technologies like dust buster and live view.

    1. It is not a matter of English, what you said than and now is a world of difference. If without any correction from me, your statement then was deceiving.

    2. There is no need for sarcasm about "I believe I have explained clearly enough. The lecture on exposure was at least ON TOPIC and perfectly relevant. better than a discussion on English." me being off topic which wasn't in the case. Be civil and no need to resort to sarcasm and personal. I am issuing you a warning.
    Last edited by chngpe01; 30th January 2008 at 08:02 AM.

  10. #30

    Default Re: E3 or Nikon300

    Quote Originally Posted by azul123 View Post
    Ultimately it is the output that counts, right?

    So, if you are adding the IS feature of one camera, shouldn't you consider the high ISO feature of the other?

    so if one shoots at f/2.8, ISO 800, 1/3s, with IS with a DSLR that employs good IS then the comparable output of the other camera that employs good high ISO should also be used. Probably f/2.8, ISO 3200, 1/xxs? (didn't do the sums).

    Just my attempt at seeing things objectively, not trying to put down one brand against another, I don't care for that.

    ../azul123
    agreed. This was what I was pointing out in my earlier post, which chngpe01 ask me to spare him of. I said if you don't have IS, you can compensate by higher ISO but you have to shoot 3-4 stops higher. ISO800 is basically ISO6400. Seriously you think the D300 ISO6400 is comparable to E3 ISO 800? Or even is the D300 ISO3200 comparable to E3 ISO800?

  11. #31
    Senior Member azul123's Avatar
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    Default Re: E3 or Nikon300

    Quote Originally Posted by wind30 View Post
    agreed. This was what I was pointing out in my earlier post, which chngpe01 ask me to spare him of. I said if you don't have IS, you can compensate by higher ISO but you have to shoot 3-4 stops higher. ISO800 is basically ISO6400. Seriously you think the D300 ISO6400 is comparable to E3 ISO 800? Or even is the D300 ISO3200 comparable to E3 ISO800?
    Seriously can you shoot 1/3s with IS?

    ../azul123

  12. #32

    Default Re: E3 or Nikon300

    Quote Originally Posted by chngpe01 View Post
    1. It is not a matter of English, what you said than and now is a world of difference. If without any correction from me, your statement then was deceiving.

    2. There is no need for sarcasm about "I believe I have explained clearly enough. The lecture on exposure was at least ON TOPIC and perfectly relevant. better than a discussion on English." me being off topic which wasn't in the case. Be civil and no need to resort to sarcasm and personal. I am issuing you a warning.
    ????? seriously since when I am being personal and sarcastic about this? I think people can read this thread. I think I am the more calm guy here.

    Even after your hotly worded posts with words like "decieving" and "rubbish", I still believe my replies are VERY civil. There is a mild sarcasm but I don't think that is against the forum rules.

    And if you do read my post objectively, the "OFF topic" is with regards to the discussion of English, which is my post not yours..... Since you felt my post is deceiving I tried to explain what I was trying to say in my first post. I don't believe my english is perfect and neither is your and that is why the clarification.

    Frankly, I think everyone can read this thread. You took ONE sentence out of my original post and blew up on it. If you read my original post, it is very neutral and non-inflammatory as I tried my very best to be brand neutral as I know how sensitive people are in CS.

  13. #33

    Default Re: E3 or Nikon300

    Quote Originally Posted by azul123 View Post
    Seriously can you shoot 1/3s with IS?

    ../azul123
    Yes with the E510 11-22mm at 11mm (22mm eq) with ease.

  14. #34
    Moderator chngpe01's Avatar
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    Default Re: E3 or Nikon300

    Quote Originally Posted by wind30 View Post
    ????? seriously since when I am being personal and sarcastic about this? I think people can read this thread. I think I am the more calm guy here.

    Even after your hotly worded posts with words like "decieving" and "rubbish", I still believe my replies are VERY civil. There is a mild sarcasm but I don't think that is against the forum rules.

    And if you do read my post objectively, the "OFF topic" is with regards to the discussion of English, which is my post not yours..... Since you felt my post is deceiving I tried to explain what I was trying to say in my first post. I don't believe my english is perfect and neither is your and that is why the clarification.

    Frankly, I think everyone can read this thread. You took ONE sentence out of my original post and blew up on it. If you read my original post, it is very neutral and non-inflammatory as I tried my very best to be brand neutral as I know how sensitive people are in CS.

    "At 2.8, ISO800, 1/3 shutter you can SHOOT a LOT of night scenes. This is something the D300 CANNOT"

    It is a fact that this statement is deceiving and rubbish, which I am stating a fact nothing personal. Whereas sarcasm no matter how mild is aimed at a person ie. me. That is hitting below the belt. Anyway a warning is issued period.

  15. #35

    Default Re: E3 or Nikon300

    Quote Originally Posted by chngpe01 View Post
    "At 2.8, ISO800, 1/3 shutter you can SHOOT a LOT of night scenes. This is something the D300 CANNOT"

    It is a fact that this statement is deceiving and rubbish, which I am stating a fact nothing personal. Whereas sarcasm no matter how mild is aimed at a person ie. me. That is hitting below the belt. Anyway a warning is issued period.
    probably what the author of the statement wants to bring across is at the above mentioned settings, E3 has a higher chance of producing images which are free from handshakes blur...
    of course he might not have considered the fact that one can use a VR lens on the D300 or mount the D300 on a tripod....

    personnally i felt you have overly reacted on his statement, probably just a gentle clarification will do....

    trying to be a peace maker here... hee... no offence intended wor...
    Last edited by blurboiboi; 30th January 2008 at 08:58 AM.

  16. #36

    Default Re: E3 or Nikon300

    Quote Originally Posted by achanth View Post
    I take lots of landscape photography with pictures of flowers and gardens, also night photography, especially with night lights, of buildings or scenery. Also considering for vacation travel as well.
    To me, that means tripod. IS or high ISO is irrelevant. I wouldnt bring either camera for vacation travel as well, but then again it's just me...a D40 or E510 would be more appropriate...better still bring along a GRD

    Both are good cameras and you cant go wrong with either. What draws me to the D300 is the big screen display...important for me because of my reading glasses

  17. #37
    Senior Member azul123's Avatar
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    Default Re: E3 or Nikon300

    Quote Originally Posted by wind30 View Post
    Yes with the E510 11-22mm at 11mm (22mm eq) with ease.
    D3 ISO6400 on 24mm prime with ease.

    Anyway, I am still waiting for Nikon with Fuji sensor

    ../azul123

  18. #38

    Default Re: E3 or Nikon300

    Quote Originally Posted by chngpe01 View Post
    "At 2.8, ISO800, 1/3 shutter you can SHOOT a LOT of night scenes. This is something the D300 CANNOT"

    It is a fact that this statement is deceiving and rubbish, which I am stating a fact nothing personal. Whereas sarcasm no matter how mild is aimed at a person ie. me. That is hitting below the belt. Anyway a warning is issued period.
    ? That is not a fact, it is YOUR OPINON. As you can see in this thread, some other people don't read my statement they way you do. Anyway I do treat the clubsnap guildlines pretty seriously and the number one line is "be civil" which I have done. (seriously, look at what I have written, aren't you blowing this up a little?)

    Frankly, I think everyone can read what is going on in this thread and I believe I have stated my case clearly in previous posts.

  19. #39

    Default Re: E3 or Nikon300

    Quote Originally Posted by azul123 View Post
    D3 ISO6400 on 24mm prime with ease.

    Anyway, I am still waiting for Nikon with Fuji sensor

    ../azul123
    that is why I suggested the canon 5D with 24-105 f4 lens I am still waiting for nikon to launch a consumer FF, like canon 5D and a 24mm lens with VR.

  20. #40
    Senior Member azul123's Avatar
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    Default Re: E3 or Nikon300

    Quote Originally Posted by wind30 View Post
    that is why I suggested the canon 5D with 24-105 f4 lens I am still waiting for nikon to launch a consumer FF, like canon 5D and a 24mm lens with VR.
    Agree with you on 5D.

    ../azul123

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