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Thread: Freelance Model Thoughts on Photography

  1. #41
    Moderator catchlights's Avatar
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    Default Re: Freelance Model Thoughts on Photography

    Quote Originally Posted by AverRal View Post
    They do, in fact there are many talented commercial photographers out there, but don't they feel limited by their client needs instead of theirs?
    professional photographers are paid to deliver results, not test test try try own idea on clients' expenses.
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  2. #42

    Default Re: Freelance Model Thoughts on Photography

    Quote Originally Posted by AverRal View Post
    Doesn't it defeat the purpose of photography for passion?
    Actually, many entrepreneurs are driven by passion. You got to have lots of it to walk away from a steady paying job and start your own business, slave from morning till night, even when you sleep you're thinking of your cashflow, no salary for two years or more, etc.

    If you're a wedding photographer, your passion is in making people look good in pictures, and the belief that you can give them something better than what's on the market, that you can make your clients happy. Because if you don't have this passion, you're going to be wondering why the hell are you slaving away night and day when you can go to some corporate job.

    In other words, the majority of entrepreneurs are not driven by thoughts of an IPO, of being bloody rich. Talk to them and you'll find out, it's passion that sustains them through the years.

    But that does not mean that they disregard the commercial realities. If your clients want angsty fine art photos, that's one thing. But if that's not what your market wants, then your passion may well be misplaced.

    The passion that is needed is the desire to make the client happy and improve his life in some way. That's different from the passion to create something you like, or something artistic.

  3. #43

    Default Re: Freelance Model Thoughts on Photography

    Quote Originally Posted by waileong View Post
    Actually, many entrepreneurs are driven by passion. You got to have lots of it to walk away from a steady paying job and start your own business, slave from morning till night, even when you sleep you're thinking of your cashflow, no salary for two years or more, etc.

    If you're a wedding photographer, your passion is in making people look good in pictures, and the belief that you can give them something better than what's on the market, that you can make your clients happy. Because if you don't have this passion, you're going to be wondering why the hell are you slaving away night and day when you can go to some corporate job.

    In other words, the majority of entrepreneurs are not driven by thoughts of an IPO, of being bloody rich. Talk to them and you'll find out, it's passion that sustains them through the years.

    But that does not mean that they disregard the commercial realities. If your clients want angsty fine art photos, that's one thing. But if that's not what your market wants, then your passion may well be misplaced.

    The passion that is needed is the desire to make the client happy and improve his life in some way. That's different from the passion to create something you like, or something artistic.
    that's an excellent point

  4. #44
    Moderator catchlights's Avatar
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    Default Re: Freelance Model Thoughts on Photography

    Quote Originally Posted by waileong View Post
    Actually, many entrepreneurs are driven by passion. You got to have lots of it to walk away from a steady paying job and start your own business, slave from morning till night, even when you sleep you're thinking of your cashflow, no salary for two years or more, etc.

    If you're a wedding photographer, your passion is in making people look good in pictures, and the belief that you can give them something better than what's on the market, that you can make your clients happy. Because if you don't have this passion, you're going to be wondering why the hell are you slaving away night and day when you can go to some corporate job.

    In other words, the majority of entrepreneurs are not driven by thoughts of an IPO, of being bloody rich. Talk to them and you'll find out, it's passion that sustains them through the years.

    But that does not mean that they disregard the commercial realities. If your clients want angsty fine art photos, that's one thing. But if that's not what your market wants, then your passion may well be misplaced.

    The passion that is needed is the desire to make the client happy and improve his life in some way. That's different from the passion to create something you like, or something artistic.
    good point.

    freedom, passion, creativity, these few words are so easily misunderstood and misused.
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  5. #45
    Senior Member jnet6's Avatar
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    Default Re: Freelance Model Thoughts on Photography

    Quote Originally Posted by jeanie View Post
    passion for $ lor.
    This part everybody need to have aleast 20% agreed.

  6. #46

    Default Re: Freelance Model Thoughts on Photography

    Quote Originally Posted by jnet6 View Post
    This part everybody need to have aleast 20% agreed.
    20% too low lah...

  7. #47

    Default Re: Freelance Model Thoughts on Photography

    Quote Originally Posted by waileong View Post
    Actually, many entrepreneurs are driven by passion. You got to have lots of it to walk away from a steady paying job and start your own business, slave from morning till night, even when you sleep you're thinking of your cashflow, no salary for two years or more, etc.

    If you're a wedding photographer, your passion is in making people look good in pictures, and the belief that you can give them something better than what's on the market, that you can make your clients happy. Because if you don't have this passion, you're going to be wondering why the hell are you slaving away night and day when you can go to some corporate job.

    In other words, the majority of entrepreneurs are not driven by thoughts of an IPO, of being bloody rich. Talk to them and you'll find out, it's passion that sustains them through the years.

    But that does not mean that they disregard the commercial realities. If your clients want angsty fine art photos, that's one thing. But if that's not what your market wants, then your passion may well be misplaced.

    The passion that is needed is the desire to make the client happy and improve his life in some way. That's different from the passion to create something you like, or something artistic.
    Spot on!

    Quote Originally Posted by Anjinnete Ross View Post
    All she wanted to do was to make photographs for herself which are not commercially motivated. Is that wrong? Does she have to give that up?

    If she has no clue how commercial photography works, would it not be nice in a community like this for you (I assume you are a commercial photographer - since you gave the impression that you do have some clue how commercial photography works) to try to share what she was misguided, as alleged by someone else?
    She's not wrong for having her own wants but her perception of commercial photography is warped.

    No, I belong to the group what TS has pointed out as Photographer C but friends are. They are motivated and driven, they have their own signature styles of shooting. However, TS has the skewed impression that they are not artsy and surrender themselves to the client. Of course the client has the final say, but it lies with the photographer's abilities to exercise the use of his/her creativity within the constraints and still deliver what the client wants. That's what makes them stand out. They have their own personal projects which they pursue to work out new techniques, presentations and ideas which they may apply to their commercial projects. So I don't see how commercial photography is no longer creative.

  8. #48

    Default Re: Freelance Model Thoughts on Photography

    Quote Originally Posted by Klose View Post
    but her perception of commercial photography is warped.

    However, TS has the skewed impression that they are not artsy and surrender themselves to the client. Of course the client has the final say, but it lies with the photographer's abilities to exercise the use of his/her creativity within the constraints and still deliver what the client wants. That's what makes them stand out. They have their own personal projects which they pursue to work out new techniques, presentations and ideas which they may apply to their commercial projects. So I don't see how commercial photography is no longer creative.
    Thanks!

    I do think that for a commercial project to succeed, there is usually some creative elements involved in it. The same applies to commercial photography. Hence, I wrote that there are commercial photographers who were/are very creative. But the direction of that creative energy is constrained and directed by one goal - profit. And I think that is why when one looks at the works of a photographer, he/she often has what is called "professional works" and "personal works". One was done with the aim of satisfying the client. The other was for oneself.

  9. #49

    Default Re: Freelance Model Thoughts on Photography

    Quote Originally Posted by garou12 View Post
    they've all learned to work within the box and scratch their creative needs in their own outside projects. Something you should do well to note and learn from instead of getting defensive with people here.
    Which is saying?

    That for the commercial photographer, he/she also has works done for him/herself. What you called " Scratch their creative needs in their own outside projects".

  10. #50

    Default Re: Freelance Model Thoughts on Photography

    Quote Originally Posted by Anjinnete Ross View Post
    Which is saying?

    That for the commercial photographer, he/she also has works done for him/herself. What you called " Scratch their creative needs in their own outside projects".
    since you already know that then why are you asking me to repeat myself?

  11. #51

    Default Re: Freelance Model Thoughts on Photography

    Quote Originally Posted by Deadpoet View Post
    READ MY POST. Don't read selectively. Then you might get it.
    No sir. I do not read selectively.

    Unfortunately, I still do not understand exactly your assertion.

  12. #52

    Default Re: Freelance Model Thoughts on Photography

    my suggestion to the TS is to assist in a commercial shoot and you will learn what the photographer has to go through to get the image done... provided the photographer lets the assistant in on the thought process and preproduction process... there are some who will...

    in a perfect world, we would love to shoot whatever we want and still earn a living from it... there are some who succeed, but usually they are not doing commercial work only... at the end of the day, commercial work means you take direction from your client in what they want... you can contribute, but they have the final say... usually to shoot what the photographer wants comes at the photographer's own expense at the photographer's own time, ie. not on a commercial job...

    maybe the misunderstanding comes about from the term "commercial"... not all professional photography jobs are "commercial" jobs... like weddings, events, editorials, photojournalists jobs, etc... compared to advertising, shooting for company annual reports, catalogs, etc. the photographer still works for clients/bosses but the degree of control is different... control also depends on reputation of the photographer...

  13. #53

    Default Re: Freelance Model Thoughts on Photography

    Quote Originally Posted by garou12 View Post
    since you already know that then why are you asking me to repeat myself?
    Because from what you wrote, you seem to be in agreement with Miss AverRal. That there is commercial photography which satisfies the client, and personal photography which is directed to oneself.

  14. #54

    Default Re: Freelance Model Thoughts on Photography

    Quote Originally Posted by Anjinnete Ross View Post
    Because from what you wrote, you seem to be in agreement with Miss AverRal. That there is commercial photography which satisfies the client, and personal photography which is directed to oneself.
    nope i didn't agree with her because if i did i'd have said so. I do think she's being alittle too idealistic. Consider this if you want an analogy to clarify things in your mind: Why did most of the great artists of their time (Van Gogh etc) die poor while someone like Picasso died rich?
    Last edited by garou12; 5th November 2007 at 01:18 PM.

  15. #55

    Default Re: Freelance Model Thoughts on Photography

    Quote Originally Posted by garou12 View Post
    nope i didn't agree with her because if i did i'd have said so. I do think she's being alittle too idealistic. Consider this if you want an analogy to clarify things in your mind: Why did most of the great artists of their time (Van Gogh etc) die poor while someone like Picasso died rich?
    If you did not agree with AverRal, then why did you write "work within the box and scratch their creative needs in their own outside projects"?

    What you wrote implies a constraint within the box (yes, and creativity is needed to work within the constraints of the box) and a different way of making photographs outside the box.

    I am not competent to comment on the financial status of those before me. Perhaps art historians can clarify. But I do not think Picasso catered to commercial needs when he exercised his creativity which led to cubism.

  16. #56

    Default Re: Freelance Model Thoughts on Photography

    Quote Originally Posted by Anjinnete Ross View Post
    If you did not agree with AverRal, then why did you write "work within the box and scratch their creative needs in their own outside projects"?

    What you wrote implies a constraint within the box (yes, and creativity is needed to work within the constraints of the box) and a different way of making photographs outside the box.

    I am not competent to comment on the financial status of those before me. Perhaps art historians can clarify. But I do not think Picasso catered to commercial needs when he exercised his creativity which led to cubism.
    Picasso knew how to sell himself and temper his work to the demand of market forces. That is why he didn't die penny less. Think about how that applies to TS. I wrote that because it seems that TS doesn't recongize the box nor does she want to work within it. Had i been agreeing with her i'd be saying to her what you want instead of working in the box.

  17. #57
    Moderator catchlights's Avatar
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    Default Re: Freelance Model Thoughts on Photography

    why are we still arguing about what commercial non commercial blar blar blar??

    maybe she already found the photographers she want to work with her together to create her "dream" project.

    let wait and see about her new works.

    and I believe it will be strictly non commercial type of images.
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  18. #58
    Senior Member Cheesecake's Avatar
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    Default Re: Freelance Model Thoughts on Photography

    Quote Originally Posted by garou12 View Post
    Picasso knew how to sell himself and temper his work to the demand of market forces. That is why he didn't die penny less. Think about how that applies to TS. I wrote that because it seems that TS doesn't recongize the box nor does she want to work within it. Had i been agreeing with her i'd be saying to her what you want instead of working in the box.
    who said PICASSO knew how to sell himself and paint what is in demand?

    pls get ur facts right.
    You'll Never Walk Alone! - i have the best job in the world!

  19. #59

    Default Re: Freelance Model Thoughts on Photography

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesecake View Post
    who said PICASSO knew how to sell himself and paint what is in demand?

    pls get ur facts right.
    by all means correct me if you want. He may have stuck to his own style but he knew how to sell his work to create demand for it. especially if you can show he died penny less to prove me wrong
    Last edited by garou12; 5th November 2007 at 02:23 PM.

  20. #60
    Senior Member Cheesecake's Avatar
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    Default Re: Freelance Model Thoughts on Photography

    Quote Originally Posted by garou12 View Post
    by all means correct me if you want. He may have stuck to his own style but he knew how to sell his work to create demand for it. especially if you can show he died penny less to prove me wrong
    the truth is, u got the facts wrong abt Picasso's life and artistic directions.

    he's way ahead of his time. as for the marketing side, u will do well to read up on his life history and his artistic direction as well as influence.
    You'll Never Walk Alone! - i have the best job in the world!

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