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Thread: Reviews of the FZ-18

  1. #41

    Default Re: Reviews of the FZ-18

    Quote Originally Posted by ddwmk2002 View Post
    Actually the pricing not really close. A D40x plus 18-200mm lens plus SB flash will cost you close to 3K. You can buy 5 FZ18 with 3K.
    Dude read the post.....

    Quote Originally Posted by goering View Post
    OK OK I (and many others) know the the prosumer price is so close to the dslr and you have 1001 justifications for the dslr - but ultimately I (and many others) still like the prosumer and much prefer it over the dslr OK?

    Please learn to respect that other people have different views and likes from yours
    Y? run outa ideas to argue? I am not forcing anyone who likes it to switch over or anything. Respect? what respect? youre totaly deviating off from what we are debating about... dun pull this kinda cheap stunt on me dude, it won't work.

    If you like it thats your own business, the main reason i posted if for the guys who can't make up their mind to get this or the Dslr and have a very neutral view on both cameras. I didn't point a gun in your face. The ultimate decision is still up to the guy who is holdin the $$. If you bought the camera already and feel that im insulting it then prove that you made a right choice not pull some cheap stunt like "respect". Im looking from a very neutral point of view as neither do I own a Panasonic or a Nikon so my judgement ain't biased.

    You don't need someone my age to tell you that do you......
    Last edited by Anti-Social; 17th November 2007 at 03:39 PM.

  2. #42

    Default Re: Reviews of the FZ-18

    On the contrary, I disagree that you are presenting a neutral view of the whole matter, Anti-Social.

    First of all, if you are handling things in a neutral way, you do not have to be confrontational to the people who have replied to your postings.

    If you were to tell a person in real life "Y? run outa ideas to argue?", I don't think that person is going to say that you are being 'neutral'

    You should mind the way you have posted in this thread so far. Quite frankly, even DSLR proponents will raise their eyebrows at your replies.

    I would advise you to review your words again, and get your parents or friends to read them and have them critique your words. I guess most of us here have been rather patient (or amused) at your replies so far. Hehe, no cheap tricks here, just honest comment from me :P

    PS. If you are neither a Pana or Nikon user, then what are you?
    Black Rabbit Photography
    DeviantArt | Multiply | Flickr

  3. #43

    Default Re: Reviews of the FZ-18

    Canon

    My comments are neutral for review of both cameras in term of price and functionality and practicality.

    Provoking yes put I get my point across. I can comment on this prosumer and dslr as
    1) I don't own either brands
    2) I owned a similar prosumer before and I still do
    3) I own a Dslr
    So my review is purely neutral. If I feel that the prosumer is superior to that dslr model I will also give good comments on it, but not this one. Price is a very important factor that can make or break a consumer's view on a camera.

    Note: My provocation has no judgement whatsoever on the camera's performance so my judgement is neutral. Now were steering way off course from the threads main purpose arguing over petty things.
    Last edited by Anti-Social; 18th November 2007 at 11:25 AM.

  4. #44

    Default Re: Reviews of the FZ-18

    Actually i find such debate quite constructive. It help folks who are constantly haunted by the question "Shd i stick with prosumer or shd i upgarde to a DSLR".

    Bottomline is, if you are serious in photography and image quality is first pirority, don't buy a prosumer. You will never be satisfy with it's noisy image, low dynamic range, useless high ISO, low speed low details output with present sensor technology.

    On the other hand, if you are crossing into DSLR, be prepared to spend quite a bit on lenses and assy apart from camera body. Carrying quite a lot more of stuff in your outing and constantly having to change lense on the move in return getting better result.

    AS, you are not wrong in your view or else Nikon/Canon/Olympus DSLR division all close shop long time ago. In actually fact, DSLR segment is blooming.

    On the other hand, there are folks who stick to prosumer because of cost. You don't buy much other then the camera itself. Mem card, bags, tripod, converters and filter and that very much all that you can buy. I am asking myself do i have the skill to expolit the full potential if i own a DSLR... The ans is certainly no. So i decided to stick with FZ18 knowing very well it limitations and... Alas... The camera had to live with my limitations too...

  5. #45
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    Default Re: Reviews of the FZ-18

    Quote Originally Posted by ddwmk2002 View Post
    Actually i find such debate quite constructive. It help folks who are constantly haunted by the question "Shd i stick with prosumer or shd i upgarde to a DSLR".

    Bottomline is, if you are serious in photography and image quality is first pirority, don't buy a prosumer. You will never be satisfy with it's noisy image, low dynamic range, useless high ISO, low speed low details output with present sensor technology.

    On the other hand, if you are crossing into DSLR, be prepared to spend quite a bit on lenses and assy apart from camera body. Carrying quite a lot more of stuff in your outing and constantly having to change lense on the move in return getting better result.

    AS, you are not wrong in your view or else Nikon/Canon/Olympus DSLR division all close shop long time ago. In actually fact, DSLR segment is blooming.

    On the other hand, there are folks who stick to prosumer because of cost. You don't buy much other then the camera itself. Mem card, bags, tripod, converters and filter and that very much all that you can buy. I am asking myself do i have the skill to expolit the full potential if i own a DSLR... The ans is certainly no. So i decided to stick with FZ18 knowing very well it limitations and... Alas... The camera had to live with my limitations too...
    well, thats the point, rather than getting dSLR just because the kit set cost only a little more.

  6. #46

    Default Re: Reviews of the FZ-18

    Quote Originally Posted by ExplorerZ View Post
    well, thats the point, rather than getting dSLR just because the kit set cost only a little more.
    You would soon outgrow the prosumer in about 1 year or more so why take the extra step.... Unless youre not serious about photography at all...

  7. #47

    Default Re: Reviews of the FZ-18

    Quote Originally Posted by Anti-Social View Post
    You would soon outgrow the prosumer in about 1 year or more so why take the extra step.... Unless youre not serious about photography at all...
    That's a very general assumption, isn't it?
    Last edited by Hexlord; 20th November 2007 at 07:45 PM.
    Black Rabbit Photography
    DeviantArt | Multiply | Flickr

  8. #48
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    Default Re: Reviews of the FZ-18

    Quote Originally Posted by Anti-Social View Post
    You would soon outgrow the prosumer in about 1 year or more so why take the extra step.... Unless youre not serious about photography at all...
    well so? i haven know afew of the CSer here who are serious in photography (maybe even more than you) and they are still sticking with their prosumer more than their dSLR... because most of the application doesn't require the need of dSLR.
    Its just like having a 8-core macpro, but using it solely for web-browsing.
    and btw did i ever said im using a prosumer right now? and yes, im saying all those based on my experience with dSLR and prosumer.
    Last edited by ExplorerZ; 20th November 2007 at 08:14 PM.

  9. #49

    Default Re: Reviews of the FZ-18

    Quote Originally Posted by ExplorerZ View Post
    well so? i haven know afew of the CSer here who are serious in photography (maybe even more than you) and they are still sticking with their prosumer more than their dSLR... because most of the application doesn't require the need of dSLR.
    Its just like having a 8-core macpro, but using it solely for web-browsing.
    and btw did i ever said im using a prosumer right now? and yes, im saying all those based on my experience with dSLR and prosumer.

    Then prove it, your assumption makes no sense.

    Well then thats your view, since you own a prosumer and dslr i didn't say that your judgement was biased, you said "my" judgement was biased.

  10. #50

    Default Re: Reviews of the FZ-18

    Quote Originally Posted by Hexlord View Post
    That's a very general assumption, isn't it?
    Serious - Move on to dslr why? (more customizable)
    not serious - Stick with current camera or something cheaper (premium price to pay for something so under performing)

    Assumtion? yes but logical thinking

  11. #51
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    Default Re: Reviews of the FZ-18

    Quote Originally Posted by Anti-Social View Post
    Then prove it, your assumption makes no sense.

    Well then thats your view, since you own a prosumer and dslr i didn't say that your judgement was biased, you said "my" judgement was biased.
    did i ever said your judgement is bias? all i said was different cam suit different application and person, and you are the one who keep on arguing why get a prosumer when dSLR cost just a little more?

  12. #52

    Default Re: Reviews of the FZ-18

    Quote Originally Posted by ExplorerZ View Post
    did i ever said your judgement is bias? all i said was different cam suit different application and person, and you are the one who keep on arguing why get a prosumer when dSLR cost just a little more?
    Think that's pretty obvious lar, but apparently AS here still doesn't get it, heh.

    As AS, no.. that's not logical thinking on your part, but your latest reply is again full of assumptions.

    Anyway I just recently saw this thread posted by night86mare which would give the pros and cons of prosumers in a more fair and balanced manner at:

    http://forums.clubsnap.org/showthread.php?t=282608

    AS, you may want to take note of he writes, look at your postings, and think very carefully before you attempt to reply again.

    PS. I would like to apologise to the other readers for this minor matter.
    Black Rabbit Photography
    DeviantArt | Multiply | Flickr

  13. #53

    Default Re: Reviews of the FZ-18

    Dear Anti - Social,

    I have been reading your posts in this thread and it strikes me that you are rather passionate about photography, either that or you really must have the last word on everything. I trust and hope it's the former.

    The choice as you said is in the hands of the person with the money. What substantiates that choice, in almost all cases, is also based on ones understanding, interest level as well as financial capability with regards to the subject matter. There are those who buy the best because they can afford the best but then can't utilize what their money has bought them, simply because they loose interest really fast or that they have no means to realize the items potential. Similarly, there will be those who buy an item which in price and performance is inferior but are able to exploit the item to its optimum. This applies to everything, not just a camera.

    Your opinions on the subject of the FZ-18 against a D40 in terms of performance and value for money are valid, at least, thats my opinion. I am pretty sure that no one has refuted your claims thus far (at least from what I have read in this thread) but have only presented to you justifications of why in their view, the FZ-18 was their choice or at least why a prosumer is considered by many when a choice has to be made during the purchase of a camera. These are valid points too, aren't they?

    As a person who has "been there, done that", I can understand that you feel strongly about biting the bullet and going straight for the DSLR instead of wasting time and money on a "prosumer" that has its limitations in comparison. However you must consider that everyone is different. Everyone has different expectations, needs, requirements and in the case of camera purchase,more than likely different willingness to "invest" in the equipment (not necessarily in this order though). This ties in with the so called "seriousness" one is perceived to have on photography. I agree, if you are "serious" to the point that you must have the tools to capture the best shot at all times, provided that you have the finances, the willingness to carry your equipment around with a grin on your face and most importantly (at least to me) the knowhow/knowledge/skill, then the DSLR is definately the way to go. That's a given AND no one will/has disagree/d on that, but not everyone aspires to be the next Best Photographer of the year.

    As time goes by, be it a month or 1 year or more, the user of the camera (any camera generally) will realize its limitation I believe, realization of the limitations will only come about when the user compares and takes interest to find out how his/her pictures can be better. Naturally what happens then is the question of equipment or knowhow/knowledge/skill. Does one then buy a "better" camera in order to compensate his/her lacking in the other department? Logically not, one would strive to improve first and then consider equipment last. I bet that was what prompted you to get your DSLR too, right? Similarly, most if not all of the "serious" non-DSLR owners are doing the same.

    I am very new in this forum, I joined because I wanted to learn. I had no idea what camera to get and for months I tried to read up on reviews and ask around. In the end I decided for a "prosumer", the FZ-18, knowing that its not the best camera out there but it had the options of manual controls albeit with limitations and it would be a decent stepping stone that determines my level of interest in the future. Each camera has its market segment to satisfy, the PnS for those who want hassle free photo taking, the "prosumer" which offers some functions for those who want to explore more, and the DSLR for the guys who know what they are doing . Everyone in each market segment appreciates nice pictures, the question is how much? Owning a "jack of all trades, master of none" "prosumer" camera is a choice for the person who has the money, remember? However, price is not the only component in the equation, usage and function matter too.

    Lets just enjoy the hobby.

  14. #54

    Default Re: Reviews of the FZ-18

    Quote Originally Posted by kevkie View Post
    Dear Anti - Social,

    I have been reading your posts in this thread and it strikes me that you are rather passionate about photography, either that or you really must have the last word on everything. I trust and hope it's the former.

    The choice as you said is in the hands of the person with the money. What substantiates that choice, in almost all cases, is also based on ones understanding, interest level as well as financial capability with regards to the subject matter. There are those who buy the best because they can afford the best but then can't utilize what their money has bought them, simply because they loose interest really fast or that they have no means to realize the items potential. Similarly, there will be those who buy an item which in price and performance is inferior but are able to exploit the item to its optimum. This applies to everything, not just a camera.

    Your opinions on the subject of the FZ-18 against a D40 in terms of performance and value for money are valid, at least, thats my opinion. I am pretty sure that no one has refuted your claims thus far (at least from what I have read in this thread) but have only presented to you justifications of why in their view, the FZ-18 was their choice or at least why a prosumer is considered by many when a choice has to be made during the purchase of a camera. These are valid points too, aren't they?

    As a person who has "been there, done that", I can understand that you feel strongly about biting the bullet and going straight for the DSLR instead of wasting time and money on a "prosumer" that has its limitations in comparison. However you must consider that everyone is different. Everyone has different expectations, needs, requirements and in the case of camera purchase,more than likely different willingness to "invest" in the equipment (not necessarily in this order though). This ties in with the so called "seriousness" one is perceived to have on photography. I agree, if you are "serious" to the point that you must have the tools to capture the best shot at all times, provided that you have the finances, the willingness to carry your equipment around with a grin on your face and most importantly (at least to me) the knowhow/knowledge/skill, then the DSLR is definately the way to go. That's a given AND no one will/has disagree/d on that, but not everyone aspires to be the next Best Photographer of the year.

    As time goes by, be it a month or 1 year or more, the user of the camera (any camera generally) will realize its limitation I believe, realization of the limitations will only come about when the user compares and takes interest to find out how his/her pictures can be better. Naturally what happens then is the question of equipment or knowhow/knowledge/skill. Does one then buy a "better" camera in order to compensate his/her lacking in the other department? Logically not, one would strive to improve first and then consider equipment last. I bet that was what prompted you to get your DSLR too, right? Similarly, most if not all of the "serious" non-DSLR owners are doing the same.

    I am very new in this forum, I joined because I wanted to learn. I had no idea what camera to get and for months I tried to read up on reviews and ask around. In the end I decided for a "prosumer", the FZ-18, knowing that its not the best camera out there but it had the options of manual controls albeit with limitations and it would be a decent stepping stone that determines my level of interest in the future. Each camera has its market segment to satisfy, the PnS for those who want hassle free photo taking, the "prosumer" which offers some functions for those who want to explore more, and the DSLR for the guys who know what they are doing . Everyone in each market segment appreciates nice pictures, the question is how much? Owning a "jack of all trades, master of none" "prosumer" camera is a choice for the person who has the money, remember? However, price is not the only component in the equation, usage and function matter too.

    Lets just enjoy the hobby.
    Finally someone whom i respect his point of argument my hats off to you ^_^ finally a maturely two sided phrased post.
    I tried bouncing my flash and it broke into 2 pieces... :bheart:
    My Flickr !

  15. #55

    Default Re: Reviews of the FZ-18

    Quote Originally Posted by Hexlord View Post
    Think that's pretty obvious lar, but apparently AS here still doesn't get it, heh.

    As AS, no.. that's not logical thinking on your part, but your latest reply is again full of assumptions.

    Anyway I just recently saw this thread posted by night86mare which would give the pros and cons of prosumers in a more fair and balanced manner at:

    http://forums.clubsnap.org/showthread.php?t=282608

    AS, you may want to take note of he writes, look at your postings, and think very carefully before you attempt to reply again.

    PS. I would like to apologise to the other readers for this minor matter.
    Loop De Loop repetition........
    I tried bouncing my flash and it broke into 2 pieces... :bheart:
    My Flickr !

  16. #56

    Default Re: Reviews of the FZ-18

    Quote Originally Posted by Hexlord View Post
    Think that's pretty obvious lar, but apparently AS here still doesn't get it, heh.

    As AS, no.. that's not logical thinking on your part, but your latest reply is again full of assumptions.
    That is an assumtion by itself.....
    I tried bouncing my flash and it broke into 2 pieces... :bheart:
    My Flickr !

  17. #57

    Default Re: Reviews of the FZ-18

    Quote Originally Posted by kevkie View Post
    Dear Anti - Social,

    I have been reading your posts in this thread and it strikes me that you are rather passionate about photography, either that or you really must have the last word on everything. I trust and hope it's the former.

    The choice as you said is in the hands of the person with the money. What substantiates that choice, in almost all cases, is also based on ones understanding, interest level as well as financial capability with regards to the subject matter. There are those who buy the best because they can afford the best but then can't utilize what their money has bought them, simply because they loose interest really fast or that they have no means to realize the items potential. Similarly, there will be those who buy an item which in price and performance is inferior but are able to exploit the item to its optimum. This applies to everything, not just a camera.

    Your opinions on the subject of the FZ-18 against a D40 in terms of performance and value for money are valid, at least, thats my opinion. I am pretty sure that no one has refuted your claims thus far (at least from what I have read in this thread) but have only presented to you justifications of why in their view, the FZ-18 was their choice or at least why a prosumer is considered by many when a choice has to be made during the purchase of a camera. These are valid points too, aren't they?

    As a person who has "been there, done that", I can understand that you feel strongly about biting the bullet and going straight for the DSLR instead of wasting time and money on a "prosumer" that has its limitations in comparison. However you must consider that everyone is different. Everyone has different expectations, needs, requirements and in the case of camera purchase,more than likely different willingness to "invest" in the equipment (not necessarily in this order though). This ties in with the so called "seriousness" one is perceived to have on photography. I agree, if you are "serious" to the point that you must have the tools to capture the best shot at all times, provided that you have the finances, the willingness to carry your equipment around with a grin on your face and most importantly (at least to me) the knowhow/knowledge/skill, then the DSLR is definately the way to go. That's a given AND no one will/has disagree/d on that, but not everyone aspires to be the next Best Photographer of the year.

    As time goes by, be it a month or 1 year or more, the user of the camera (any camera generally) will realize its limitation I believe, realization of the limitations will only come about when the user compares and takes interest to find out how his/her pictures can be better. Naturally what happens then is the question of equipment or knowhow/knowledge/skill. Does one then buy a "better" camera in order to compensate his/her lacking in the other department? Logically not, one would strive to improve first and then consider equipment last. I bet that was what prompted you to get your DSLR too, right? Similarly, most if not all of the "serious" non-DSLR owners are doing the same.

    I am very new in this forum, I joined because I wanted to learn. I had no idea what camera to get and for months I tried to read up on reviews and ask around. In the end I decided for a "prosumer", the FZ-18, knowing that its not the best camera out there but it had the options of manual controls albeit with limitations and it would be a decent stepping stone that determines my level of interest in the future. Each camera has its market segment to satisfy, the PnS for those who want hassle free photo taking, the "prosumer" which offers some functions for those who want to explore more, and the DSLR for the guys who know what they are doing . Everyone in each market segment appreciates nice pictures, the question is how much? Owning a "jack of all trades, master of none" "prosumer" camera is a choice for the person who has the money, remember? However, price is not the only component in the equation, usage and function matter too.

    Lets just enjoy the hobby.
    Point taken, and greatly appreciate your reply here.

    I had in the past gone through the same path as you, and hopefully you will share more of your photography here

    And yes, I believe that fella really wants to have the last words on everything too!
    Black Rabbit Photography
    DeviantArt | Multiply | Flickr

  18. #58

    Default Re: Reviews of the FZ-18

    Quote Originally Posted by Anti-Social View Post
    Finally someone whom i respect his point of argument my hats off to you ^_^ finally a maturely two sided phrased post.
    Thank you Anti-Social, lets all move on now.

  19. #59

    Default Re: Reviews of the FZ-18

    Quote Originally Posted by Hexlord View Post
    Point taken, and greatly appreciate your reply here.

    I had in the past gone through the same path as you, and hopefully you will share more of your photography here

    And yes, I believe that fella really wants to have the last words on everything too!
    Hi Hexlord, I'm really glad that this forum exists because there is a wealth of information and many friendly and helpful people around that are willing to share thier knowledge. I have been very sceptical about purchasing a camera that has features I dont understand and have no idea how to use but took the plunge after reading up for almost 2 months. Its going to be tough but I'm sure its going to be fun too.

    I will post some pictures, hopefully by this coming weekend as I am planning a short trip up north. I'll experiment with the camera more then and snap away, hopefully with decent results.

  20. #60

    Default Re: Reviews of the FZ-18

    Quote Originally Posted by kevkie View Post
    I am planning a short trip up north. I'll experiment with the camera more then and snap away, hopefully with decent results.
    Try setting EV to -1/3 or -2/3 under bright sunlight. FZ18 had the tendency to overexpose in bright light. Do remember to set it back to neutral under normal shooting.

    Stabilizer most effective on mode 2. Use mode 1 if you have shaky hand and on the long end of the zoom or beyond (digital zoom). Off it when cam on tripod, this help to reduce noise according to some but i have not try it myself.

    Set noise reduction to -2 if you have a good noise removing software else leave it at 0 or 1.

    Switch to I mode under low light when you do not have or cannot use a tripod and not sure what ISO to use. Be careful the camera will auto select a high ISO which result in image that appear ok in the camera playback but grainy when dl and view on pc. (This is the time when i wish for a DSLR...)

    There are lots of discussion on FZ18 in Dpreview Panasonic Talk forum. Do spend some time to read up there it really helps.

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