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Thread: Would-be 10D owners don't come in!!

  1. #1
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    Exclamation Would-be 10D owners don't come in!!

    Warning : Reading the following post may cause un-easiness to existing 10D owners and affect the buying decision of would-be 10D owners.

    Close this browser immediately if you DO NOT FEEL any problems with your 10D or going to get a 10D soon. I am not responsible for any frustration and disappointment which you will be facing after seeing these pictures. Anyway, this is what i have been suffering from the past one month with my 10D.


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    I am probably the first few owner of 10D in Singapore, got my set on 27 March from a shop in Sim Lim. Many of you have heard of how great is 10D compare to D60 & D30. But seldom see anyone complain abt it. Here are some first hand experiences that I would like to share with you all. As an ex-D30 owner, I have never encounter such problems before with same lenses, these problems are so obvious that I can't just close one eyes and forget about it.

    The images from my first set of 10D have this strange blue colour pixel especially when the shutter speed is above 2s.



    It was replaced with another set a few days later. At first I never notice any problem until i did some product shots using smaller aperture (f11)

    Dust! how many dust spots can u find? The below pic was taken by shooting at the sky at f22, auto level and resized. Originally the dust particles are even bigger and more obvious, as u can see from the 100% crop in the pic



    The set was bought back to Canon Service Center, Canon's Assistant Director of the Imaging department personally served me and check my set. Since he promised that the sensor was cleaned, I trusted him and never did any test after i got back the camera from him.

    When I was on the bus, I tried shooting the sky using f22, and to my disappointment, I still see the two big dark spots even on the camera's LCD screen. Seems that after Canon cleaned the sensor, it became even more dusty! Now there are some dust particles inside the viewfinder that cannot be blown away, and these dust particles are rather big.
    Last edited by Wai; 2nd May 2003 at 12:19 AM.

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    More surprises after the trip to canon, the LCD screen suddenly turned blue and the camera hang while I was viewing some picture. I hope that canon didn’t spoil anything after the cleaning.

    I also complained to Canon about the focusing problem that I encountered. At first I didn’t realised that the camera back focus until almost every pic I took are out of focus. When I shoot with a tele at wide open, due to the shallow DOF, the effect is the most obvious.

    He also tested the focusing for me and found that indeed there is a slight back focusing, they were using some test charts to do the testing and I wasn’t sure of the lens/setting or procedures he used. Anyway, the conclusion is that the back focusing problem is still “acceptable".

    So I decided to do more tests to show them.

    The camera was mounted on a tripod, with cable release and mirror lockup enabled. The test objects are shown in the pic above, the box, heatsink and the piece of paper are all inline and parallel to the camera which is about 2m away. The paper was folded backward after the black vertical line. The camera was set to ISO 100, one shot AF mode, with a 550EX mounted and pointed at the ceiling. The flash’ AF assist lamp was used to ensure that the AF is as accurate as possible. Lens used were 50mm/f1.8 and 70-200L f2.8 @ 200mm. Only center focus point was used and the pictures were taken at Av mode with aperture at wide open.


    Firstly, I turn the focusing distance to minimum, then half press to AF on the center of the blue box. The above picture was cropped and resized, the original pic without resize is here http://kamwai.clubsnap.org/10D/focus-01.jpg


    Next, I turn the focusing distance to infinity, then half press to AF on the center of the blue box. The above picture was cropped and resized, the original pic without resize is here http://kamwai.clubsnap.org/10D/focus-02.jpg


    Lastly, the above shot was taken using manual focus. It was cropped and resized, the original pic without resize is here http://kamwai.clubsnap.org/10D/focus-03.jpg

    As you can see, the focusing problem seems to be even worse when focusing from minimum (ie. the first pic)
    Last edited by Wai; 2nd May 2003 at 12:24 AM.

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    Poor Poor Wai............


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    whats the serial no of your unit? thank you!

  6. #6

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    Hi Wai,

    After all the incident that you have mentioned and tested. What is the best alternative technical offer from Canon service center? I hope your test result will be a valueable feedback to them after the product has released in the market.

    As the product that we own is not a $100 - $400 kind of item, which you may forget about it if the service are not doing any further for you or to see you as a loyaty customer.

    If the issue above you mentioned is not addressed properly from Canon service support or any replacement unit to offer. I think we may play a part to assist further to make a huge complaint.

    Remember, whether you are a lucky owner of 10D or not a lucky user, you may need the support some how. In order to make them take care of your 10D whether for now or later, we must make an impact before is too late.

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    0230104309

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    Originally posted by Wai
    0230104309
    is tat possible for you to exchange for a new batch one?

    my first unit is also 023xxxx with various kind of problem including hot pixels. later i exchanged for a newer batch with serial no 043xxxx. feel lots of better.

    of course it does not mean all earlier batch have problem....

  9. #9

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    I bought my set on the same day after Wai. Initially I did not notice anything amiss with my pictures . As I was testing my taking pictures using ISO3200 at 30secs...the resulting pictures all average about 3.6Mb with 16000 hotpixels. (Used a hotpixel program to check)

    Compared to fellow 10D owners (which I sought pictures taken at same settings) their average file sizes was 2.6mb to 2.7 mb with 150 hotpixels .

    I know that most of us will not take pictures at such extreme settings but the queston is why such a great difference in picture quality.

    This post was not to bash Canon up as I presently also own a D60 with no such problems. Please future 10D owners check throughly before buying.

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    Originally posted by Buzz
    I bought my set on the same day after Wai. Initially I did not notice anything amiss with my pictures . As I was testing my taking pictures using ISO3200 at 30secs...the resulting pictures all average about 3.6Mb with 16000 hotpixels. (Used a hotpixel program to check)

    Compared to fellow 10D owners (which I sought pictures taken at same settings) their average file sizes was 2.6mb to 2.7 mb with 150 hotpixels .
    yes...my first 10D also lots of hot pixel....but not as bad as yours lor

    however compare to other DC, the hot pixel is very very much lesser for 10D

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    Originally posted by liuhao
    is tat possible for you to exchange for a new batch one?

    my first unit is also 023xxxx with various kind of problem including hot pixels. later i exchanged for a newer batch with serial no 043xxxx. feel lots of better.

    of course it does not mean all earlier batch have problem....
    hmm...from 023xxx jump to 043xxx?

    when u got yours? mine already 1 mth old, no way the shop will let me exchange rite...

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    Originally posted by liuhao
    is tat possible for you to exchange for a new batch one?

    my first unit is also 023xxxx with various kind of problem including hot pixels. later i exchanged for a newer batch with serial no 043xxxx. feel lots of better.

    of course it does not mean all earlier batch have problem....
    Hi,

    Sometime ago i did a bit of research on the hot pixel. As long as the number is few, it should not matter. I got 2 out of 6MP and they became obvious with anything more than 1 s. My s/n is 023xxx.

    Whether your present set has any or not does not matter because this hot pixel will develop along your usage. Probably due to the wear and tear of the sensor. What Canon can do is to re-map the bad ones with the good ones (its something like the harddisk bad sector). I would recommend owner to send in to "re-calibrate" before your warranty expired.

    As for focusing problem, try to do it outdoor with good lighting, else the camera AF may not be so good. Check the focus point with the included utility, you may see that the focus point may be wrong.

  13. #13

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    Yes....but we both paid the same amount of money to get this camera and the difference is very great. A slight difference I would think it is normal...

    anyway both of us are not very happy .....

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    wonder if 10D owner experience this....let's say when u aim at a big and flat object, u half press and focus locked. then u half press again and u can see the lens actually hunt a bit...even i am using one-shot AF mode with center focus point only also experience the same thing

    this is something that i seldom encounter with D30.

    may be becos the camera sensed that the object still not focus when u half-press the 2nd time, so it try to focus again but still unable to get pin-point focus?

    i do agree that the AF speed of 10D is really really fast now, but if it can't focus accurately...what is the use?

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    Originally posted by Shib

    As for focusing problem, try to do it outdoor with good lighting, else the camera AF may not be so good. Check the focus point with the included utility, you may see that the focus point may be wrong.
    tried outdoor under a hot and bright sun, but still like that...just that this time i setup tripod and everything properly, the room was rather bright becos it was afternoon time.

    hmm....later will try to use the utility to check the focus point...but if the focus point not tally with what i see in viewfinder.....how?

  16. #16

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    I think this issue of front focus or back focus is heavily debated on DPReview. Check this out...

    http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/re...essage=4923768

    http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/re...essage=4954575

    ....World wide problem....

  17. #17

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    That's y they say for technological gadgets...never be the first to plunge in.....

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    oh..btw, i was told that i can send my lens to calibrate with the camera, but since there isn't such problem with D30 last time, i dun think it will be lens fault....somemore i have to pay $120 to calibrate the lens!

    someone mentioned in dpreview that these back/front focusing problems are "acceptable" because all these lenses are design for film body, so a larger error is not easily detected.

    but with digital, all kinds of lens flaws will be easily seen esp with a 11MP 1Ds

    may be last time 10% error is acceptable on film body, that's why only SOME lens will shows these flaws if you are unlucky and get a bad copy.

    furthermore with internet, information travel so fast that if someone discover any bugs, users from every part of the world will know about it even before the manufacturer themselves
    Last edited by Wai; 1st May 2003 at 09:29 PM.

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    Originally posted by Wai
    oh..btw, i was told that i can send my lens to calibrate with the camera, but since there isn't such problem with D30 last time, i dun think it will be lens fault....somemore i have to pay $120 to calibrate the lens!

    btw, someone mentioned in dpreview that these back/front focusing problems are "acceptable" because all these lenses are design for film body, so a larger error is not easily detected.

    but with digital, all kinds of lens flaws will be easily seen esp with a 11MP 1Ds

    may be last time 10% error is acceptable on film body, that's why only SOME lens will shows these flaws if you are unlucky and get a bad copy.

    furthermore with internet, information travel so fast that if someone discover any bugs, users from every part of the world will know about it even before the manufacturer themselves
    Hi Wai,

    I think you have been too "lucky" enough. I suggest you to push your way through and demand for a new set or they do the necessary calibration free of charge for all the problems you went through. I think your set should still be in warranty. At least if i am in your shoe, i will do that.

    As for newbies to DSLR, i suggest before you buy any new len, bring along your camera body and test out at the shop. Try a few shots and zoom all the way to see the details before you pay the money. Isnt previewing one of the DSLR's advantage? Make use of it then!

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    using FileViewer Utility comes with the CD

    this is how the AF point look like, same location for first two pic.


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