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Thread: Teacher Jonathan Lock wins appeal

  1. #21

    Default Re: Teacher Jonathan Lock wins appeal

    Quote Originally Posted by rvxing View Post
    The case has yet to end, JL is suing his x-lawyer and the x is counter suing. If Law society found the x error in his job, then the x will loss both cases.

    Don't understand why JL stuck to the case for so long, after PDRC rewarded the case. The problem arises bcos of $60 question. JL x decided to take further action and followed by NTUC's lawyer and then this complicated case.
    The Court of Appeal was very clear. Apparently, Lock's lawyer did all those things without his knowledge or consent. Which is why they were very pissed at him, and are referring to the matter of his unprofessional conduct for investigation by the Law Society.

    This case arose because the two lawyers couldn't agree on whether Mr Hanam's charges should be $290 or $230. A $60 difference. One went to court to get a writ of seizure, the other went to the court to have it set aside. Both lawyers "buay song", hence they kept bombarding each other legally over $60. Mr Lock apparently didn't know anything about Mr Hanam's action, NTUC claims that they didn't really manage their lawyer's action properly, hence the CEO decided to offer $45,000 relief + $25,000 when he heard about it.

    Whatever happens at the Law Society, I'm pretty sure no one will hire Mr Hanam to represent them in future. For $60 he has just bought himself the worst kind of publicity. Who wants a lawyer like that?

    The other parties who will kena are the people in charge of claims settlement and the in-house corporate counsel at NTUC Income. Can you imagine? They didn't control their lawyers properly and allowed a $60 matter to balloon to this! And now NTUC Income has to bear so much legal costs! Even with the damage control effort, how much reputation did NTUC lose? Life is going to be tough for these guys.
    Last edited by waileong; 4th October 2007 at 03:09 PM.

  2. #22

    Default Re: Teacher Jonathan Lock wins appeal

    I think you have to understand the principles of law. If a body has no basis to issue a writ of seizure, then hence it cannot legally do so. These are "technicalities" which may seem trivial and nonsensical to the layman but if they are loopholes in the legal system, then must be fixed.

    It's interesting to note the Court of Appeal spent a lot of time questioning the conduct of the lawyers, how they did not take into account the small amount of the dispute, how they did not take into account their clients' interests and how they wasted legal and judicial resources. From this report, the Court of Appeal did not state that PDRC was a court at the time of the dispute. From earlier threads, I understand they have revised their procedures to have PDRC rulings endorsed by a court so that they can become legally binding. Which means there is an implicit recognition that the high court ruling was correct, that it was not right for a writ of seizure to be issued.

    Quote Originally Posted by ricohflex View Post
    That's the problem.
    Some still insist to look at this only from the legal point of view.

    I think the CA said the PDRC has powers to pass a ruling that is enforceable and the point is not whether PDRC is or is not a court.

    The CA judges were wise enough to look at this from other angles. How can dispute resolution work if after all that,... another judge in a law court is required to pass an enforceable judgement.

    How can a $188 case be allowed to degenerate into a >$100,000 issue?

    I wonder if this case makes some local lawyers look unwholesome and stupid in the eyes of the international law community?

    And the effect on the HC judge?

    Does this leave NTUC looking like a bad overbearing company?
    (it did try damage control -- but too late... maybe it did not control its own lawyer). Now they got to repair their PR image.
    Last edited by waileong; 4th October 2007 at 03:05 PM.

  3. #23
    Moderator ortega's Avatar
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    Default Re: Teacher Jonathan Lock wins appeal

    one man's bravery will benifit everyone in singapore

    3 cheers for JT

  4. #24
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    Default Re: Teacher Jonathan Lock wins appeal

    Quote Originally Posted by waileong View Post
    The other parties who will kena are the people in charge of claims settlement and the in-house corporate counsel at NTUC Income. Can you imagine? They didn't control their lawyers properly and allowed a $60 matter to balloon to this! And now NTUC Income has to bear so much legal costs! Even with the damage control effort, how much reputation did NTUC lose? Life is going to be tough for these guys.
    No bonus, salary increment for the counsel and his bosses for the next 5 yrs.

  5. #25
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    Default Re: Teacher Jonathan Lock wins appeal

    If we look at this from another angle, it's good that JL's ex lawyer did all that, at least for all of us. If not, NTUC would have got away with another case of big bully small. For any one of us, if NTUC threaten to sue in high court and the cost can go up to 5 fig, got case or no case, right or wrong, many of us will just pay NTUC what they demand, and the boss of NTUC will still not know that their lawyers are running around with a loose pistol.

    NTUC, just like the former NKF guy, though that they're big and untouchable so can bully the guy in the street
    I get paid more shooting part time ...... damn, I should find more time to shoot part time

  6. #26
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    Default Re: Teacher Jonathan Lock wins appeal

    come to think of it, I wonder how many other case like this, if there's any other, have NTUC's lawyer got away with.
    I get paid more shooting part time ...... damn, I should find more time to shoot part time

  7. #27
    Senior Member xtemujin's Avatar
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    Arrow Re: Teacher Jonathan Lock wins appeal

    I'm having a hard time following the acronym soup.

  8. #28

    Default Re: Teacher Jonathan Lock wins appeal

    Ahh...

    Clash of egos...

    "Mine's bigger than yours"...

    "Stare what stare - BUAY SONG AH"...

    Classic!

    All power to JL!

    (BTW, anyone out there knows an honest lawyer? )

  9. #29

    Default Re: Teacher Jonathan Lock wins appeal

    Insurance companies fight tooth and nail for every claim, big or small, and have been known to drag claims for years, even if it's a few hundred dollars. It seems like madness, the cost of their claims dept and their lawyers relative to the value of the claims. However, from their point of view, they don't want to make it easy for anyone to claim, regardless of amount, as it could open the floodgates. The logic is, if people knew that claims under $1,000 will always be settled without a fight, then everyone will start claiming under $1,000 and get away with it. It's logical, ifyou look at it that way,

    Quote Originally Posted by yqt View Post
    If we look at this from another angle, it's good that JL's ex lawyer did all that, at least for all of us. If not, NTUC would have got away with another case of big bully small. For any one of us, if NTUC threaten to sue in high court and the cost can go up to 5 fig, got case or no case, right or wrong, many of us will just pay NTUC what they demand, and the boss of NTUC will still not know that their lawyers are running around with a loose pistol.

    NTUC, just like the former NKF guy, though that they're big and untouchable so can bully the guy in the street

  10. #30

    Default Re: Teacher Jonathan Lock wins appeal

    Quote Originally Posted by drakon09 View Post
    Ahh...

    Clash of egos...

    "Mine's bigger than yours"...

    "Stare what stare - BUAY SONG AH"...

    Classic!

    All power to JL!

    (BTW, anyone out there knows an honest lawyer? )
    Thumps up to Mr Lock.

    I know he will win next round again.

  11. #31

    Default Re: Teacher Jonathan Lock wins appeal

    Way to go JL!

    Goes to show big balls prevail over big bucks

  12. #32

    Default Re: Teacher Jonathan Lock wins appeal

    erm......and.....then??

  13. #33

    Default Re: Teacher Jonathan Lock wins appeal

    Quote Originally Posted by ninelives View Post
    erm......and.....then??
    Everyone will look at lawyers differently?

  14. #34
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    Default Re: Teacher Jonathan Lock wins appeal

    Quote Originally Posted by waileong View Post
    Insurance companies fight tooth and nail for every claim, big or small, and have been known to drag claims for years, even if it's a few hundred dollars. It seems like madness, the cost of their claims dept and their lawyers relative to the value of the claims. However, from their point of view, they don't want to make it easy for anyone to claim, regardless of amount, as it could open the floodgates. The logic is, if people knew that claims under $1,000 will always be settled without a fight, then everyone will start claiming under $1,000 and get away with it. It's logical, ifyou look at it that way,
    I won't say it's logical, still sounds more like "big eat small". They always try to tell people, " don't worry, if anything happens, we'll always be there to help you, just give me a call ". What a lot of hogwash!!!
    I get paid more shooting part time ...... damn, I should find more time to shoot part time

  15. #35
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    Default Re: Teacher Jonathan Lock wins appeal

    Quote Originally Posted by drakon09 View Post
    Everyone will look at lawyers differently?
    No, I still look at them the same, with a pinch of salt.
    I get paid more shooting part time ...... damn, I should find more time to shoot part time

  16. #36

    Default Re: Teacher Jonathan Lock wins appeal

    Quote Originally Posted by yqt View Post
    I won't say it's logical, still sounds more like "big eat small". They always try to tell people, " don't worry, if anything happens, we'll always be there to help you, just give me a call ". What a lot of hogwash!!!
    Agree with you.

    Talk is cheap when it doesn't happen to him.

  17. #37

    Default Re: Teacher Jonathan Lock wins appeal

    simple la

    next time drive properly can liao

  18. #38
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    Default Re: Teacher Jonathan Lock wins appeal

    Let me relate this, told to me by my friend:

    Some years back my friend park his car at the side of the road and a public bus crash into his car's rear.
    Went through the same mumbo jumbo to do the insurance claim and got his car repaired.
    Than about 2 mths after the accident, he received a letter from the public bus operator stating that they have been advised by their insurer to claim from HIM the lost of use for the bus due to investigation and repair!!!
    This is after the public bus operator's insurer have admitted that fault is with the bus and have agreed to pay for my friend's car repair!!!

    My friend was so mad that he went to their head office and demanded to see the head of dept. When he saw him he gave him a copy of the letter and told him off and said to him in front of everyone there "you want to claim from me? I'm not going to pay you a single cent!!! Don't think just because you're a big company you can bully me!!!! Sue me!!! I'll see you in court!!!"

    One week later he got a letter from them to apologize for the "leaps in administration"

    Anyone want to guess which Public Bus Operator and who's the Insurer?
    I get paid more shooting part time ...... damn, I should find more time to shoot part time

  19. #39
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    Default Re: Teacher Jonathan Lock wins appeal

    Quote Originally Posted by ortega View Post
    one man's bravery will benifit everyone in singapore

    3 cheers for JT
    bro.. it's JL.. ya gotta be technically correct in this thread.
    “How fortunate for leaders that men do not think.” - Adolf Hitler

  20. #40
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    Default Re: Teacher Jonathan Lock wins appeal

    Quote Originally Posted by yqt View Post
    Let me relate this, told to me by my friend:

    Some years back my friend park his car at the side of the road and a public bus crash into his car's rear.
    Went through the same mumbo jumbo to do the insurance claim and got his car repaired.
    Than about 2 mths after the accident, he received a letter from the public bus operator stating that they have been advised by their insurer to claim from HIM the lost of use for the bus due to investigation and repair!!!
    This is after the public bus operator's insurer have admitted that fault is with the bus and have agreed to pay for my friend's car repair!!!

    My friend was so mad that he went to their head office and demanded to see the head of dept. When he saw him he gave him a copy of the letter and told him off and said to him in front of everyone there "you want to claim from me? I'm not going to pay you a single cent!!! Don't think just because you're a big company you can bully me!!!! Sue me!!! I'll see you in court!!!"

    One week later he got a letter from them to apologize for the "leaps in administration"

    Anyone want to guess which Public Bus Operator and who's the Insurer?
    *RAISE HAND* I know! I know! I know! Can I answer?
    “How fortunate for leaders that men do not think.” - Adolf Hitler

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