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Thread: Takedown of hijackers onboard SQ117 highly overrated?

  1. #1
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    Default Takedown of hijackers onboard SQ117 highly overrated?

    I was reading the opening of the army museum and was thinking...

    As title above, what is your opinion? Though it was over within a short period of time, it was that the hijackers were only armed with knives.

    It was a good takedown and serve as a gentle reminder to would be terrorist but is it highly overrated?

  2. #2

    Default Re: Takedown of hijackers onboard SQ117 highly overrated?

    Quote Originally Posted by sprintist View Post
    I was reading the opening of the army museum and was thinking...

    As title above, what is your opinion? Though it was over within a short period of time, it was that the hijackers were only armed with knives.

    It was a good takedown and serve as a gentle reminder to would be terrorist but is it highly overrated?
    Oh that was a good one. All Terrorists with butter knives were gunned down.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Takedown of hijackers onboard SQ117 highly overrated?

    I absolutely love armchair critics.

    We are talking about a life or death situation. The fact that they saved a lot of lives that day seemed to be lost on people who choose to question how highly rated these brave people were.

    If one could, for a moment, imagine the planning and logistics involved, not to mention the fact that these people put their own lives on the line, it would be a sobering reminder of the kind of sacrifices they had to go through.

    Overrated? I hardly think so.

    If you mean the hijackers had to be armed to the teeth and strapped with explosive before one can consider those taking them down to be highly rated, then i rather they not be over rated.

    The price of being highly rated might be too high to pay.

    Can you imagine the heartbreak of the family/spouse/children should anything untoward happened to these people who executed the take down?

  4. #4

    Default Re: Takedown of hijackers onboard SQ117 highly overrated?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfgang View Post
    I absolutely love armchair critics.

    We are talking about a life or death situation. The fact that they saved a lot of lives that day seemed to be lost on people who choose to question how highly rated these brave people were.

    If one could, for a moment, imagine the planning and logistics involved, not to mention the fact that these people put their own lives on the line, it would be a sobering reminder of the kind of sacrifices they had to go through.

    Overrated? I hardly think so.

    If you mean the hijackers had to be armed to the teeth and strapped with explosive before one can consider those taking them down to be highly rated, then i rather they not be over rated.

    The price of being highly rated might be too high to pay.

    Can you imagine the heartbreak of the family/spouse/children should anything untoward happened to these people who executed the take down?
    I don't think any body will argue that every life is precious, whether it's the perpertrator's or the victims', or the rescuers'.

    The point, I believe, the original poster is referring to "equitable force".

    Will you shoot to kill the fellow screaming at you?
    Will you shoot to kill the fellow challenging you to fight while pointing his middle finger between your eyes?
    Will you shoot to kill the fellow wearing (t-shirt and jeans) threatening to blow up a plane holding a butter knife?

    Maybe its because the rescuers do not have sufficient information/confirmation thats why they decided (on the spot, in that split second) to shoot to kill. Tough decision, but someone got to do it.

    Armchair critics (like most if not all Board of Inquiries [after the fact] included) should be and is usually relegated to "if the correct procedures are followed" type of findings.
    CS says, "We can't help you ignore yourself."

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    Default Re: Takedown of hijackers onboard SQ117 highly overrated?

    i believe with knives especially butter knives, there is a better way to subdue them? the surprise assault coupled with their black suits will instill the intended terror and element of surprise on the terrorist back then not mentioning today's terrorists are much worse and way off the track of sanity.

    if they could be arrested and lives lost that would be good too yes?
    the psychological impact of the hostges having to see blood spilled and brains shot off could be much worse too..

    i really admire the efficiency of the commandos but still, killing men with butter knives leaves me ticking something could be done better by apprehending them alive.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Takedown of hijackers onboard SQ117 highly overrated?

    Looks like another dumb suggestion.

    You will have to go back a couple of years to the WTC incident to understand that any hijacking using butter knives, box-cutter knives, mace spray and what have you creates a situation that is dangerous.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Takedown of hijackers onboard SQ117 highly overrated?

    And how would our boys know that they were only armed with knives?

    What if they had things that go boom?

    It is easy in retrospect, but a hell lot more difficult in a real situation.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Takedown of hijackers onboard SQ117 highly overrated?

    Anyone who has knowledge of the SOP for the police when faced in similar "hijack" scenarios?

    We should look at the intentions and objective of the responses to those specific actions.

    Questioning the actions of professionals should be done by their peers.
    CS says, "We can't help you ignore yourself."

  9. #9

    Default Re: Takedown of hijackers onboard SQ117 highly overrated?

    Quote Originally Posted by Caspere View Post
    Anyone who has knowledge of the SOP for the police when faced in similar "hijack" scenarios?

    We should look at the intentions and objective of the responses to those specific actions.

    Questioning the actions of professionals should be done by their peers.

    You don't even need to go that far.

    Just remember the ROE for vital installation security and extrapolate from there.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Takedown of hijackers onboard SQ117 highly overrated?

    Dont flame me, just recalling what I heard from rumour grapevine soon after the incident. The rumour was that the orders were shoot to kill and to take no survivors. Reasoning being our government didnt want to keep any prisoners in case the terrorist's comrades decided to hijack another plane to ask for a prisoner for hostage exchange. Rumour has it that the last surviving terrorist was actually "executed" after he had surrendered in the toliet of the plane.

    It was not a matter of butter knives or guns, rather it was a warning that if you hijack a Singapore plane... there is no negoiation, only death.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Takedown of hijackers onboard SQ117 highly overrated?

    Quote Originally Posted by aeskywan View Post
    Dont flame me, just recalling what I heard from rumour grapevine soon after the incident. The rumour was that the orders were shoot to kill and to take no survivors. Reasoning being our government didnt want to keep any prisoners in case the terrorist's comrades decided to hijack another plane to ask for a prisoner for hostage exchange. Rumour has it that the last surviving terrorist was actually "executed" after he had surrendered in the toliet of the plane.

    It was not a matter of butter knives or guns, rather it was a warning that if you hijack a Singapore plane... there is no negoiation, only death.

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    Default Re: Takedown of hijackers onboard SQ117 highly overrated?

    Quote Originally Posted by aeskywan View Post
    Dont flame me, just recalling what I heard from rumour grapevine soon after the incident. The rumour was that the orders were shoot to kill and to take no survivors. Reasoning being our government didnt want to keep any prisoners in case the terrorist's comrades decided to hijack another plane to ask for a prisoner for hostage exchange. Rumour has it that the last surviving terrorist was actually "executed" after he had surrendered in the toliet of the plane.

    It was not a matter of butter knives or guns, rather it was a warning that if you hijack a Singapore plane... there is no negoiation, only death.
    know then i know singapore so fierce..

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    Default Re: Takedown of hijackers onboard SQ117 highly overrated?

    Quote Originally Posted by sprintist View Post
    i believe with knives especially butter knives, there is a better way to subdue them? the surprise assault coupled with their black suits will instill the intended terror and element of surprise on the terrorist back then not mentioning today's terrorists are much worse and way off the track of sanity.

    if they could be arrested and lives lost that would be good too yes?
    the psychological impact of the hostges having to see blood spilled and brains shot off could be much worse too..

    i really admire the efficiency of the commandos but still, killing men with butter knives leaves me ticking something could be done better by apprehending them alive.
    Again, do you have credible intelligence that they were armed with nothing but butter knives at that point in time? If you remember the incident, you would know that the hijackers claimed that they had bombs on them as well.

    Again, to reiterate, one can sit comfortably in his chair in front of his computer and of course, with the advantage of hindsight (which is often 20/20), state his point of views.

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    Default Re: Takedown of hijackers onboard SQ117 highly overrated?

    i served in a unit directly under a commander who was involved in the rescue, my ex-neighbour served in a unit where the rSM played a part in the rescue. lots of stories, direct accounts maybe. :P heh.. first two men in the leading the storming of the plane.

    all the little details is probably classified.. else i got some stories to tell..
    but it was then when the hijackers probably had threatened to kill the passengers where by perhaps by ROE they should not be spared and taken as hostages in a situation like this

    http://infopedia.nlb.gov.sg/articles...004-12-30.html for some info
    Last edited by psychobiologist; 27th September 2007 at 06:20 PM.
    chezburgr i can haz?

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    Default Re: Takedown of hijackers onboard SQ117 highly overrated?

    Meanwhile, I would remind anyone else who wish to share, speculate or even disclosed operationally sensitive details be warned that this will not be condoned here in CS.

    Should anyone be deemed to have overstepped the boundaries, I would immediately suspend the account involved. I do not take matters of national security lightly and neither should anyone.

    Thank you.

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    Default Re: Takedown of hijackers onboard SQ117 highly overrated?

    Quote Originally Posted by sprintist View Post
    I was reading the opening of the army museum and was thinking...

    As title above, what is your opinion? Though it was over within a short period of time, it was that the hijackers were only armed with knives.

    It was a good takedown and serve as a gentle reminder to would be terrorist but is it highly overrated?
    info that was released to the media/public, was that the hijackers were armed with explosives and knifes.

    if you were to google or look for information all around, there will be many different warped versions of stories, sensationalized.

    remember that the plane wasnt stomped.. i mean.. stormed at the earliest opportunity upon refilling, but it was, when the hijackers pressed for their demands with the intent to kill hostages that this had to be done.

    by rules of engagement, killer intent justifies the use of lethal force.
    chezburgr i can haz?

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    Default Re: Takedown of hijackers onboard SQ117 highly overrated?

    Quote Originally Posted by psychobiologist View Post
    info that was released to the media/public, was that the hijackers were armed with explosives and knifes.

    if you were to google or look for information all around, there will be many different warped versions of stories, sensationalized.

    remember that the plane wasnt stomped.. i mean.. stormed at the earliest opportunity upon refilling, but it was, when the hijackers pressed for their demands with the intent to kill hostages that this had to be done.

    by rules of engagement, killer intent justifies the use of lethal force.
    actually yes the last sentence makes sense but justifying doesn't necessary mean need to. if possible, to apprehend them if you can overcome.

    perhaps the scene that was never disclosed on the plane, that we will never see with our own eyes except the operatives, we cannever justify then...

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    Default Re: Takedown of hijackers onboard SQ117 highly overrated?

    Excessive force?

    I hardly think that is the case.

    The very concept of hijacking means that they are holding over a hundred people's lives at ransom to demand for something in return. It doesn't matter that they only had knives, they wanted the world to believe they had more than that. And so our forces responded with the appropriate amount of violence.

    In such a situation where the soldier has to determine "friend or foe" for an unspecified number of hostiles, I find it nothing short of miraculous that there were no friendly or collateral fatalities.

    The thing about being in the military is that you always have a contingency plan - for the worst possible case conceivable. You don't go storming into a hijacked airliner thinking "oh, they'll cower at the sight of us and our MP5s and we can all be home in time for dinner at the mess."

    Its a life and death situation. If you were in a life and death situation, I am sure YOU would leave nothing to chance if it was your life on the line.

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    Default Re: Takedown of hijackers onboard SQ117 highly overrated?

    Quite simply, once you commit an act of hostage taking, you have forfeited your right to a happy ending, and rightfully so. Just do a quick Google search on airplane hijacks. How many of those have ended badly with tragic consequences for innocent passengers? If you were a hostage on that plane, with your loved ones, would you not desire for a quick and safe resolution for yourself?

    It is regrettable that the hijackers had to perish, but they are 100% responsible for their own demise. If they had surrendered peacefully, or better yet, not committed the hijack in the first place, none of these would have happened.

    Overhyped? A hijack is a hijack is a hijack. And this was a successful hijack recovery operation, as opposed to the many botched ones. Nuff said.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Takedown of hijackers onboard SQ117 highly overrated?

    One of the hijackers said, "I promise you I will free every child, woman and man, but if you make trouble, I'll make trouble."

    After eight hours of negotiations, they started to douse the floor and seats of the plane with liquor with the intention to ignite it, as well as issuing a five-minute deadline threatening to kill the hostages every 10 minutes if their demands were not met.

    It is no longer a butter or kaya knives issue, but the lives of more than 100 hostages on board the plane.

    The exact rescue details will not be disclosed as the then Second Defence Minister, Dr Yeo Ning Hong said the government will not discuss the operational procedures.

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