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Thread: Becoming a Model: TFCD or NOT?

  1. #1

    Arrow Becoming a Model: TFCD or NOT?

    Recently I came across a number of new 'models' who had done TFCDs with photographers. My disappointment to many a photo which they have shown me. The photos are very nice in the view of a photographer to extend of some even can try for contest. But what of that as a model 'selling' your services to them for free?

    What you may get is a bunch of low resolution watermarked artistic junk...

    The photographer's aim of the shoot is to grab hold of some pics which they are able to show off to and not to concentrate and show off the best of a model. To top it off, they are of such low resolution that you cant use it as comcards or representation materials as they are also watermarked.

    So whats the best bet? Go pay for a creditable professional (hopefully as a pageant photographer in the past or a fashion photographer). Just remember that every hour you spent doing your TFCD can also be converted into cold hard cash instead of wasting your time.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Becoming a Model: TFCD or NOT?

    Well, TFP/TFCD has traditionally been used by both professional models and professional photographers for mutually beneficial gains ~ "free" experimental shots.

    Its just that with the advent of digital photography, many new photographers have entered the market and these usually look for TFP/TFCD. Similarly for many new models with no experience.

    I won't go so far as you say that the opportunity cost is the money you could have earned during the time you did TFP/TFCD. For that to happen, you need to be in so much demand that you do not even have time for TFP/TFCD. Hmmm....

    Edit: I just realised that you are not a model but an organizer of photoshoots... ok... double Hmm....
    Last edited by Zplus; 28th October 2007 at 12:49 AM.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Becoming a Model: TFCD or NOT?

    Theoretically, TFCD is e way to go as most unexperienced models can learn how to pose n learn abit about e industry in e process. They can try things out without paying a big amount going for catwalk classes n all. It is off benefit to both parties. The models learn new stuff n e photographer gets exposure.

    At times, we will have to view things on a case by case basis as both e models n photographers might not be very pro so we have to judge by ourselves.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Becoming a Model: TFCD or NOT?

    Yupz, was an organiser b4... thats quite some time back. Just helping the girls lah...

    I agree to certain extend that TFCD is beneficial to both parties. But so far have any 'newbie' model actually 'worked' with the photographer what she wanted to present also? And also how come the pictures are usualli such low resolution to extend tat usualli cant crop further or enlarge for good size print?

    As for experience gaining, i think learning from good modeling agencies or people with good knowledge and credits are better off as the learning curve will be stronger and faster. Especially if TFCD with amateur photographers where both the model and photographer will usualli be nervous and unsure of what dey are doing...

  5. #5

    Default Re: Becoming a Model: TFCD or NOT?

    Its not baseless though, and definitely not to kill TFCDs as usualli the girls will be at disadvantage and probably after 2-5 TFCD session, she will still be stressed during a casting/audition. I was in one some time back as one of the panel for casting and another peer was like quite shocked by seeing quite a number of girls that came for casting with so-called experience (TFCD) was pretty nervous, stressed out and cant present themselves well during castings.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Cheesecake's Avatar
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    Default Re: Becoming a Model: TFCD or NOT?

    Quote Originally Posted by enimister View Post
    Its not baseless though, and definitely not to kill TFCDs as usualli the girls will be at disadvantage and probably after 2-5 TFCD session, she will still be stressed during a casting/audition. I was in one some time back as one of the panel for casting and another peer was like quite shocked by seeing quite a number of girls that came for casting with so-called experience (TFCD) was pretty nervous, stressed out and cant present themselves well during castings.
    it doesn't mean that professional models dun get nervous during castings and auditions. they might hide it better as they are more seasoned.

    as for presenting in front of a crowd, not many have that kind of gift and thus, most do get nervous. it is understandable. i don't think it happens ONLY to models with not much experience. it affects every model, more or less.

    TFCD is a good way for both fotographer n aspiring models to help each other building up their portfolio. not ALL fotographer give LOW-RES fotos back to the models and definitely not all fotographers are of any acceptable level in terms of skills but then again, that's what TFCD is for, to help each other grow in their respective area and build up each others' portfolio.

    so jus sit down and discuss with the aspiring model on what theme and where to hold the shoot. it's all a learning process.
    You'll Never Walk Alone! - i have the best job in the world!

  7. #7
    Senior Member zac08's Avatar
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    Default Re: Becoming a Model: TFCD or NOT?

    Yeah... TFCD's are good as exposure. To get some practise time, and there is no stress on not being able to deliver as opposed to a paid shoot.

    And without any good shots to show, how do you think they will be able to get any jobs at all?
    Michael Lim
    My Flickr Site

  8. #8

    Default Re: Becoming a Model: TFCD or NOT?

    Quote Originally Posted by enimister View Post
    Recently I came across a number of new 'models' who had done TFCDs with photographers. My disappointment to many a photo which they have shown me. The photos are very nice in the view of a photographer to extend of some even can try for contest. But what of that as a model 'selling' your services to them for free?

    What you may get is a bunch of low resolution watermarked artistic junk...

    The photographer's aim of the shoot is to grab hold of some pics which they are able to show off to and not to concentrate and show off the best of a model. To top it off, they are of such low resolution that you cant use it as comcards or representation materials as they are also watermarked.

    So whats the best bet? Go pay for a creditable professional (hopefully as a pageant photographer in the past or a fashion photographer). Just remember that every hour you spent doing your TFCD can also be converted into cold hard cash instead of wasting your time.
    Are you for real? So what do you suggest? Models pay for their test shoots? I love that idea, and it's practiced in many markets, more than you would have guessed.

    I am putting a quest to you directly, what is your point? Are you offering the models job in return with cold hard cash? Or hire you to shoot for cold hard cash?

    By the way, models are paying with time. Photographers are paying with time, and all the thousand of dollars spent on the equipment, so don't give photographer griefs that they are getting everything for free.

    I have no idea's whose model's portfolio have you seen. I have seen my fair share of pictures in model's book that cannot make it, but for everyone that sucks, there is a good one. So, plese do not make sweeping statements.

    My question remains, what is your ulterior motives?
    deadpoet
    my portfolio

  9. #9

    Default Re: Becoming a Model: TFCD or NOT?

    Quote Originally Posted by Deadpoet View Post
    Are you for real? So what do you suggest? Models pay for their test shoots? I love that idea, and it's practiced in many markets, more than you would have guessed.

    I am putting a quest to you directly, what is your point? Are you offering the models job in return with cold hard cash? Or hire you to shoot for cold hard cash?

    By the way, models are paying with time. Photographers are paying with time, and all the thousand of dollars spent on the equipment, so don't give photographer griefs that they are getting everything for free.

    I have no idea's whose model's portfolio have you seen. I have seen my fair share of pictures in model's book that cannot make it, but for everyone that sucks, there is a good one. So, plese do not make sweeping statements.

    My question remains, what is your ulterior motives?
    Good point

  10. #10

    Default Re: Becoming a Model: TFCD or NOT?

    Your point noted. Some photographer gave low resolution and watermark their copyright so if you want high resolution you have to pay for it.
    Think of concepts and work towards it.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Becoming a Model: TFCD or NOT?

    Quote Originally Posted by airforce1 View Post
    Your point noted. Some photographer gave low resolution and watermark their copyright so if you want high resolution you have to pay for it.
    Am I correct to assume that you do not copyright/watermark soft copies of pictures you give away or pictures you psot on line?

    Whether the high res pictures are for sale or not, or part of the TFCD arrangement, that is to be agreed on before.

    Personally, I do not give high res printable copies of the image file to anywone. I will give the model web copies with watermark, and hard copies with watermark.
    deadpoet
    my portfolio

  12. #12

    Default Re: Becoming a Model: TFCD or NOT?

    The point of TFP/TFCD is that one gets to shoot a "model" for free and the other gets some pictures in exchange. While the photog would typically retain the copyrights, the model can use the pictures for her own portfolio, etc.

    In the old days of TFP, one would expect a minimum print size of 8x10's to be given, and I do not recall such prints generally being watermarked.

    So whether images given in a FTCD should be high res or low res, watermarked or not, etc. are terms to be agreed in advance. If you don't like the terms, don't do the TFCD.

    Speaking for myself, I would give enough res to do an 8x10 print (say equivalent of 6-8MP), with a small watermark. But definitely not raw files, not 16 MP files, etc.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Becoming a Model: TFCD or NOT?

    The problem with watermark, most newbies, their water make is so obtrusive, then it is inappropriate. A small watermark with a copy right statement is not something you can argue against.
    deadpoet
    my portfolio

  14. #14

    Default Re: Becoming a Model: TFCD or NOT?

    Quote Originally Posted by Deadpoet View Post
    Am I correct to assume that you do not copyright/watermark soft copies of pictures you give away or pictures you psot on line?

    Whether the high res pictures are for sale or not, or part of the TFCD arrangement, that is to be agreed on before.

    Personally, I do not give high res printable copies of the image file to anywone. I will give the model web copies with watermark, and hard copies with watermark.
    For me, after the shoot the models choose a series of five best posed and get to keep as their portfolios and download raw files immediately to cd which they keep.

    Those rejected photos if they want, I gave them free as I will be deleting them.
    Think of concepts and work towards it.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Becoming a Model: TFCD or NOT?

    I normally give 5 high res jpegs which have been touched up.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Becoming a Model: TFCD or NOT?

    Quote Originally Posted by airforce1 View Post
    For me, after the shoot the models choose a series of five best posed and get to keep as their portfolios and download raw files immediately to cd which they keep.

    Those rejected photos if they want, I gave them free as I will be deleting them.
    You give them the raw files? Now that is the most misguided act I have know in shooting models, particularily test shoots.

    Don't you have any pride that images that cannot make it should not be circulated?
    deadpoet
    my portfolio

  17. #17

    Default Re: Becoming a Model: TFCD or NOT?

    Quote Originally Posted by Deadpoet View Post
    You give them the raw files? Now that is the most misguided act I have know in shooting models, particularily test shoots.

    There is no misguided act, just goodwill to the models and they can do their own touch up whatever is beneficial to them.

    Don't you have any pride that images that cannot make it should not be circulated?
    Pride-- of course pro models knows what is good images and bad images must not be circulated.
    Think of concepts and work towards it.

  18. #18
    vince123123
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    Default Re: Becoming a Model: TFCD or NOT?

    The risk is yours. If a model shows it to someone and they ask, who took these? And she says "airforce1" then its really your own rep on the line.

    Quote Originally Posted by airforce1 View Post
    Pride-- of course pro models knows what is good images and bad images must not be circulated.
    For the main topic, all the gripes from the TS are things that are easily agreed upon before the shoot. I'm not sure why he seems to be slanting towards asking models to pay for professionals to take their photos, or whether he has some sort of hideen interest in it. You are aware that paying for portfolios have their own fair share of disasters (c.f. modelling agencies and their "portfolio packages").

    What is impiortant is that the photographer and model knows what htey want. In the test shoots that I do, I focus on photos that bring out the model (ie suitable for use as comcards and portfolios) and then once that's done, focus on fun shots that I like (ie things that may not necessarily do so well in a model's portfolio). You do not rock the boat with one stick for all TFCD or TFP vs paid portfolios. There are many paid portfolios I've seen which do not focus on the model at all either.
    Last edited by vince123123; 28th October 2007 at 07:35 PM.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Becoming a Model: TFCD or NOT?

    Quote Originally Posted by airforce1 View Post
    Pride-- of course pro models knows what is good images and bad images must not be circulated.
    Of course ... a good model will not circulate bad pictures of themselves, a photographer with pride will not circulate bad pictures they took

    but giving raw files to models? I hope other impressionable newbies does not follow your totally sensless behavior. By giving up raw fioles with all teh exif data, you are essentially kissing your claim to copyright goodbye.

    Good luck, but then, if the pictures are bad, who cares about copyrights.
    deadpoet
    my portfolio

  20. #20

    Default Re: Becoming a Model: TFCD or NOT?

    extracted directly from http://www.sips.co.za/english1.htm

    NEW MODELS PLEASE READ

    I wanted to wish all new models luck and some advice in getting started ...

    As a new model, you need to establish yourself with great photos and a professional approach to this business. You are most likely here to make some money vs. just to have fun and if this is the case you need to treat it as a business. I too am here to make money at this, it is my job. My job is to create the images that you need to capture your best look in order to book paid modeling assignments. I am also here to get you started in the modeling business and will give you advice to help get you off to a running start. I do however charge for my services and though I am pretty good (at least that's what I am told), I am not as expensive as some other photographer are. I feel I provide a great service for the amount that I charge. That being said I want to let you know that I do not offer TFCD/trade to new models needing to get started and rarely accept trade shoots with well established models that are already making money in the industry. I do however get many paid assignments from these well established models who want to take their portfolios to a new level and they are willing to pay my fees to get those photos.

    There are photographers that are out there that do accept TFCD and create some great shots. The biggest problem is that it can take 5-10 photoshoots to get any of the quality that you would need to get to create a comp card or 8x10's suitable to present to agencies and potential clients. What I offer for a fee is to create in a single day enough high quality photos that you can get all the shots you need for a full comp card and 8x10's to get started with paid assignments. Included in all of my packages is the benefit of a professional make-up artist/hair stylist to make you look the best that you can. This is not usually provided in a TFCD shoot and can make or break your shoot. So my question to you is, "How soon do you want to start making money"? Most new models that are serious will choose to take the best route and make the sacrifice to get the high quality images needed to start immediately.

    Safety is also a major concern to be dealt with as a new model. Many of the so called "professional" photographers out there are not doing this as a business and I would ask you, "If they are not doing this as a business, then why are they doing it"? Is it to meet girls, sneak a peek or ??? I on the other hand treat it as a business and have an impeccable record with all of the models I have ever worked with. This is not a slam to the other photographers out there that act professionally and create great work, it is a slam to the so called "professional" that is there to prey on the new models to sneak peeks and more extreme cases physically attack the new models trusting in them. There are many of them out there and you need to be very careful with your safety. Find out who you are dealing with BEFORE you get into a bad situation. Your safety is guaranteed with me. I can supply many a reference with models that I have worked with on a one-on-one basis as well as with others present. Just ask or contact them directly. Be safe!

    Sorry about the length of this, but I wanted to let you know some of the benefits of shooting with me on a paid shoot so that you can make the choice to either book me for a shoot or to take your chances with TFCD and all the so called "professional" photographers that are out there for their personal pleasure. My questions to you are:

    How soon do you want to make money? & Why is this "professional" willing to shoot with me on a TFCD basis?

    If the answers are not clear, feel free to contact me to talk...otherwise, feel free to book me for a shoot and start making money sooner than later...

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