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Thread: OT discussion from Antoniette.2 thread

  1. #21

    Default Re: Antoniette.2

    Quote Originally Posted by garou12 View Post
    so why then didn't he say that? What's interesting right now is that he is not the one saying anything to defend himself or clear up the air and you're the one doing all the debating that he should be doing. Don't you think he should be the one to explain himself? This is your faux pas to fix. It's his.
    It's 2:11 am. He's probably asleep! I'm going too. Tata.

    PS I do hope you'll have an answer to the question which I've asked you several times when I wake up. Namely, how does holding on to a dated world view make a person a bigot or a racist? Must clarify that the world view referred to is not specifically negative (ie eg that blacks are lazy bums), just one which has not kept up with the times (that France is white).
    Last edited by waileong; 25th September 2007 at 02:11 AM.

  2. #22

    Default Re: Antoniette.2

    Quote Originally Posted by waileong View Post
    Because I am me and he is he. Some people do think France is white, and a name like Antoniette refers to a white French woman. I ask again: why is that racist or bigoted? You've agreed that he has a dated world view. Does dated world view = racist, bigoted?
    It is if it leads to someone made comments that come off as discriminatory. If someone used the n word to describe her even though he doesn't mean it in a racist or bigoted way and he clearly isn't a racist as explained by a total stranger who knows nothing about him. How do you think it'll be interpreted by other people who don't know anything about him?

  3. #23

    Default Re: Antoniette.2

    i don't really think he was being racist, naivete is nothing to do with being racist or being bigoted
    now, if he was being racist, he might have said something much sillier
    but he just mentioned that he expected "a french babe"

    so tell me, all the people who criticize him, when you say "singaporean babe"
    what is the first and foremost that comes to mind, be honest
    it is either your own race, or the chinese, i suppose, because it is majority
    now, there are say, arabs in singapore, is it derogatory to say that because i didn't think of arab girl when i say "singapore babe" it means that there are no arabs in singapore in my book?

    NO, it is simply an expectation, there is nothing wrong with that, just like if i clicked on a p&p thread saying "jing xuan"
    i would expect a chinese girl, but can you say there are no non-chinese with a chinese name? yes there are

    let's leave it at that, racism is something much uglier than just plain insensitivity and passing comment, no need to nitpick on everybody's words
    just to start some silly flame war

    to me, this reminds me of those movies
    the countryside, you know
    where when the farmers see a cow with one more udder
    they will just blow it up until they end up worshipping the cow or something

    quick, call me bigoted for saying that farmers worship cows eventually, shrug
    to me, nothing wrong with worshipping cows either, much better than worshipping lens and camera bodies like some people here do (without knowing it, either)

    in short, this is nothing more than just like the child who does not know
    not knowing is bad, yes, but it doesn't warrant such harsh comments
    if i had lack of knowledge, it is not the same as professed, opionated knowledge that i construct out of thin air on my own
    that would be racism, the prior example is simply ignorance
    Last edited by night86mare; 25th September 2007 at 02:32 AM.

  4. #24

    Default Re: Antoniette.2

    just fyi, these are using image google, search french girl, with safesearch on, because the first search i did safesearch was off and then too many undesirables

    after 4 pages, that's about 18 photos each page, the top 72 photos which google gives you are all white females, if there is a real photo there

    go figure, are you going to say that google is bigoted? or hey, do a web movement that forces google to display non-white females as its top hits in photos

    page 1



    page 2



    page 3



    page 4


    i hope i prove my point here

    [edit]
    to be fair, i did one image google search with safesearch OFF, only 1 photo on the first page would have looked something like what the girl in the pictures in the thread which has created so much hoo ha looks like, and it is a nude painting apparently
    Last edited by night86mare; 25th September 2007 at 02:44 AM.

  5. #25

    Default Re: OT discussion from Antoniette.2 thread

    guys, chill out.

    not everyone is so well-informed.
    I think many people would be surprised also when they step into paris and find out that there are so many non-whites in Paris (from their old colonies...)
    the same way that people come to Singapore and are surprised that we speak pretty good english.

    Inform, don't crucify.

  6. #26

    Default Re: Antoniette.2

    Quote Originally Posted by garou12 View Post
    It is if it leads to someone made comments that come off as discriminatory. If someone used the n word to describe her even though he doesn't mean it in a racist or bigoted way and he clearly isn't a racist as explained by a total stranger who knows nothing about him. How do you think it'll be interpreted by other people who don't know anything about him?
    We're not talking "if", we're not talking what could happen. We are talking only about what has happened, what he has done. Either the words he used so far were racist, or they were not. Which is which?

    He said he expected a "French babe", presumably a white one.

    For that you condemn him as a racist, a bigot.

    Looking at the flow of discussion here, I think only you and DP think that way.

    The logic doesn't hold for the rest of us. He has not made any derogatory remarks against someone from another race. Not for the majority of people following this thread.

    If this was a court case, and I was his lawyer, I would submit that you have not even made out a prima facie case, hence I wouldn't even bother to put up a defence.

    You wanted to know why I am here defending him? Because I believe there are times PC can be stretched too far, and this is one of those times. Those who are PC want others to be PC so badly they'll point to anything they can as "racist".
    Last edited by waileong; 25th September 2007 at 07:30 AM.

  7. #27
    Senior Member Sion's Avatar
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    Default Re: Antoniette.2

    Quote Originally Posted by night86mare View Post
    just fyi, these are using image google, search french girl, with safesearch on, because the first search i did safesearch was off and then too many undesirables

    after 4 pages, that's about 18 photos each page, the top 72 photos which google gives you are all white females, if there is a real photo there

    go figure, are you going to say that google is bigoted? or hey, do a web movement that forces google to display non-white females as its top hits in photos

    page 1


    i hope i prove my point here
    Okay, okay, okay. You've proven your point loud and clear:


  8. #28

    Default Re: OT discussion from Antoniette.2 thread

    Quote Originally Posted by mattlock View Post
    guys, chill out.

    not everyone is so well-informed.
    I think many people would be surprised also when they step into paris and find out that there are so many non-whites in Paris (from their old colonies...)
    the same way that people come to Singapore and are surprised that we speak pretty good english.

    Inform, don't crucify.
    Agree. I suggest all of you take the Eurostar from Waterloo (UK) to Gare du Nord (Paris). Have a look around the station and you will see what a cosmopolitan city is. The French-Indians, the French-Middle Easterners, and the French-Africans all speak English and French. ^^

  9. #29
    Senior Member azul123's Avatar
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    Default Re: OT discussion from Antoniette.2 thread

    Whilst I applaud the fiercely defense against racism, I do not think his post was directed at it... maybe wrong choice of words.

    Walau, internet is really slow at departure gate.

    ../azul123

  10. #30
    Senior Member azul123's Avatar
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    Default Re: Antoniette.2

    Quote Originally Posted by Sion View Post
    Okay, okay, okay. You've proven your point loud and clear:

    What was your intent on showing women in veils? anything French related? this is Muslims related why post these photos?

    ../azul123

  11. #31

    Default Re: Antoniette.2

    Quote Originally Posted by azul123 View Post
    What was your intent on showing women in veils? anything French related? this is Muslims related why post these photos?

    ../azul123
    azul -

    that's sion in a veil

    relax

  12. #32
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    Default Re: Antoniette.2

    Sheesh...and I thought that Thierry Henry, Patrick Vierra and David Trezeguet were whites....am I supposed to be disappointed or what?

    But seriously, I don't think littlejet was being rascist or stereotypical. He was just making an instinctive comment about what he expected to see when he read the title. It'll be entirely different if he had made a statement similar to mine made above, if he saw the pics. Of course, my above statement is made tongue in cheek...:P

  13. #33
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    Default Re: Antoniette.2

    Quote Originally Posted by hobbit6003 View Post
    Sheesh...and I thought that Thierry Henry, Patrick Vierra and David Trezeguet were whites....am I supposed to be disappointed or what?

    But seriously, I don't think littlejet was being rascist or stereotypical. He was just making an instinctive comment about what he expected to see when he read the title. It'll be entirely different if he had made a statement similar to mine made above, if he saw the pics. Of course, my above statement is made tongue in cheek...:P
    heheh, well, what color do you think a hobbit is? definitely not yellow, cos in the LOTR movie, haven seen a black, yellow, or other colored hobbit...

    same goes for any other names... doesn't mean having an christian name made them a white or something... just another tongue in cheek too...

    just enjoy the pics, and lets move on...
    Logging Off. "You have 2,631 messages stored, of a total 400 allowed." don't PM me.

  14. #34
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    Default Re: Antoniette.2

    Quote Originally Posted by Del_CtrlnoAlt View Post
    heheh, well, what color do you think a hobbit is? definitely not yellow, cos in the LOTR movie, haven seen a black, yellow, or other colored hobbit...

    same goes for any other names... doesn't mean having an christian name made them a white or something... just another tongue in cheek too...

    just enjoy the pics, and lets move on...

    Haha, you are right my friend, let's move on....

  15. #35

    Default Re: Antoniette.2

    Quote Originally Posted by waileong View Post
    We're not talking "if", we're not talking what could happen. We are talking only about what has happened, what he has done. Either the words he used so far were racist, or they were not. Which is which?

    He said he expected a "French babe", presumably a white one.

    For that you condemn him as a racist, a bigot.


    Looking at the flow of discussion here, I think only you and DP think that way.

    The logic doesn't hold for the rest of us. He has not made any derogatory remarks against someone from another race. Not for the majority of people following this thread.

    If this was a court case, and I was his lawyer, I would submit that you have not even made out a prima facie case, hence I wouldn't even bother to put up a defence.

    You wanted to know why I am here defending him? Because I believe there are times PC can be stretched too far, and this is one of those times. Those who are PC want others to be PC so badly they'll point to anything they can as "racist".
    I really do not care what other people think, if I believe it is the right thing, I will do it. As all of you know, I can be as blunt as anyone here.

    Racism and bigotry cannot be tolerated, especially in public. Weileong and others will claim political correctness running amok, but I disagree. We cannot allow the ugly heads of racism and bigotry to have a foot hold anywhere in our society. We cannot simply wipe off racist remarks by claiming that the person is merely naive, ill informed, incensitive or even prejudice. But a racist remark is a racist remark. Some are worse, but they are still racist.

    For this instance, when seeing a french name, Antoniette, and on seeing an African woman, proclaimed surprise because Antoniette is a French name and French is supposed to be white, in my book that is racism.

    How bad is this transgression? Personally, I don't feel it is to the point of a capital crime, but still it's racism and bigotry. Maybe, the person in question is naive, ill informed or even incensitive. I will give him the benefit of the doubt, but a more serious question arises, why are everyone like Weileong rushing to defend him?
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  16. #36
    Moderator ortega's Avatar
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    Default Re: Antoniette.2

    and i suppose everyone thinks i'm spanish?

  17. #37
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    Default Re: Antoniette.2

    Quote Originally Posted by ortega View Post
    and i suppose everyone thinks i'm spanish?
    MAXIMUS!!!
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  18. #38
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    Default Re: Antoniette.2

    Quote Originally Posted by azul123 View Post
    What was your intent on showing women in veils? anything French related? this is Muslims related why post these photos?

    ../azul123
    that is a spoof of the afghan girl (self portrait)

  19. #39
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    Default Re: Antoniette.2

    Quote Originally Posted by ortega View Post
    and i suppose everyone thinks i'm spanish?
    Sorry, I always thought that you were an Argentine.....no?

  20. #40
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    Default Re: Antoniette.2

    Quote Originally Posted by Del_CtrlnoAlt View Post
    MAXIMUS!!!
    perdóneme, si mi nombre le engaña

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