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Thread: Photos for TFCD - how many to give?

  1. #1

    Default Photos for TFCD - how many to give?

    Hi

    I recently photographed models for a TFCD shoot. I also had a stylist who I paid a token fee.

    My question is how many photos should I give the model?

    And... would it be "spoil market" to give the stylist some photos as well? Coz some photogs have told me it's not professional to give free photos if the person is paid. But I was thinking since she gave me a big discount and did a good job, then why not... but I just thought I'd check how ethical it is first.

  2. #2
    Moderator catchlights's Avatar
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    Default Re: Photos for TFCD - how many to give?

    just honor what you have promised, even it is not in your favor, this is call professional.

    if you can't deliver, don't anyhow make promises, this is call ethic.
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    Senior Member Cheesecake's Avatar
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    Default Re: Photos for TFCD - how many to give?

    Quote Originally Posted by catchlights View Post
    just honor what you have promised, even it is not in your favor, this is call professional.

    if you can't deliver, don't anyhow make promises, this is call ethic.
    couldn't agree more.
    You'll Never Walk Alone! - i have the best job in the world!

  4. #4

    Default Re: Photos for TFCD - how many to give?

    Erm, I did not promise anything specific coz I wanted to be flexible. I only promised I will give the models their photos since that's what TFCD is about. But I'm just not sure how many to give.

    As for the stylist, he just said he'd like some, if possible. No promises were given here coz it was paid (albeit just token). I'm just wondering what the standard practice might be, if any.

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    Senior Member Virgo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Photos for TFCD - how many to give?

    Quote Originally Posted by juliet View Post
    Erm, I did not promise anything specific coz I wanted to be flexible. I only promised I will give the models their photos since that's what TFCD is about. But I'm just not sure how many to give.

    As for the stylist, he just said he'd like some, if possible. No promises were given here coz it was paid (albeit just token). I'm just wondering what the standard practice might be, if any.
    For the model, I would suggest you discuss with him/her about the number of photos that both of you are comfortable with. As what catchlights has mentioned, don't over promise.

    For the stylist, it depends on you, since you have already paid him. So it is still a-OK if you don't give any photos to him. If you ask me, I'll usually give a few which I think is best of the best!
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    Moderator catchlights's Avatar
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    Default Re: Photos for TFCD - how many to give?

    there won't be any fixed amount of how many photos you suppose to give if don't have mutual agreement before the shoot.

    If both you work on a different set up, pick the best few from each set up is fine, you sure don't want the model to show the worst or wrong photos in her portfolio.

    same principle apply to your stylist, select the best few of your works which able to demonstrate his effort, give it to him as compliment and for PR.
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  7. #7

    Default Re: Photos for TFCD - how many to give?

    Personally, I would sell the idea that quality is always better than quantity (OOPS!), but I think many models would probably prefer tons of ok shots rather than 1 excellent one.

    It's macam like looking at themselves in a mirror - they want to see more of themselves at different angles etc without realising that by showing just two shots of the same outfit/style, they are possibly cutting down the impact by 50% or more.

    Have a look at Razin's threads in Portraits and Poses. I'm sure he takes tons of GREAT shots per session, but he understands the mechanics of making a BIG impact, and is disciplined enough to post only ONE photo.

    As for the stylist, since money has changed hands but it was only a token fee (aka - kopi and prata money), hmm ... perhaps you could make it mutually beneficial - give 1-2 great shots per model/style, but have your name/contact put tastefully/discretely in one corner of the photo?

    At the end of the day, making it a win-win situation will get you more friends and widen your network. Note that I did not mention 'happy', because no matter what you try to do sometimes, you can't always make everyone happy, so balance the compromise.

    CHEERS!
    Last edited by Dream Merchant; 5th November 2007 at 07:18 PM.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Photos for TFCD - how many to give?

    Thanks for the replies!

  9. #9
    vince123123
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    Default Re: Photos for TFCD - how many to give?

    I agree with your first statement - and am always perplexed why they prefer tons of okay shots than 5 really good ones.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dream Merchant View Post
    Personally, I would sell the idea that quality is always better than quantity (OOPS!), but I think many models would probably prefer tons of ok shots rather than 1 excellent one.

    It's macam like looking at themselves in a mirror - they want to see more of themselves at different angles etc without realising that by showing just two shots of the same outfit/style, they are possibly cutting down the impact by 50% or more.

    Have a look at Razin's threads in Portraits and Poses. I'm sure he takes tons of GREAT shots per session, but he understands the mechanics of making a BIG impact, and is disciplined enough to post only ONE photo.

    As for the stylist, since money has changed hands but it was only a token fee (aka - kopi and prata money), hmm ... perhaps you could make it mutually beneficial - give 1-2 great shots per model/style, but have your name/contact put tastefully/discretely in one corner of the photo?

    At the end of the day, making it a win-win situation will get you more friends and widen your network. Note that I did not mention 'happy', because no matter what you try to do sometimes, you can't always make everyone happy, so balance the compromise.

    CHEERS!

  10. #10
    Senior Member Virgo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Photos for TFCD - how many to give?

    Quote Originally Posted by vince123123 View Post
    I agree with your first statement - and am always perplexed why they prefer tons of okay shots than 5 really good ones.
    Yeah...I think this is the mentality of most Singaporeans. Looking for quantity and not quality is the norm here. That is why photography business is Singapore is so difficult. The inculcation of Singaporeans to pay more for quanlity shots rather than quantity shots is what we need to do here IMO.

    Most of the time, when I quote a potential client (mostly wedding couples), the first question they ask is: how many photos can you provide? I feel really sad in hearing this question every time. This means that either my skills are not there, or their understanding of photography is not there.

    What say all of you here?
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  11. #11

    Default Re: Photos for TFCD - how many to give?

    Quote Originally Posted by vince123123 View Post
    I agree with your first statement - and am always perplexed why they prefer tons of okay shots than 5 really good ones.
    If one looks at this from a third party's POV, let's say a photographer took about 300 images (not that much, is it?) in a session, how many do you think should be those "really good ones" and how many do you think are good enough to be keepers?

    IMO, if one can only get 5 images that are good enough "to reward" the model, then i think the photographer is not doing a good job .....
    always the Light, .... always.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Photos for TFCD - how many to give?

    Personally, the stylist should not be given, even one, photo because he/she is paid. (since you did not promise to give him any) And also as what the rest had mentioned, give only the good ones to the model. You see, you'll "spoil the market" if you give even one photo to the stylist. Because by "pay and give", this stylist will, in future, give preference to those kind of "dumb" TFCD photographer who is willing to pay the stylist and yet willingly giving away photos. However, you may want to negotiate with the stylist on a deal, for example give him a token $$$ + 5 photos or whatever then deliver what you committed. Just don't make yourself look "cheap" by paying and still giving everything away free. This might kill off TFCD in future as everybody (models and stylists) wants to be "paid with photo attached". Dun flame me, but this is happening, as I observe.
    Last edited by canonikon; 2nd December 2007 at 09:44 AM.

  13. #13
    Moderator catchlights's Avatar
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    Default Re: Photos for TFCD - how many to give?

    one photographer can shoot hundreds and hundreds of photos during a tfcd,
    can get hundreds of usable photos after throw away the bad one,
    but really good one are much lesser,
    and the favorite shots maybe three to five.

    so if you know you only can get three to five really really good shots from a tfcd session, why waste so much time produce the rest of few hundreds?? you can spend same amount of time or maybe lesser just to produce 50 shots, sure almost of them is usable and the good one.
    Shoot to Live, Live to Shoot
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  14. #14

    Default Re: Photos for TFCD - how many to give?

    The funny things about the selection of "good ones" is so diverse between the photographer and the model .... sometimes when you chose a somewhat your "perfect" shot and gave to the model, and the reaction is ... "this one, heeeee not nice, i look so fat!"..... and then if she happened to see another one, which you were considering to del, then she said ... "yaaa... this one so nice, i like the wishing well behind me, so nice .......".....
    always the Light, .... always.

  15. #15
    Moderator catchlights's Avatar
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    Default Re: Photos for TFCD - how many to give?

    Quote Originally Posted by Canonised View Post
    The funny things about the selection of "good ones" is so diverse between the photographer and the model .... sometimes when you chose a somewhat your "perfect" shot and gave to the model, and the reaction is ... "this one, heeeee not nice, i look so fat!"..... and then if she happened to see another one, which you were considering to del, then she said ... "yaaa... this one so nice, i like the wishing well behind me, so nice .......".....
    guess your model is the XMM type, she is looking for those photos for her friendster a/c.

    you should give those photos does not embarrasses yourself as a photographer to her.

    if she think you are no good for not give her a lot of photos, let her go and find whatever photographers she want.
    Shoot to Live, Live to Shoot
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    Default Re: Photos for TFCD - how many to give?

    Quote Originally Posted by Canonised View Post
    The funny things about the selection of "good ones" is so diverse between the photographer and the model .... sometimes when you chose a somewhat your "perfect" shot and gave to the model, and the reaction is ... "this one, heeeee not nice, i look so fat!"..... and then if she happened to see another one, which you were considering to del, then she said ... "yaaa... this one so nice, i like the wishing well behind me, so nice .......".....
    those are the one you use for your avatar.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Photos for TFCD - how many to give?

    Quote Originally Posted by juliet View Post
    Hi

    I recently photographed models for a TFCD shoot. I also had a stylist who I paid a token fee.

    My question is how many photos should I give the model?

    And... would it be "spoil market" to give the stylist some photos as well? Coz some photogs have told me it's not professional to give free photos if the person is paid. But I was thinking since she gave me a big discount and did a good job, then why not... but I just thought I'd check how ethical it is first.
    Generally, as a rule of thumb, since your work in a way represent you, for a TFCD shoot, you only give those that you think will do it justice. In other words, if you are only happy with 1 shot, then 1 shot is all the model gets. Or you can give everything, the good hte bad and the ugly with a written agreement that she can only display and/or publish any images only after she got your consent. I normally work on the former, but flexible with the latter if I have worked with a model a few times and know her well enough. The reason is you don't want to have a less than satisfactory shot floating around and then upon inquiry, it is known that YOU took it.

    As for the stylist, its really up to you since there is no obligations. If I were you, I would add a tiny credit on the edge that says "photography by -your name here-" on a "representative shot", meaning that one shot that REPRESENTS the session and give it to the stylist. This way, whenever he/she promotes herself, you are also promoted to her prospective clients


    Hope that helps.

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