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Thread: What aperture to select for landscape?

  1. #21
    Senior Member Kit's Avatar
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    Default Re: What aperture to select for landscape?

    Quote Originally Posted by F2point8 View Post
    Pardon me for asking this quite stupid question. When you guys said photos are sharpest at f8 to f11, then why we still buy f2.8 constant aperture lens which costs much more? Kind of confusing???? I know f2.8 is wide open and can be used under low light condition. Beside that any other reason to pay more??
    This is the misconception a lot of people possess. They often confuse deep DOF and in-focus as being sharp. In focus and sharpness are 2 different animals.

  2. #22
    Senior Member xunjas's Avatar
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    Default Re: What aperture to select for landscape?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kit View Post
    No, the aperture to use is largely dependent on the amount of foreground you want to be in focus. This will work together with the focussing distance. Its much more easier to practice this with prime lenses which the distance scale will tell you everything you need to know.

    In general, with hyper distance focussing, the smaller the aperture you use, the nearer the hyper distance(distance away from the camera which the lens is focussed on) will be, given you deeper DOF. Objects in the background will also be in focussed with the use of the small aperture.
    first paragraph i can understand.

    i under hyper distance focusing now.
    another question, if the objects in background are in focus, they can be not sharp rite?

  3. #23

    Default Re: What aperture to select for landscape?

    Quote Originally Posted by xunjas View Post
    first paragraph i can understand.

    i under hyper distance focusing now.
    another question, if the objects in background are in focus, they can be not sharp rite?
    ...that's like saying that an oof picture can be sharp
    and an infocus picture can be not sharp

    nonetheless, if you're saying NOT AS SHARP then if you had focused on them instead.. it is entirely possible, of course. i hope i have deciphered correctly what you are trying to say

  4. #24

    Default Re: What aperture to select for landscape?

    Quote Originally Posted by night86mare View Post
    ...that's like saying that an oof picture can be sharp
    and an infocus picture can be not sharp

    nonetheless, if you're saying NOT AS SHARP then if you had focused on them instead.. it is entirely possible, of course. i hope i have deciphered correctly what you are trying to say
    wah , cheam leh.

    wat i feel,

    OOF, cannot be sharp cus its OOF (regardless of the quality of lens).

    in-focus, can be not sharp, cus the lens is inherently not sharp.

    rite?

  5. #25

    Default Re: What aperture to select for landscape?

    Quote Originally Posted by attap seed View Post
    wah , cheam leh.

    wat i feel,

    OOF, cannot be sharp cus its OOF (regardless of the quality of lens).

    in-focus, can be not sharp, cus the lens is inherently not sharp.

    rite?
    haiyo, look at it this way, if you are taking a landscape photo, and are focusing on the wrong thing, say the sky and not the foreground.. if you are using f/11 with sufficient dof chances are that it will look in focus too, and i doubt anyone would be able to tell where you are focusing on. of course if the foreground is really really in your face then that's another story.

    this is different from say, taking a photo of a person against a background and using f/1.4.. in this case if you focus on background the poor person will be 100% plus chop oof

    whereas if you focus on person, background will be 100% plus chop in focus

    now, concentrate on this example, and think of f/11, perhaps. now focus on the person versus focus on the background. do you think the differences will be visible? but yet, the person in the second example would probably be MARGINALLY sharper than the person in the foreground, i.e. yet in both cases the person would appear to be in focus

    of course this would depend on the FOCAL LENGTH used, as well as the type of lens use, like macro has very razor thin dof compared to normal lenses when in macro mode.

  6. #26

    Default Re: What aperture to select for landscape?

    Quote Originally Posted by F2point8 View Post
    Pardon me for asking this quite stupid question. When you guys said photos are sharpest at f8 to f11, then why we still buy f2.8 constant aperture lens which costs much more? Kind of confusing???? I know f2.8 is wide open and can be used under low light condition. Beside that any other reason to pay more??
    To see the effects of it, you should try to shoot pictures indoors at f/8~f/11 without getting blurred pictures. Thus the need for lenses with wider apertures. Good lenses, like the Canon L series, Leica, Zeiss and Nikon Trinity lenses produce excellent pictures wide open, but it's just a fact that the pictures are going to be at it's best when it's at f/8 - f/11 as at that aperture setting, the best spot of the lens, the center is used.

    Samuel

  7. #27

    Default Re: What aperture to select for landscape?

    this is not a stupid question.

    fast (and expensive) lens are needed to allow high shutter speed (eg sports, esp indoors) or extremely shallow depth of field (eg potrait).

    however, regardless of fast or slow lens, performance normally improves from some stopping down. and 8 and 11 (the middle apertures) usually happens to be the sharpest.

    to me, it is pointless to buy a big and expensive piece of glass (eg f 1.2) and almost never shoot wide open. jus like driving a sports car in a country where there is no proper road or the speed limit is only 50 km/h.

    a very personal opinion of mine is that extremely fast lens are pushing the boundaries of lens design (which makes them expensive). they are critical when a photo must be "squeezed" out from almost impossible scenarios (eg photo journalism). dun expect the quality to be spectacular wide open at extreme apertures.

  8. #28
    Senior Member xunjas's Avatar
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    Default Re: What aperture to select for landscape?

    Quote Originally Posted by night86mare View Post
    ...that's like saying that an oof picture can be sharp
    and an infocus picture can be not sharp

    nonetheless, if you're saying NOT AS SHARP then if you had focused on them instead.. it is entirely possible, of course. i hope i have deciphered correctly what you are trying to say
    yeah.. u got it right.. in focus but not as sharp..

    it could be the DOF is not wide enough..

  9. #29
    Senior Member xunjas's Avatar
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    Default Re: What aperture to select for landscape?

    Quote Originally Posted by attap seed View Post
    wah , cheam leh.

    wat i feel,

    OOF, cannot be sharp cus its OOF (regardless of the quality of lens).

    in-focus, can be not sharp, cus the lens is inherently not sharp.

    rite?
    yup... that's right.

  10. #30
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    Default Re: What aperture to select for landscape?

    Quote Originally Posted by attap seed View Post
    this is not a stupid question.

    fast (and expensive) lens are needed to allow high shutter speed (eg sports, esp indoors) or extremely shallow depth of field (eg potrait).

    however, regardless of fast or slow lens, performance normally improves from some stopping down. and 8 and 11 (the middle apertures) usually happens to be the sharpest.

    to me, it is pointless to buy a big and expensive piece of glass (eg f 1.2) and almost never shoot wide open. jus like driving a sports car in a country where there is no proper road or the speed limit is only 50 km/h.

    a very personal opinion of mine is that extremely fast lens are pushing the boundaries of lens design (which makes them expensive). they are critical when a photo must be "squeezed" out from almost impossible scenarios (eg photo journalism). dun expect the quality to be spectacular wide open at extreme apertures.

    Thanks bro for the clear explanation. Now I feel better that I did ask that question.
    Cheers!
    5DMKIiI|24-105f4L|50f1.4|70-200f2.8L|400f5.6L
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  11. #31
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    Default Re: What aperture to select for landscape?

    Quote Originally Posted by alternatve View Post
    To see the effects of it, you should try to shoot pictures indoors at f/8~f/11 without getting blurred pictures. Thus the need for lenses with wider apertures. Good lenses, like the Canon L series, Leica, Zeiss and Nikon Trinity lenses produce excellent pictures wide open, but it's just a fact that the pictures are going to be at it's best when it's at f/8 - f/11 as at that aperture setting, the best spot of the lens, the center is used.

    Samuel
    Thanks, Samuel. Will try that with my 50mm f1.4 and shoot with wide open versus at f11 indoor with proper lighting.
    5DMKIiI|24-105f4L|50f1.4|70-200f2.8L|400f5.6L
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  12. #32

    Default Re: What aperture to select for landscape?

    Quote Originally Posted by night86mare View Post
    this is different from say, taking a photo of a person against a background and using f/1.4.. in this case if you focus on background the poor person will be 100% plus chop oof

    whereas if you focus on person, background will be 100% plus chop in focus
    I don't quite understand this part, wouldn't focusing on the person also render the background oof as well, at an aperture of f/1.4?

  13. #33

    Default Re: What aperture to select for landscape?

    Quote Originally Posted by raymond350 View Post
    I don't quite understand this part, wouldn't focusing on the person also render the background oof as well, at an aperture of f/1.4?
    aiya make mistake la, it's obvious what i meant is render bg oof

    next time just correct in your own mind, i don't really care.. don't usually read my posts after typing

  14. #34

    Default Re: What aperture to select for landscape?

    Quote Originally Posted by 2.8photography View Post
    depends on the focal length and object to sensor distance

    ive used 12mm at f/4 (wide open) and the whole image was sharp, as long as focus was anything 1m to infinity
    Could you show us an example? I shot at f/2.8 at ISO 1600 (becoz it was very dark and I didn't have a tripod/IS with me) and placed my focus on the tip of the tall structure, which I believe is the furthest from the camera and could place everything in focus. However, the foreground turned out oof after viewing it fullscreen on comp. Is there anyway I can shoot at f/2.8 and acheive reasonable sharpness throughout the photo for the same photo framing? Hopefully someone can enlighten me Thanks

    PS: I dun think it's handshake hmm...


  15. #35
    Senior Member giantcanopy's Avatar
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    Default Re: What aperture to select for landscape?

    Quote Originally Posted by artofshuenalogy View Post
    Could you show us an example? I shot at f/2.8 at ISO 1600 (becoz it was very dark and I didn't have a tripod/IS with me) and placed my focus on the tip of the tall structure, which I believe is the furthest from the camera and could place everything in focus. However, the foreground turned out oof after viewing it fullscreen on comp. Is there anyway I can shoot at f/2.8 and acheive reasonable sharpness throughout the photo for the same photo framing? Hopefully someone can enlighten me Thanks

    PS: I dun think it's handshake hmm...

    This is Taiwan - Lover's bridge right ? :P
    I do not think u can keep every subject there at reasonable sharpness at 2.8.
    There is only so much DOF when u shoot at 2.8, and will not be able to cover the picture u took from forground to the bridge

    Ryan

  16. #36

    Default Re: What aperture to select for landscape?

    Quote Originally Posted by giantcanopy View Post
    This is Taiwan - Lover's bridge right ? :P
    I do not think u can keep every subject there at reasonable sharpness at 2.8.
    There is only so much DOF when u shoot at 2.8, and will not be able to cover the picture u took from forground to the bridge

    Ryan
    Yup i agree. Personally I think it's a nice picture ruined by large aperture. In this case, must I shoot at at least f/8 onwards and with a tripod (unless I've got IS-VR-SS hands) and there's no other way out? Thanks

  17. #37
    Senior Member xunjas's Avatar
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    Default Re: What aperture to select for landscape?

    Quote Originally Posted by giantcanopy View Post
    This is Taiwan - Lover's bridge right ? :P
    I do not think u can keep every subject there at reasonable sharpness at 2.8.
    There is only so much DOF when u shoot at 2.8, and will not be able to cover the picture u took from forground to the bridge

    Ryan
    DOF not enough @ f/2.8, the picture look soft~~ @ least f/8 is need to get it right. =)

  18. #38

    Default Re: What aperture to select for landscape?

    Quote Originally Posted by night86mare View Post
    no. beyond a certain small aperture, diffraction comes into play, which causes the image to become "soft"
    you can google this, there is an article in wikipedia explaining what diffraction is
    Quote Originally Posted by ykia View Post
    If you wish to get the "starburst" effect on your night shots, then you might have to go higher (F/13~F/22).
    Quote Originally Posted by night86mare View Post
    not just night shots - in daytime when you wish to make the sun into a star, instead of a big flat pancake, especially in situations where it is relatively strong, but not overpowering, you can use a small aperture as well
    so can say the starburst effect is relative to the diffraction?

  19. #39

    Default Re: What aperture to select for landscape?

    my prosumer cam is capable of f/2.8 to f/8.0
    so its safe to use f/2.8 for macro and portraits
    and f/8.0 for scenery unless i decide to play with DOF for my photo?

  20. #40

    Default Re: What aperture to select for landscape?

    I understand that only the exact point of focus is truly sharp. The depth of field is simply a region of acceptable sharpness. The scenery outside the depth of field is therefore unacceptable in terms of sharpness.

    The depth of field does not just depend on the aperture. It is also affected by the focal length and sensor size. As a guide, the smaller the aperture, the shorter the focal length and the larger the sensor size, will make for greater depth of field.

    You can find out more about the hyperfocal distance for your set-up at http://www.dofmaster.com. The hyperfocal distance varies by kit.

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