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Thread: Odex still on warpath

  1. #21

    Default Re: Odex still on warpath

    Quote Originally Posted by garou12 View Post
    you imagine that someone had some riduclous claim that you're causing his business to drop just because you're not buying his product. Then he goes and tries to make you pay up by threatening you with a lawsuit with which he absolutely has no basis or grounds to claim damages. then he goes and says several statements in the media proclaiming how righteous he is while contradicting himself especially saying that people are like you are what's causing businesses in the market to fail. And he's doing this while stepping on everyone and violating people's privacy. how would you react then?
    ?? I don't download anime so I can't really imagine why someone will try to sue me. If someone will bring a baseless charge against me, I will first put faith in our legal system. But frankly, my own opinon is, if I don't do illegal stuff, nobody will come after me. If someone does come after me for no reason, our legal system will just have to do its job.

    PS: I think Odex has more grounds that what you write above just from the fact that they are actually going the legal route.


    Frankly, from a bystander point of view, it is hard to argue the legal merits of the case, I would not do so as I am not a lawyer but I see many of you have already passed your judgements. The point I am making is from my personal opinon, I really applaud what Odex is trying to do.

    As many of you has mentioned, it is really not in Odex best interest in doing it but this episode may bring hopefully iron out the copyright protection rights for other publishers so they can sue illegal downloaders more easily in the future. and do it in a LEGAL way in singapore.

  2. #22

    Default Re: Odex still on warpath

    Quote Originally Posted by wind30 View Post
    ?? I don't download anime so I can't really imagine why someone will try to sue me. If someone will bring a baseless charge against me, I will first put faith in our legal system. But frankly, my own opinon is, if I don't do illegal stuff, nobody will come after me. If someone does come after me for no reason, our legal system will just have to do its job.

    PS: I think Odex has more grounds that what you write above just from the fact that they are actually going the legal route.


    Frankly, from a bystander point of view, it is hard to argue the legal merits of the case, I would not do so as I am not a lawyer but I see many of you have already passed your judgements. The point I am making is from my personal opinon, I really applaud what Odex is trying to do.

    As many of you has mentioned, it is really not in Odex best interest in doing it but this episode may bring hopefully iron out the copyright protection rights for other publishers so they can sue illegal downloaders more easily in the future. and do it in a LEGAL way in singapore.
    has it occurred that you since you obviously have no idea on the matter; that they are manipulating the law? Has it occurred to you that if Odex wins it opens the door for every greedy corporation to just go and directly claim damages from people without going thru the courts? not to mention use the law to bully people...

    Do you know that technically by your own admission in that other thread that anyone can bring allegations against you for criminal negligance on the road? But no one is doing so because we're not the ones to do so. Think before openly you applaud what an unethical organization is doing. Because when something similar happens to you and you cry foul, you're going to know what it feels like.

  3. #23

    Default Re: Odex still on warpath

    Quote Originally Posted by wind30 View Post
    ?? I don't download anime so I can't really imagine why someone will try to sue me. If someone will bring a baseless charge against me, I will first put faith in our legal system. But frankly, my own opinon is, if I don't do illegal stuff, nobody will come after me. If someone does come after me for no reason, our legal system will just have to do its job.

    PS: I think Odex has more grounds that what you write above just from the fact that they are actually going the legal route.


    Frankly, from a bystander point of view, it is hard to argue the legal merits of the case, I would not do so as I am not a lawyer but I see many of you have already passed your judgements. The point I am making is from my personal opinon, I really applaud what Odex is trying to do.

    As many of you has mentioned, it is really not in Odex best interest in doing it but this episode may bring hopefully iron out the copyright protection rights for other publishers so they can sue illegal downloaders more easily in the future. and do it in a LEGAL way in singapore.
    I suggest you read up on the whole situation first....

  4. #24
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    Default Re: Odex still on warpath

    What would you do if you see a child do something wrong in public (anything that can be sued) ?.
    Send a letter and sue him straightaway and make sure he (or his parents) pay compensation ?.

  5. #25

    Default Re: Odex still on warpath

    Quote Originally Posted by mattlock View Post
    I suggest you read up on the whole situation first....
    ??? why? I know roughly what is happening, I read some of the threads about this b4.

    BUT I have not passed a judgement on whether Odex is doing is right or wrong legally? I personally don't believe I can make that judgement without months or maybe years of studies so I am not going to bother.

    What I am saying is that it sets a good precedent. If they lose the case, people like Odex will know what the legal boundaries are. If they win, it makes it clear for other people to get compensation. With all the illegal downloading going on, it is only a matter of time before something like this happens. not just in singapore but all over the world. The legal boundaries needs to be drawn clearly.

    PS: most of the analogies posted in this thread is realy not similar to what is happening here.

  6. #26
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    Default Re: Odex still on warpath

    Quote Originally Posted by shinken View Post
    Oversimplifying an entire issue. I'll keep it simple for you. Odex claimed money from people who infringed copyrights (yes, those who have infringed copyrights, need to bear legal consequences) BUT for copyrights that they DO NOT own.
    They do not need to own the copyrights. They can have a license to the rights, and I think I remember that the Japanse copyright owners clearly backed Odex on this issue. Are you suggesting people cannot legally go after burglars because they rent their home instead of owning it?

    The fundamental issue is that people knowingly pirate others intellectual property, and when they get caught they try to detract from it with all kinds of excuses, talk about all kinds of ethics except the (lack of) their own, and try to portrait themselves as victims.

  7. #27

    Default Re: Odex still on warpath

    Quote Originally Posted by LittleWolf View Post
    They do not need to own the copyrights. They can have a license to the rights, and I think I remember that the Japanse copyright owners clearly backed Odex on this issue. Are you suggesting people cannot legally go after burglars because they rent their home instead of owning it?

    The fundamental issue is that people knowingly pirate others intellectual property, and when they get caught they try to detract from it with all kinds of excuses, talk about all kinds of ethics except the (lack of) their own, and try to portrait themselves as victims.
    According to the law Odex has to be exclusive licensees and they AREN'T. Also as of now the law is still unclear if the anime aspect of what;s happening is fair use or not. There is no real infringment because as the law states no one is making money and deprieving odex of money with fansubs.

  8. #28

    Default Re: Odex still on warpath

    Quote Originally Posted by wind30 View Post
    ??? why? I know roughly what is happening, I read some of the threads about this b4.

    BUT I have not passed a judgement on whether Odex is doing is right or wrong legally? I personally don't believe I can make that judgement without months or maybe years of studies so I am not going to bother.

    What I am saying is that it sets a good precedent. If they lose the case, people like Odex will know what the legal boundaries are. If they win, it makes it clear for other people to get compensation. With all the illegal downloading going on, it is only a matter of time before something like this happens. not just in singapore but all over the world. The legal boundaries needs to be drawn clearly.

    PS: most of the analogies posted in this thread is realy not similar to what is happening here.
    If you say that you're not making judgement on doex's actions then why did you say you support what they're doing?

  9. #29

    Default Re: Odex still on warpath

    Quote Originally Posted by ZDragon View Post
    this shows the inconsistancy in our legal system. One Judge says cannot and get another judge and the judge will tell you it's ok. So what's ok and what's not? Our legan system is a mess.
    this is so that people who disagree with the judgement get a second chance to obtain a new one

    and i think you'd have to agree that the amount of problems that crop up in court have no end - just look at the famous joo chiat neighbour quarrel case, doubt there is any law about most of the things being done

    there are also ethical grey areas - like twin separation - religious viewpoint versus pragmatic viewpoint..

    it's certainly not the most organised of things.. but it is a framework that we can fall back on.. i 'd certainly prefer that there is no one size fits all set of laws..

    or would you rather that we feed in the situation into a computer who decides immediately, and without any leeway the judgement?

  10. #30
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    Default Re: Odex still on warpath

    Maybe someone should start a worldwide ban on Animae and point the finger at ODEX for being the reason. I'm sure if no one dls, buys copies animae for a 6 month period, and I am talking about a TOTAL ban, then the animators, distributors and shitty ODEX would start to quiver in their shorts. Imagine, total ZERO revenue for 6 whole months, all because ODEX decides to Strongarm the kids, students and little people out there.

    And someone points the finger at ODEX as being the reason behind the Ban. I wonder how long the company would last???

  11. #31

    Default Re: Odex still on warpath

    Quote Originally Posted by NinjaDevilz View Post
    Maybe someone should start a worldwide ban on Animae and point the finger at ODEX for being the reason. I'm sure if no one dls, buys copies animae for a 6 month period, and I am talking about a TOTAL ban, then the animators, distributors and shitty ODEX would start to quiver in their shorts. Imagine, total ZERO revenue for 6 whole months, all because ODEX decides to Strongarm the kids, students and little people out there.

    And someone points the finger at ODEX as being the reason behind the Ban. I wonder how long the company would last???
    ooo the otakus in japan and america would be calling for their heads. that's for sure.

  12. #32

    Default Re: Odex still on warpath

    why having war here in clubsnap..chill brothers

  13. #33

    Default Re: Odex still on warpath

    Quote Originally Posted by LittleWolf View Post
    They do not need to own the copyrights. They can have a license to the rights, and I think I remember that the Japanse copyright owners clearly backed Odex on this issue. Are you suggesting people cannot legally go after burglars because they rent their home instead of owning it?

    The fundamental issue is that people knowingly pirate others intellectual property, and when they get caught they try to detract from it with all kinds of excuses, talk about all kinds of ethics except the (lack of) their own, and try to portrait themselves as victims.
    Get your facts. Period.

  14. #34

    Default Re: Odex still on warpath

    Just a thought if Odex wins the appeal, does it mean the whole story will start again with people being invited for coffee and an offer to pay a "fine"? Just really curious.... any legal experts to answer that?

  15. #35

    Default Re: Odex still on warpath

    Quote Originally Posted by wind30 View Post
    BUT why is everyone so worked up about this?

    Odex can do pretty much what they think it is right. I don't really kow what is right as legal stuff is pretty complicated.

    Seriously, why all the hate against Odex? Personally, I don't really care either way, cuz I don't work in Odex, and I don't download anime.... The courts will decide what is right and Odex is perfectly entitled to getting what they want through the legal channels.

    Common, they are not spray painting people's houses, or putting pigs head, etc. Why all the hate?
    I can't speak for the rest, but for me it's simple. It'll set the precedent of corporates to take the easy way out to make money by threatening legal action whether or not they are in the legal right, and the general ignorant will have to comply. Some of the people who complied to Odex actually had legal advice. Even though there IS a case, it's a waste of money.

    If corporate entities sees this as a new financial opportunity, imagine the kinds of copyright infringements that goes on these days! Everyone would be getting a pseudo-legal letter threatening court cases. You sure you've never downloaded a clipart for a presentation? Made reference to an image without seek full legal copyrights clearance? Zapped an academic article? Nothing at all? Clean? Let the precedent be set, and financial experts will come in and find more for you. The point is, you don't have to actually infringe a copyright. Just may have. And get a letter that threatens legal action. You can choose to dig your bank and defend your belief. Or pay a significantly smaller sum to get it over with.
    Last edited by shinken; 1st November 2007 at 12:13 AM.

  16. #36

    Default Re: Odex still on warpath

    Quote Originally Posted by shinken View Post
    I can't speak for the rest, but for me it's simple. It'll set the precedent of corporates to take the easy way out to make money by threatening legal action whether or not they are in the legal right, and the general ignorant will have to comply. Some of the people who complied to Odex actually had legal advice. Even though there IS a case, it's a waste of money.

    If corporate entities sees this as a new financial opportunity, imagine the kinds of copyright infringements that goes on these days! Everyone would be getting a pseudo-legal letter threatening court cases. You sure you've never downloaded a clipart for a presentation? Made reference to an image without seek full legal copyrights clearance? Zapped an academic article? Nothing at all? Clean? Let the precedent be set, and financial experts will come in and find more for you. The point is, you don't have to actually infringe a copyright. Just may have. And get a letter that threatens legal action. You can choose to dig your bank and defend your belief. Or pay a significantly smaller sum to get it over with.
    excellent point. Hopefully the by standers will realize that there's more at stake with this case.

  17. #37
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    Default Re: Odex still on warpath

    Quote Originally Posted by shinken View Post
    I can't speak for the rest, but for me it's simple. It'll set the precedent of corporates to take the easy way out to make money by threatening legal action whether or not they are in the legal right, and the general ignorant will have to comply. Some of the people who complied to Odex actually had legal advice. Even though there IS a case, it's a waste of money.

    If corporate entities sees this as a new financial opportunity, imagine the kinds of copyright infringements that goes on these days! Everyone would be getting a pseudo-legal letter threatening court cases. You sure you've never downloaded a clipart for a presentation? Made reference to an image without seek full legal copyrights clearance? Zapped an academic article? Nothing at all? Clean? Let the precedent be set, and financial experts will come in and find more for you. The point is, you don't have to actually infringe a copyright. Just may have. And get a letter that threatens legal action. You can choose to dig your bank and defend your belief. Or pay a significantly smaller sum to get it over with.
    You'll Never Walk Alone! - i have the best job in the world!

  18. #38
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    Default Re: Odex still on warpath

    RIAA has just been hit by a court order, they have to pay legal fees for every person they sue and lost.
    We live in an age when unnecessary things are our only necessities. - Oscar Wilde

  19. #39

    Default Re: Odex still on warpath

    There's already spill over kinda based on what shinken said:
    http://www.todayonline.com/articles/217518.asp
    apparently odex's antics have given local con artists ideas. Odex wins the case, the flood gates open...For those who think this is a meaningless case, think again.

  20. #40
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    Default Re: Odex still on warpath

    Quote Originally Posted by LittleWolf View Post
    I hope you'll advocate the same next time when someone complains about his/her photos being used without consent.
    To quote DeadPoet: Don't want people to rip? Don't post!

    No. If I took a book, corrected the typesetting errors, and republished it, it would still be piracy. It's not a difficult concept at all. If something doesn't belong to you, leave it alone.

    The company doesn't owe it to you to "capture the market" or offer "better products". If you're not happy with the products, don't buy them. But don't steal them either.
    Ironically, going by your illustration (in case you probably know nothing) the reality of it differs.

    1) A 'book' is published in a foreign language

    2) A group of fans of the book decided to commit their spare time to translate the book accurately with as much of the original favour as possible and make it available to everyone in the International Language - English, for free through the internet.

    3) A local publisher (rather unknown) decided to pick up the book for translation by their own team seeing it is on the lips of everyone

    4) The local publisher turns the hardcover into a softcover, of their own design, rather half-assed done AND to top it all off, glaring translation errors, grammatical & vocabulary errors abound WITH censorship (without the blessings and knowledge of the relevant authorities) done to certain phrases which removes what the original author had intended it to be.

    5) The local publisher starts selling it at like $20 apiece for such errors without any form of marketing whatsoever. In fact, nobody even knows that the book's available on sale until someone notices 'some new half-assed ugly looking book vaguely somewhere, sitting on the shelves'. Sales do badly and the publisher decided to start sueing people who downloaded the book for like $500 per page downloaded.

    6) After the case hits the courts, the publisher decided to clean up their act and started releasing new copies of yet another foreign book that had already been translated by another group of fans. HOWEVER, the publisher decided to do things the easy way - they stole the translation done supposedly 'illegally' by the group of fans, credited themselves with the translation AND sold it off for like $20 apiece.

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