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Thread: Where do PhDs go?

  1. #41
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    Default Re: Where do PhDs go?

    A little side track, a quick question for those from UK unis, US has Ivy, AU has Go8, does UK has something equivalent?

  2. #42

    Default Re: Where do PhDs go?

    The British very much favour their traditions. When it comes to tertiary education, the older the uni the more established is its academic tradition, the bigger and stronger its alumli, the more endowment fund it got for recruiting and retaining star professors. In many ways, this is a virtuous circle. In short, the older the better.

    If I remember correctly, there are 5 groups of universities in terms of age.

    (a) Old Universities (rough years)
    Oxford - 11XX
    Cambridge - 12XX

    (b) New Universities
    London - 18XX
    Durham - 17XX

    (c) 6 Red Bricks (Old manicipal colleges established in 18XX promoted to Uni status in early 1900)
    Birmingham
    Manchester
    Sheffield
    Leeds
    Liverpool
    Bristol

    (d) Modern universities (1960)
    Warwick
    Loughborough
    Leicester

    (e) Polytechnics converted to University (1980)
    Coventry Poly -> Coventry Uni
    Poly of Central London -> Westminster Uni
    Manchester Poly -> Manchester Metropolitan Uni
    Birmingham Poly -> Uni of Central England
    Liverpool Poly -> Liverpool John Moore Uni
    etc etc

    I think (a), (b), (c) are equivalent to the Ivy leaque (personal opinion only)

    P.S. The above are English Uni only.
    There are Old Uni in the British Isles as old as Oxford and Cambridge (1100-1200), or as London and Durham (1700-1800)
    - Edinbrough, St. Andews, Dundee (in Scotland)
    - Trinity College Dublin (now called Dublin Uni in Ireland).
    Last edited by palmtastic; 21st November 2007 at 05:37 PM.

  3. #43

    Default Re: Where do PhDs go?

    Quote Originally Posted by wind30 View Post
    oh... this is SOOO WRONG. I did not get a Phd, mainly because I find the local Phd not worth my time taking, although my MEng Supervisor kept asking me to take.

    I am a local grad too but I always feel slightly inferior to my overseas grad classmates. Just went for my classmate's wedding who graduated from MIT phd. On my table got TWO other people from MIT with phds....

    Well none of them are working in singapore.... why... nobody in singapore can pay them well enough compared to the jobs in US. Well, one of them is working in BP, another in a management consulting firm, and another in a internet startup. Ok so these are where 3 MIT phd grads went.
    No real research is being done here. M.Eng just wash test tubes. PhDs do power point presentation. The EAs do the real work... Just need to OT OT OT to try try try until they get something..
    Last edited by lsisaxon; 21st November 2007 at 05:27 PM.

  4. #44

    Default Re: Where do PhDs go?

    I am from one of the "C".

    I was also in a similar situation, I was offered a PhD scholarship with fully paid fees and living expenses. I rejected the offer due to limited career options in the future... On hindsight, If I have taken up the offer. I may be lecturing in some university by now....

  5. #45
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    Default Re: Where do PhDs go?

    Quote Originally Posted by palmtastic View Post
    The British very much favour their traditions. When it comes to tertiary education, the older the uni the more established is its academic tradition, the bigger and stronger its alumli, the more endowment fund it got for recruiting and retaining star professors. In many ways, this is a virtuous circle. In short, the older the better.

    If I remember correctly, there are 5 groups of universities in terms of age.

    (a) Old Universities (rough years)
    Oxford - 11XX
    Cambridge - 12XX

    (b) New Universities
    London - 18XX
    Durham - 17XX

    (c) 6 Red Bricks (Old manicipal colleges established in 18XX promoted to Uni status in early 1900)
    Birmingham
    Manchester
    Sheffield
    Leeds
    Liverpool
    Bristol

    (d) Modern universities (1960)
    Warwick
    Loughborough
    Leicester

    (e) Polytechnics converted to University (1980)
    Coventry Poly -> Coventry Uni
    Poly of Central London -> Westminster Uni
    Manchester Poly -> Manchester Metropolitan Uni
    Birmingham Poly -> Uni of Central England
    Liverpool Poly -> Liverpool John Moore Uni
    etc etc

    I think (a), (b), (c) are equivalent to the Ivy leaque (personal opinion only)

    P.S. The above are English Uni only.
    There are Old Uni in the British Isles as old as Oxford and Cambridge (1100-1200), or as London and Durham (1700-1800)
    - Edinbrough, St. Andews, Dundee (in Scotland)
    - Trinity College Dublin (now called Dublin Uni in Ireland).
    Thanks for the rundown. The viscious cycle thingy kind of reminded me of Singapore's political scene!!!

  6. #46
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    Default Re: Where do PhDs go?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shodan99 View Post
    I am from one of the "C".

    I was also in a similar situation, I was offered a PhD scholarship with fully paid fees and living expenses. I rejected the offer due to limited career options in the future... On hindsight, If I have taken up the offer. I may be lecturing in some university by now....
    I also from one of the "C". In my uni days, PhD was very precious and very rare and I did not have the finance and time to do it, nowadays I found that PhD are everywhere and so common.....

  7. #47

    Default Re: Where do PhDs go?

    Quote Originally Posted by regit View Post
    The viscious cycle thingy kind of reminded me of Singapore's political scene!!!
    My post stated "virtuous" circle.
    Do you also mean "virtuous" ?

  8. #48
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    Default Re: Where do PhDs go?

    Quote Originally Posted by lsisaxon View Post
    No real research is being done here. M.Eng just wash test tubes. PhDs do power point presentation. The EAs do the real work... Just need to OT OT OT to try try try until they get something..
    I don't think that's accurate. What's holding research back is for one scientifically incompetent administration trying to dictate researchers what to do, and for the other the same administration seeing it as their job to create red tape to tie down researchers in the office (leaving little time for doing research) rather than doing the administration part for them.

  9. #49
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    Default Re: Where do PhDs go?

    Quote Originally Posted by palmtastic View Post
    My post stated "virtuous" circle.
    Do you also mean "virtuous" ?
    Doh! The mind skipped a beat! I take back my comment

  10. #50

    Default Re: Where do PhDs go?

    Quote Originally Posted by rcourtney View Post
    Thank you for the advice. Consulting firms don't deem academic consultancy as "concrete" enough; neither do I have the means to gain them since I'm shut from entry-positions... it is a catch-22 situation, which makes it all that fustrating
    I think you are in a catch-22 situation only because you make yourself out to be, the truth is that you in a better position than most of us, and you are only starting out later, that's all.

    If you want a job fast, put your paper and past experience aside and start like any other graduate looking for a job. Think about how you can sell yourself, assuming that you had only a pass degree e.g. what makes you so special that someone should employ you over the next person. If you really think about it, you will realise that you might actually not be any better than the next person to be interviewed simply because what the employer is looking out for is not what may be prepared to offer.

    Employers are eager to take people who can make a difference to the work environment. For entry to mid management, people who are aggressive at work and do not rolling up their sleeves and getting their hands dirty are desired. Problems at work are often overcome not solely because of intelligence, they get done because of a special breed of people who are able to manage situation and more importantly people. Paper qualifications counts only for those who specialise e.g. people who sit in a cubicle crunching numbers and have little useful interaction with others.

    If you are serious about what you said, gaining experience and all the other stuff, I can submit your resume to the HR dept of the place I work at. My HP number is easy to find.

  11. #51

    Default Re: Where do PhDs go?

    Quote Originally Posted by rcourtney View Post
    I am into system science, applying concepts like fitness landscape, cybernetics and to a large extent, social systems theories onto socio-technical systems. I would best situate my studies onto the areas of change management, (socio-)knowledge discovery, IS policy implementation. While the Europeans seems to take these in a fair bit (hard vs soft), it is still quite raw elsewhere.

    Regarding doing a PhD and speaking from personal experience, do it by all means if the subject areas interest you and you like toying with concepts and theories. It is a satisfying experience though I am now questioning if it is a prospectful excercise
    buang, your stuff sounds really abstract to me...which means, to be frank, not really useful in singapore.

    - to be serious, your prospects for a related job is not high nor good. We are in for the hard sciences that can bring in money ( or be easily seen to bring in $$ ). Even so, singapore prefer phds from renowned unis..

    - where i work, ( and it's a very very large american MNC..), we take in phDs, but the degree is not awarded it's due recognition b/c the difference in pay is due to age difference. And the fact is, most of the jobs in Singapore do not require a phd, most things are simple and established, what differentiate one worker from another is not the education, but the way / effectiveness of getting things done.

    - a phD do not prepare u for a industrial route in most cases. That 4 years prepares you to do research, to train you to spot potential in unscouted areas.

    - my advise, apply with your undergrad. That way, you'll get a interview at least. Prepare a story on why u did a phd ( when they ask u what u have been doing previously) that sounds convicing, why you dun want it reflected... ( say thigns like, it's a personal journey,satisfaction blar blar, i'm sure writing many papers can help u come up with something good...)

    hope this helps.

  12. #52
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    Default Re: Where do PhDs go?

    Quote Originally Posted by LittleWolf View Post
    is for one scientifically incompetent administration trying to dictate researchers what to do,
    Couldn't agree more!!!! but then they will argue back with "help us to help you" thing... but then it contradicts what follows...
    Quote Originally Posted by LittleWolf View Post
    and for the other the same administration seeing it as their job to create red tape to tie down researchers in the office (leaving little time for doing research) rather than doing the administration part for them.

  13. #53

    Default Re: Where do PhDs go?

    u r looking in the wrong direction. if u offer solutions for IT, then u should try major vendors like AMAT, KLA, Chartered, petro chemicals and government bodies. throw ur vision overseas and u will reap better rewards most of the time. better still if u have a friend working in that company.

    try to market ur vision and what u can deliver for that company. these r the basic requirement for a Ph.D holder nowadays. otherwise tis only a paper qualitfication. remember, that paper can only help to open a door, how to step across that door will depend on urself.
    Last edited by Jeff; 6th December 2007 at 09:33 AM.

  14. #54

    Default Re: Where do PhDs go?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shodan99 View Post
    I am from one of the "C".

    I was also in a similar situation, I was offered a PhD scholarship with fully paid fees and living expenses. I rejected the offer due to limited career options in the future... On hindsight, If I have taken up the offer. I may be lecturing in some university by now....
    why is it not possible to hide your highest qualification.
    E.g. you are a PHD, but when applying job, say you are a bachelor degree lor.

  15. #55

    Default Re: Where do PhDs go?

    So TS, found your job already?

  16. #56
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    Default Re: Where do PhDs go?

    Don't waste your PHD, if consultancy companies aren't taking you, go check out defence science organization.
    www.dso.org.sg

    unless you are against being in the military industry.
    What about IDA?

    You really need to look at the gov related company. But your PHD must be from a recognize U I guess.

    Finally, if all else fail, set up your own company.
    Last edited by pcwe68; 6th December 2007 at 03:24 PM.

  17. #57

    Default Re: Where do PhDs go?

    Defence related projects usually narrow your scope and it will be difficult to move into industry in the future.

  18. #58

    Default Re: Where do PhDs go?

    Defence related projects usually narrow your scope and it will be difficult to move into industry in the future.

  19. #59

    Default Re: Where do PhDs go?

    There are many reasons why most employers will not hire a PHD at entry level. Some of these include:
    1. increase risk of job hoping quickly
    2. the culture of the team and company and if the PHD can blend in
    3. difficulties in managing the expectations of a PHD

    I am not saying that all PHDs may cause these management issues. However, from a management point of view, there is really no reason for this increased risk when there are likely to be other more suitable candidates. The exception would be when the PHD is able to impress hiring management (with the value he/she brings) to the extend that they are willing to take the risk (and potentially put their job and reputation on the line). Sadly, this is the real world and both people and companies are "selfish".

    On the brighter side, I am sure there will be jobs suitable for PHDs. And there will be companies who would be able to appreciate the value you can deliever.

  20. #60

    Default Re: Where do PhDs go?

    >>The exception would be when the PHD is able to impress hiring management (with the value he/she brings) to the extend that they are willing to take the risk (and potentially put their job and reputation on the line). <<

    do elaborate more. in what way does hiring a Ph.D holder "put their job and reputation on the line"? the impression part is critical though.

    I do agree with you one has to leverage the expectation of a Ph.D and there is bound to be some culture shock to absorb, both for the candidate and the company.

    However if one were to compare the cooporate culture of local and foreign bodies, the latter are definitely more open to possibilities. Then again one must be at the right place and the right time.

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