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Thread: How much is enough?

  1. #1

    Default How much is enough?

    Hi

    I have never really shot photos of models before. And I'm not even keen on doing people portraiture, tho i enjoy taking pics of my friends when they're usually in a pensive mood. So to my surprise, a friend of my friend has requested that I be her photog for a shoot on swimwear for some company. The request came abt partly because i'm a girl too, so she'd feel more comfortable if i'm the one taking the pics. I mentioned abt my inexperience with model shoots and of people portraiture for that matter. But she is/my friend is still keen to "hire" me as the day's photog. It's gonna be outdoor shoot, and they're willing to wait for a day that I'm free. FYI, I'm taking photography as a hobby, so it can only happen when i'm not so tied down by other matters. So yeah, we've agreed on the date that i can be free, and they're proposing to pay me $180, for 12x (8R) pics.

    My question is, is $180 enough to cover my costs? how much does a 8R pic cost to develop if I request for lab processing (as opposed to express service). Is it worth it? I'm not looking to make profit since it's providing me with a chance to practise on my still amateure-ish skills, but i'd at least like to cover my costs. So yeah.. what do u think?

    One more thing. Is there anything I should take note of, when shooting outdoors? Reflectors should be enough? BTW, I only like shooting under natural light.

    Thx much in advance. *muackz*
    Last edited by oranje17; 6th November 2007 at 01:13 AM.
    "I think, therefore I am." - Descartes
    http://flickr.com/oranje17

  2. #2

    Default Re: How much is enough?

    you should also factor in travel to the shooting location, travel to lab processing, parking, food, etc.

    I am not so sure about pricing of 8R in SG.

  3. #3

    Default Re: How much is enough?

    Without wanting to sound too harsh, I think anyone who doesn't even know the price of a S8R is far too inexperienced to be doing paid work. For a start, your friend shouldn't have really have asked you (obviously looking for a cheap option) and I think you should've politely told your friend that you don't have much experience shooting people and don't even really enjoy it.

    What happens if this all goes terribly wrong? Will your friend be understanding or will this affect your friendship? Is that risk worth it?

    As for lighting, natural lighting will be ok but you'll need to cancel if the light is bad. Does you friend know that? Who is going to hold the reflector? Don't forget to factor your assistant's payment into the total cost.

    $180 is too cheap for a commercial swimwear shoot but I guess it reflects your inexperience. My advice would still be for you to tell your friend that you are too inexperienced for this kind of commercial work and for your friend to find a professional. If she is worried about modelling for a male photographer, I don't think she should be modelling either.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: How much is enough?

    Quote Originally Posted by eastwest View Post
    Without wanting to sound too harsh, I think anyone who doesn't even know the price of a S8R is far too inexperienced to be doing paid work. For a start, your friend shouldn't have really have asked you (obviously looking for a cheap option) and I think you should've politely told your friend that you don't have much experience shooting people and don't even really enjoy it.

    What happens if this all goes terribly wrong? Will your friend be understanding or will this affect your friendship? Is that risk worth it?

    As for lighting, natural lighting will be ok but you'll need to cancel if the light is bad. Does you friend know that? Who is going to hold the reflector? Don't forget to factor your assistant's payment into the total cost.

    $180 is too cheap for a commercial swimwear shoot but I guess it reflects your inexperience. My advice would still be for you to tell your friend that you are too inexperienced for this kind of commercial work and for your friend to find a professional. If she is worried about modelling for a male photographer, I don't think she should be modelling either.
    Good comments.

  5. #5

    Default Re: How much is enough?

    Ask your friend to add another '0' to the fee and get someone experienced to do the job.

  6. #6

    Default Re: How much is enough?

    OK, the encouraging part is you seem to have a very graphic way of looking at things.

    The others have already warned about the biggest possible downside - you might loose a friend. But since you mentioned 3rd parties, and "some company", it could get a lot more complicated and messy. Are you sure you want to get dragged into this?

    If, regardless of what is said here, you still decide to go ahead, why don't you do it as a TFCD, and do a trial shoot with just one outfit first to see if you, your friend and the "some company" are comfortable with the results? Do it for the fun of it, and make it clear, in writing, that you will not be pressurised to deliver or be held liable for unsuitable shots (just in case the shots don't turn out well). Don't charge anything, but ask for all costs to be covered.

    As for the male or female photog part, most of the world's highest paid, best fashion, swimsuit and nude photographers are male and there are probably several reasons behind that. Your friend really needs to figure this one out if she wants to be in the swimsuit business.

    All the best for your shoot.

  7. #7

    Default Re: How much is enough?

    the cost of one S8R is 3 dollars here. at kimtian.

    to shoot nicely you are looking at assistants holding reflectors and off camera lighting to make a swimwear picture look nice and professional enough. if you dun have enough experience on such commerical shoot the advise is really to ask your friend to source for another photographers.
    random equipment.
    where are my primes?

  8. #8

    Default Re: How much is enough?

    much thx to all who replied this thread. after looking at the responses, i realised that i didn't write clearly enough to explain the friend's situation. she's an aspiring model who just wants to build her portfolio. the bikini pics are for her potential employer. so there's no commercial interest involved, at least not in that obvious sense anyway... i've taken the advice of "dream merchant" to do TFCD and yet, her response is still affimative. furthermore the money is just her token of appreciation for my efforts, since i'll be taking time off to take pics for her. nevertheless, i really appreciate all the comment here, and will try to do justic to whatever knowledge i've learned abt photography. i was just wondering abt the cost involved, but whatever she's giving should at least cover my costs, and a lil bit extra for a friend of mine who will be helping out with the assistant job during the shoot.

    so yeah... at the end of it all, we just wanna have fun, and at the same time appreciating each other's efforts. hope to post up positive pics of the shoot by the end of the month. cheers.
    Last edited by oranje17; 7th November 2007 at 09:44 PM.
    "I think, therefore I am." - Descartes
    http://flickr.com/oranje17

  9. #9

    Default Re: How much is enough?

    Hi oranje17

    Looking at some of the pictures in your flickr, you seem to have a great interest in photography. Since its purely for portfolio, do not feel burdened with a bag of worries. Go all out and have fun shooting. Go back, look at the pic, tweek them. Plan for another shoot and the third. Most importantly, plan before a shoot. Sometimes, you can get away without a reflector if you understand the direction of natural lighting and timing of the sun/clouds.

    And if your friend insist on paying you, make use of the money to get props (costumes/goggles/circular polarising filter, etc) and buy her meals/drinks.

    Have good fun in photography. And remember, whatever you do, bear in mind safety for your subject, the people around, your own equipment and yourself. And if you are taking pic of your subject swimming in the water, please do this in a common pool with rescue guard on duty.

  10. #10

    Default Re: How much is enough?

    Quote Originally Posted by contaxable View Post
    Hi oranje17

    Looking at some of the pictures in your flickr, you seem to have a great interest in photography. Since its purely for portfolio, do not feel burdened with a bag of worries. Go all out and have fun shooting. Go back, look at the pic, tweek them. Plan for another shoot and the third. Most importantly, plan before a shoot. Sometimes, you can get away without a reflector if you understand the direction of natural lighting and timing of the sun/clouds.

    And if your friend insist on paying you, make use of the money to get props (costumes/goggles/circular polarising filter, etc) and buy her meals/drinks.

    Have good fun in photography. And remember, whatever you do, bear in mind safety for your subject, the people around, your own equipment and yourself. And if you are taking pic of your subject swimming in the water, please do this in a common pool with rescue guard on duty.
    Totally agreed with you.... I believed the fee should not be the first consideration for inexperienced photographers. The experience gained will definitely offset $$$ value. Enjoy yourself with the shoot... take it as a learning lesson rather than a money making session...

  11. #11
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    Default Re: How much is enough?

    Having seen your photos, I'm sure you'll do well in your TFCD. Go ahead and shoot and have F U N !

  12. #12

    Default Re: How much is enough?

    Quote Originally Posted by contaxable View Post
    Hi oranje17

    Looking at some of the pictures in your flickr, you seem to have a great interest in photography. Since its purely for portfolio, do not feel burdened with a bag of worries. Go all out and have fun shooting. Go back, look at the pic, tweek them. Plan for another shoot and the third. Most importantly, plan before a shoot. Sometimes, you can get away without a reflector if you understand the direction of natural lighting and timing of the sun/clouds.

    And if your friend insist on paying you, make use of the money to get props (costumes/goggles/circular polarising filter, etc) and buy her meals/drinks.

    Have good fun in photography. And remember, whatever you do, bear in mind safety for your subject, the people around, your own equipment and yourself. And if you are taking pic of your subject swimming in the water, please do this in a common pool with rescue guard on duty.

    Thank u! for the kind of advice that i was looking for. yeah... we'll try to enjoy the shoot. =] i love photography. but i'm always reluctant on venturing into som unknown waters, in this case, is "model" shoot. so thx for the encouragement cos it took away my bag of worries somewhat. *hugz*
    "I think, therefore I am." - Descartes
    http://flickr.com/oranje17

  13. #13

    Default Re: How much is enough?

    Quote Originally Posted by martinchatswood View Post
    Totally agreed with you.... I believed the fee should not be the first consideration for inexperienced photographers. The experience gained will definitely offset $$$ value. Enjoy yourself with the shoot... take it as a learning lesson rather than a money making session...
    yes, i'll keep that in mind. thx for the advice ^^
    "I think, therefore I am." - Descartes
    http://flickr.com/oranje17

  14. #14

    Default Re: How much is enough?

    Quote Originally Posted by syl View Post
    Having seen your photos, I'm sure you'll do well in your TFCD. Go ahead and shoot and have F U N !
    okayyyy! =] happy to hear such a positive comment. will do my best. ^^
    "I think, therefore I am." - Descartes
    http://flickr.com/oranje17

  15. #15

    Default Re: How much is enough?

    I think you have wonderful potential after looking at your flickr album. I say go for it.

    Since you have mentioned you are not in this to make money and you are just wondering if you are able to cover the cost of the development of the S8R photos, why not just take that out of the equation by asking your friend to do the development herself?

  16. #16
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    Default Re: How much is enough?

    you could give your friend the bill for the development of photos.

    frankly, i don't agree with comments like "you shouldn't be doing this because you don't know how much something costs..."

    so i'm a pro 'cos i know a 1DsM2 is $16k RRP? i've done paid jobs for choirs and rock gigs without knowing how much a 5R print and folder would cost, and they're all very happy with the results (i think...haha)

    have fun, do what you think is right, cos you're the one that gets to sleep at night...
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  17. #17

    Default Re: How much is enough?

    Quote Originally Posted by oranje17 View Post
    Hi

    One more thing. Is there anything I should take note of, when shooting outdoors? Reflectors should be enough? BTW, I only like shooting under natural light.

    Thx much in advance. *muackz*

    Instead of reflectors, try mounting your speedlite onto your camera and shoot during the magic hours ala Swimsuit Illustrated

  18. #18
    Senior Member jOhO's Avatar
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    Default Re: How much is enough?

    decision to shoot paid or not it up to you and you have received quite a lot of advice already.

    no one seemed to answer what an S8R print costs so: I get them for $2 per piece at KT Colour centre at hong lim complex. i dunno if u need to mention that you are a clubsnapper or not, no harm if you do i suppose.

    as for your other material costs like transport, meals, expendables, you should be able to figure that out yourself.

    time can also be a cost, which i assume you don't mind giving out for free for this case. up to you for this.

    ur last question on shooting outdoors and reflectors, if u want to use reflectors, then u need someone who knows how to hold one.

    if you don't wanna use reflectors, than u have to be good at seeing light, and using that to advantages for your portraits. in a very obvious example, you probably won't want to put her face in the shadows and her legs in the sun, for instance.

    a good guideline in portrait is that usually the face is the point of attention. outdoors, the light is usually overhead, and the face isn't the one that gets the most light sometimes. tops of shoulders, arms and hands can seem brighter and distracting from the face, even legs in sitting/lying down positions, with large amounts of skin shooting bikini, there's white everywhere.

    a good suggestion it to shoot under diffused light - natural sunlight, but not from the sky. could be streaming in from the side under trees, at windows, corridors, alleys. how that would tie in with a bikini shoot you'll have to figure out. like i'm not sure how a bikini model would look in a chinatown back alley......

    these points (and alot more) are guidelines. feel free to break rules if you're adventurous enuff.

    u have one image (that i found) on your flickr website of a girl. not sure if it's intended but her face is darker than the rest of her. this is one example of what i described above. but like i said, if intended then cool. i won't comment if i think it's a nice shot since u didn't ask for it nor post it here for all to see.

    hmm i just wanted to tell u S8R costs 2 bux and look how much i went on....

  19. #19
    Senior Member jOhO's Avatar
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    Default Re: How much is enough?

    decision to shoot paid or not it up to you and you have received quite a lot of advice already.

    no one seemed to answer what an S8R print costs so: I get them for $2 per piece at KT Colour centre at hong lim complex. i dunno if u need to mention that you are a clubsnapper or not, no harm if you do i suppose.

    as for your other material costs like transport, meals, expendables, you should be able to figure that out yourself.

    time can also be a cost, which i assume you don't mind giving out for free for this case. up to you for this.

    ur last question on shooting outdoors and reflectors, if u want to use reflectors, then u need someone who knows how to hold one.

    if you don't wanna use reflectors, than u have to be good at seeing light, and using that to advantages for your portraits. in a very obvious example, you probably won't want to put her face in the shadows and her legs in the sun, for instance.

    a good guideline in portrait is that usually the face is the point of attention. outdoors, the light is usually overhead, and the face isn't the one that gets the most light sometimes. tops of shoulders, arms and hands can seem brighter and distracting from the face, even legs in sitting/lying down positions, with large amounts of skin shooting bikini, there's white everywhere.

    a good suggestion it to shoot under diffused light - natural sunlight, but not from the sky. could be streaming in from the side under trees, at windows, corridors, alleys. how that would tie in with a bikini shoot you'll have to figure out. like i'm not sure how a bikini model would look in a chinatown back alley......

    these points (and alot more) are guidelines. feel free to break rules if you're adventurous enuff.

    u have one image (that i found) on your flickr website of a girl. not sure if it's intended but her face is darker than the rest of her. this is one example of what i described above. but like i said, if intended then cool. i won't comment if i think it's a nice shot since u didn't ask for it nor post it here for all to see.

    hmm i just wanted to tell u S8R costs 2 bux and look how much more i went on....

  20. #20
    Senior Member jOhO's Avatar
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    Default Re: How much is enough?

    decision to shoot paid or not it up to you and you have received quite a lot of advice already.

    no one seemed to answer what an S8R print costs so: I get them for $2 per piece at KT Colour centre at hong lim complex. i dunno if u need to mention that you are a clubsnapper or not, no harm if you do i suppose.

    as for your other material costs like transport, meals, expendables, you should be able to figure that out yourself.

    time can also be a cost, which i assume you don't mind giving out for free for this case. up to you for this.

    ur last question on shooting outdoors and reflectors, if u want to use reflectors, then u need someone who knows how to hold one.

    if you don't wanna use reflectors, than u have to be good at seeing light, and using that to advantages for your portraits. in a very obvious example, you probably won't want to put her face in the shadows and her legs in the sun, for instance.

    a good guideline in portrait is that usually the face is the point of attention. outdoors, the light is usually overhead, and the face isn't the one that gets the most light sometimes. tops of shoulders, arms and hands can seem brighter and distracting from the face, even legs in sitting/lying down positions, with large amounts of skin shooting bikini, there's white everywhere.

    a good suggestion it to shoot under diffused light - natural sunlight, but not from the sky. could be streaming in from the side under trees, at windows, corridors, alleys. how that would tie in with a bikini shoot you'll have to figure out. like i'm not sure how a bikini model would look in a chinatown back alley......

    these points (and alot more) are guidelines. feel free to break rules if you're adventurous enuff.

    u have one image (that i found) on your flickr website of a girl. not sure if it's intended but her face is darker than the rest of her. this is one example of what i described above. but like i said, if intended then cool. i won't comment if i think it's a nice shot since u didn't ask for it nor post it here for all to see.

    hmm i just wanted to tell u S8R costs 2 bux and look how much more i went on....

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