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Thread: Singapore anime figurine protesters meet real police

  1. #41

    Default Re: Singapore anime figurine protesters meet real police

    Quote Originally Posted by waileong View Post
    Freedom of assembly is in our Constitution. It is also in the UN Declaration of Human Rights of which Singapore is a signatory.

    Technically, what is legal or illegal isn't up to the "Govt". You should know something about democracy. There is supposed to be separation of the legislature, executive and judiciary. In other words, Parliament (which is elected by and represents the people) defines what is legal, and an independent judiciary interprets the laws impartially. The govt can only enforce and prosecute according to the powers they have been given, but they cannot say what is "legal", it's up to the courts to say what is legal. This is why in real democracies, people sometimes take the govt to court and win when the courts declare the govt's actions illegal because they've exceeded the powers given to them under the law.

    This is something so foreign to S'poreans, who fervently believe that the judiciary is part of the govt and that the govt is the one which has the last say on what is legal and what is illegal.
    Hmmm... separation of power is for demoncratic nation. But I thought we are a Neo Communist State with a state controlled election.

  2. #42

    Default Re: Singapore anime figurine protesters meet real police

    from personal experience I can tell you that I would trust an American to stand up for a cause we both believe in with me even in the face of adversity, whereas I would expect a Singaporean to require much convincing, and even after that back out in the end citing responsibilities and discomfort and fear.

    I find it ironic that of all things to get riled up enough to protest about, it would be about anime downloading.

  3. #43

    Default Re: Singapore anime figurine protesters meet real police

    Quote Originally Posted by waileong View Post
    I agree, but to me it's not just about checks and balances. Even if there was no opposition, one expects basic human rights such as freedom of speech, assembly, press, right to open trial, etc. to be in place.

    But I ask again, to return to the topic, how many people here believe the police actions were commensurate with the event involved?
    If Saddam can order his troops to invade Kuwait just to keep his army occupied, Why can't our A-Star Scholars turn out the Riot squad out of boredom?

    Still remember how much resources our police force used just to track down who planted the White Elephant placate. At that time JI threats was at its height. Next day, we know Mr Too walked across to JB without any hassles.

  4. #44
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    Default Re: Singapore anime figurine protesters meet real police

    Quote Originally Posted by waileong View Post
    You're right that it's a proclamation. But it is linked to the UN Charter, which binds all UN members. You should be aware of how and why the UN was created after World War II. And that one of the purposes of the UN is "promoting and encouraging respect for human rights and for fundamental freedoms for all without distinction as to race, sex, language, or religion."
    You're right about encouraging and promoting. But it is, by the UN's own admission, not legally binding. If it was, virtually every nation (not only Singapore) had multiple major compliance problem.

    There are two main treaties that are based on the ideas of the declaration of human rights. Singapore is one of a handful of nations which subscribes to neither.
    Last edited by LittleWolf; 8th September 2007 at 11:39 PM.

  5. #45

    Default Re: Singapore anime figurine protesters meet real police

    Quote Originally Posted by adamadam View Post
    The police should bring their police-figurines to play too!


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  6. #46

    Default Re: Singapore anime figurine protesters meet real police

    Quote Originally Posted by mattlock View Post
    Frankly you have to hand it to these kids, they actually took some symbolic action over the Odex issue instead of stretching out a long winded CS thread.
    I tot even bitching around forums are pretty symbolic too... do you think the judgement for pacnet is not influenced by those "discussions" and articles?

    That the kids did are just something out of the norm, when that become a norm that someone might proceed to the "next level" of "peaceful" protest, and the cycle goes on... so when would it become a riot and not a demostration... ref korea a couple of years back.
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  7. #47
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    Default Re: Singapore anime figurine protesters meet real police

    not every single demonstration is destructive, and indeed there are peaceful ones. the question is whether the population has matured enough to not to resort to violent means, this question itself is complicated enough. the last riots singapore saw were some 40 years back, those who experienced them probably have more realistic views about the issue.

    but seriously, i don't even know whether the population itself can stand a real strike or care enough to do one, you just need a big fireworks event and people are whining and complaining about road blockages already.

  8. #48

    Default Re: Singapore anime figurine protesters meet real police

    Quote Originally Posted by eikin View Post
    not every single demonstration is destructive, and indeed there are peaceful ones. the question is whether the population has matured enough to not to resort to violent means, this question itself is complicated enough. the last riots singapore saw were some 40 years back, those who experienced them probably have more realistic views about the issue.

    but seriously, i don't even know whether the population itself can stand a real strike or care enough to do one, you just need a big fireworks event and people are whining and complaining about road blockages already.
    Even for a matured population, its hard to avoid violence (though unintended) especially when protesters are passionately and emotionally charged in their beliefs, which is why they choose to stand out to make a statement to voice their opinions. Sometimes it can be provoked by accident (from either side) or by certain black sheep who believes in advancing their cause (be it the community or personal) via inciting violence.

    I agree with you and think that our population has probably gone a little too soft in go thru a real strike. They have too much to lose and would not want to risk it.

  9. #49

    Default Re: Singapore anime figurine protesters meet real police

    Quote Originally Posted by waileong View Post
    Technically, what is legal or illegal isn't up to the "Govt". You should know something about democracy. There is supposed to be separation of the legislature, executive and judiciary. In other words, Parliament (which is elected by and represents the people) defines what is legal, and an independent judiciary interprets the laws impartially. The govt can only enforce and prosecute according to the powers they have been given, but they cannot say what is "legal", it's up to the courts to say what is legal. This is why in real democracies, people sometimes take the govt to court and win when the courts declare the govt's actions illegal because they've exceeded the powers given to them under the law.

    This is something so foreign to S'poreans, who fervently believe that the judiciary is part of the govt and that the govt is the one which has the last say on what is legal and what is illegal.
    So you think this country should simply just model after the systems adopted by the other nations and everything will work out fine here? Apparently there are pros and cons to every system of governance.

  10. #50

    Default Re: Singapore anime figurine protesters meet real police

    Quote Originally Posted by snowspeeder View Post
    So you think this country should simply just model after the systems adopted by the other nations and everything will work out fine here? Apparently there are pros and cons to every system of governance.
    Yes. At least these other countries have hundreds of years of legal history and democracy to show the strength of their systems. The tradeoffs are well-known.

    What makes you think that the current system is right for us?
    Last edited by waileong; 9th September 2007 at 06:19 PM.

  11. #51

    Default Re: Singapore anime figurine protesters meet real police

    I don't think it's related to the maturity of a population. Are you saying S'poreans are less mature than HK-ers, for instance? How do you scientifically measure the "maturity" of a population-- take an IQ average? Is there an internationally accepted yardstick for population maturity where one can say that, less than X, the population is not mature enough to allow for freedom of assembly?

    That is such a convenient excuse to use as a cover-up for the real reasons.

    Quote Originally Posted by snowspeeder View Post
    Even for a matured population, its hard to avoid violence (though unintended) especially when protesters are passionately and emotionally charged in their beliefs, which is why they choose to stand out to make a statement to voice their opinions. Sometimes it can be provoked by accident (from either side) or by certain black sheep who believes in advancing their cause (be it the community or personal) via inciting violence.

    I agree with you and think that our population has probably gone a little too soft in go thru a real strike. They have too much to lose and would not want to risk it.
    Last edited by waileong; 9th September 2007 at 06:17 PM.

  12. #52

    Default Re: Singapore anime figurine protesters meet real police

    Quote Originally Posted by waileong View Post
    Yes. At least these other countries have hundreds of years of legal history and democracy to show the strength of their systems.
    It's only a matter of perspective. There are others who would believe that it won't work just as you perceive as it will. But at the end of the day, I doubt anyone in SG would have the boldness to stand out to demand for an immediate change of the way things are now. So the bottom line given the state of things, is that, SG is a place for those who can adapt to the conditions and circumstances it presents. The other option is to settle down elsewhere.

  13. #53

    Default Re: Singapore anime figurine protesters meet real police

    Quote Originally Posted by waileong View Post
    I don't think it's related to the maturity of a population. Are you saying S'poreans are less mature than HK-ers, for instance? How do you scientifically measure the "maturity" of a population-- take an IQ average? That is such a convenient excuse to use as a cover-up for the real reasons.
    No I'm afraid it can't be measured. We've seen lots of peaceful demos in HK on TV. What about those that shows HK police's zero tolerance towards emotionally charged demonstrators who refuse to cooperate? Have you seen those on tape?

  14. #54

    Default Re: Singapore anime figurine protesters meet real police

    Quote Originally Posted by snowspeeder View Post
    It's only a matter of perspective. There are others who would believe that it won't work just as you perceive as it will. But at the end of the day, I doubt anyone in SG would have the boldness to stand out to demand for an immediate change of the way things are now. So the bottom line given the state of things, is that, SG is a place for those who can adapt to the conditions and circumstances it presents. The other option is to settle down elsewhere.
    1. I agree about settling elsewhere.

    2. I disagree about the lack of bold people. JBJ, CSJ are just two living examples.

  15. #55

    Default Re: Singapore anime figurine protesters meet real police

    Quote Originally Posted by waileong View Post
    1. I agree about settling elsewhere.

    2. I disagree about the lack of bold people. JBJ, CSJ are just two living examples.
    A few good men?

  16. #56

    Default Re: Singapore anime figurine protesters meet real police

    Quote Originally Posted by snowspeeder View Post
    No I'm afraid it can't be measured. We've seen lots of peaceful demos in HK on TV. What about those that shows HK police's zero tolerance towards emotionally charged demonstrators who refuse to cooperate? Have you seen those on tape?
    Not sure if I have. But I've seen the violent Seattle WTO demos. That doesn't change the fundamental principle on freedom of assembly.

  17. #57

    Default Re: Singapore anime figurine protesters meet real police

    Quote Originally Posted by waileong View Post

    2. I disagree about the lack of bold people. JBJ, CSJ are just two living examples.
    I disagree that they are bold. More leaned to irrational.
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