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Thread: Singapore anime figurine protesters meet real police

  1. #21

    Default Re: Singapore anime figurine protesters meet real police

    Quote Originally Posted by waileong View Post
    By definition, strikes are part of workers' rights and demos are part of the freedom of assembly. As long as they are peaceful, not violent, they are legal.
    That depends on which country or rather govt's definition isn't it?

  2. #22

    Default Re: Singapore anime figurine protesters meet real police

    Quote Originally Posted by waileong View Post
    You get used to it. Eventually.

    Just like S'poreans have gotten used to "restrictions" and now some of them even argue and believe that such "restrictions" are good.

    Aiyah, these people want to protest and strike, go to St John's Island to strike or something.

    Think about someone jumping in front of a speeding MRT train - and jams up that whole line for two hours.

    You simply do not inconvenience the general public just to support the narrow causes of a small group of people.

    And why do you even want to "get used to strikes"? Most Singaporeans already go stark raving mad in traffic jams.

  3. #23
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    Default Re: Singapore anime figurine protesters meet real police

    Quote Originally Posted by aeskywan View Post
    yes well organised to the point the whole of London shuts down cos people can't get to work. Will you still be so vocal if it was Singapore and you cant get to work?
    aiyah, people see other people have they also want mah, everyone's like that sometimes

  4. #24

    Default Re: Singapore anime figurine protesters meet real police

    Quote Originally Posted by eikin View Post
    aiyah, people see other people have they also want mah, everyone's like that sometimes
    Come to think about it... good excuse to tuang off work hor...

  5. #25
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    Default Re: Singapore anime figurine protesters meet real police

    Quote Originally Posted by drakon09 View Post
    Come to think about it... good excuse to tuang off work hor...
    tuang off work? wait you kena recall then you know ah

  6. #26

    Default Re: Singapore anime figurine protesters meet real police

    Quote Originally Posted by eikin View Post
    tuang off work? wait you kena recall then you know ah


    Kena recall and kena issue with baton and wicker shield.

  7. #27

    Default Re: Singapore anime figurine protesters meet real police

    Quote Originally Posted by snowspeeder View Post
    That depends on which country or rather govt's definition isn't it?
    Freedom of assembly is in our Constitution. It is also in the UN Declaration of Human Rights of which Singapore is a signatory.

    Technically, what is legal or illegal isn't up to the "Govt". You should know something about democracy. There is supposed to be separation of the legislature, executive and judiciary. In other words, Parliament (which is elected by and represents the people) defines what is legal, and an independent judiciary interprets the laws impartially. The govt can only enforce and prosecute according to the powers they have been given, but they cannot say what is "legal", it's up to the courts to say what is legal. This is why in real democracies, people sometimes take the govt to court and win when the courts declare the govt's actions illegal because they've exceeded the powers given to them under the law.

    This is something so foreign to S'poreans, who fervently believe that the judiciary is part of the govt and that the govt is the one which has the last say on what is legal and what is illegal.
    Last edited by waileong; 8th September 2007 at 08:06 PM.

  8. #28

    Default Re: Singapore anime figurine protesters meet real police

    This is not about jumping in front of a train.

    We love to compare ourselves with Hong Kong. Well, Hong Kong has lots of demos. The Basic Law guarantees it. Have they lost out to us because of this? Frankly, we are still trying to catch up to Hong Kong in many areas.

    Certain things are part of human rights, eg. the right to send/receive mail privately. Just because there are terrorists doesn't mean that the govt can read/open everyone's mail. Even if it means that in some cases, the govt might not be able to stop a terrorist plot in time, it doesn't give them the right to violate the human rights of the population at large. That's why there's such a big hullabaloo over what the CIA did in the US when they did wiretapping, for example. Because the govt exceeded its legal powers, ie it tapped phone conversations without getting a court order.

    It's not about me wanting or not wanting to get used to "strikes". But there is a fundamental right of workers to organise into unions and to engage in certain activities during an industrial dispute.

    No one strikes for the fun of it. But if strikes are made illegal, one day you may come to realise that there is no way for you to take action against an exploitative employer. Our govt has come to paint industrial action as a very bad thing, saying how it will scare away foreign investors and cripple the economy. Well, many countries have experiences which would suggest otherwise. And they are advanced countries, strong economies like Hong Kong, Australia, UK, USA, etc.

    Anyway, this is getting OT. We are not talking about strikes. Rather, about a bunch of people who wanted to make a statement about Odex's action, and the police actions surrounding that.

    Does anyone seriously believe the police action was proportionate to the scale of the event?


    Quote Originally Posted by drakon09 View Post
    Aiyah, these people want to protest and strike, go to St John's Island to strike or something.

    Think about someone jumping in front of a speeding MRT train - and jams up that whole line for two hours.

    You simply do not inconvenience the general public just to support the narrow causes of a small group of people.

    And why do you even want to "get used to strikes"? Most Singaporeans already go stark raving mad in traffic jams.
    Last edited by waileong; 8th September 2007 at 05:18 PM.

  9. #29

    Default Re: Singapore anime figurine protesters meet real police

    You simply cannot compare Singapore with the US, UK or even HK in that way - Singapore just does not have the critical mass.

    This is our primary strategic weakness - we're just too dependent on the international community; and the need to ensure that the international community has a stable platform on which they can build now.

    One country's solutions and methods do not fit all - Singapore, being unique in many ways, has and will need to formulate her own.

  10. #30

    Default Re: Singapore anime figurine protesters meet real police

    Really? Then why does our Govt always bring up US, UK, Hong Kong, Shanghai, etc. for comparison in every other area (per capita income, property prices, rentals, education traffic congestion, crime rate, etc)?

    Uniquely S'pore? Another myth ingrained in our population as the truth by those higher-ups....

    Quote Originally Posted by drakon09 View Post
    You simply cannot compare Singapore with the US, UK or even HK in that way - Singapore just does not have the critical mass.

    This is our primary strategic weakness - we're just too dependent on the international community; and the need to ensure that the international community has a stable platform on which they can build now.

    One country's solutions and methods do not fit all - Singapore, being unique in many ways, has and will need to formulate her own.
    Last edited by waileong; 8th September 2007 at 08:26 PM.

  11. #31
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    Default Re: Singapore anime figurine protesters meet real police

    Quote Originally Posted by drakon09 View Post
    You simply cannot compare Singapore with the US, UK or even HK in that way - Singapore just does not have the critical mass.

    This is our primary strategic weakness - we're just too dependent on the international community; and the need to ensure that the international community has a stable platform on which they can build now.

    One country's solutions and methods do not fit all - Singapore, being unique in many ways, has and will need to formulate her own.
    Well, the dependancy on international goodwill is also one reason why the Government cannot go overboard in suppressing dissent either.

    You cannot have your cake and eat it either. This is one reason why non-violent opposition is the only way that any dissent can be effective in Singapore. The government fears an avalanche of negative publicity in the international press, which cannot be managed in-house, and don't need us as much as we need them.

    Putting it simply, I'd rather get used to seeing some form of peaceful protest than having my rights eroded daily, weekly and monthly by an administration that seems to always think it's doing the right thing; without adequate and real checks and balances on policy formulation and execution et cetera.
    Not to mention a lack of respect for diversity in opinions and the platforms in which such opinions are expressed, even while peacefully.

    Is this a sign of a developed Republic that we can be fully proud of? No. There are flaws still inherent, and these should be dealt with so that Singaporeans can feel real ownership and a stake in their nation's future.
    Last edited by LazerLordz; 8th September 2007 at 08:17 PM.
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  12. #32

    Default Re: Singapore anime figurine protesters meet real police

    I agree, but to me it's not just about checks and balances. Even if there was no opposition, one expects basic human rights such as freedom of speech, assembly, press, right to open trial, etc. to be in place.

    But I ask again, to return to the topic, how many people here believe the police actions were commensurate with the event involved?


    Quote Originally Posted by LazerLordz View Post
    Well, the dependancy on international goodwill is also one reason why the Government cannot go overboard in suppressing dissent either.

    You cannot have your cake and eat it either. This is one reason why non-violent opposition is the only way that any dissent can be effective in Singapore. The government fears an avalanche of negative publicity in the international press, which cannot be managed in-house, and don't need us as much as we need them.

    Putting it simply, I'd rather get used to seeing some form of peaceful protest than having my rights eroded daily, weekly and monthly by an administration that seems to always think it's doing the right thing and without adequate and real checks and balances on policy formulation and execution et cetera.
    Last edited by waileong; 8th September 2007 at 08:24 PM.

  13. #33
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    Default Re: Singapore anime figurine protesters meet real police

    Quote Originally Posted by waileong View Post
    I agree, but to me it's not just about checks and balances. Even if there was no opposition, one expects basic human rights such as freedom of speech, assembly, press, right to open trial, etc. to be in place.

    But I ask again, to return to the topic, how many people here believe the police actions were commensurate with the event involved?
    Totally ill-proportionate. The police should have looked circumspectly at the situation, then responded with appropriate and proportional degree of presence, just to make sure that the event was peaceful.

    I am still reminded of the chap that bled to death at Mohd Sultan when the police were very busy keeping CSJ and his group at bay at Hong Lim Park when the latter were already proven to be non-confrontational and peaceful.
    We live in an age when unnecessary things are our only necessities. - Oscar Wilde

  14. #34

    Default Re: Singapore anime figurine protesters meet real police

    Well, they're smart. As long as they don't get a reputation like North Korea, or even like our neighbouring countries, they know the international community will always have someone else to pick on.

    Quote Originally Posted by LazerLordz View Post
    Well, the dependancy on international goodwill is also one reason why the Government cannot go overboard in suppressing dissent either.

    You cannot have your cake and eat it either. This is one reason why non-violent opposition is the only way that any dissent can be effective in Singapore. The government fears an avalanche of negative publicity in the international press, which cannot be managed in-house, and don't need us as much as we need them.

  15. #35
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    Default Re: Singapore anime figurine protesters meet real police

    Quote Originally Posted by waileong View Post
    It is also in the UN Declaration of Human Rights of which Singapore is a signatory.
    Can you point to a reference for this? I'm pretty sure Singapore isn't a signatory state. I'm not even sure if there are any signatory states, as it is a proclamation, not a treaty.

  16. #36

    Default Re: Singapore anime figurine protesters meet real police

    The police should bring their police-figurines to play too!
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  17. #37

    Default Re: Singapore anime figurine protesters meet real police

    Quote Originally Posted by LittleWolf View Post
    Can you point to a reference for this? I'm pretty sure Singapore isn't a signatory state. I'm not even sure if there are any signatory states, as it is a proclamation, not a treaty.
    You're right that it's a proclamation. But it is linked to the UN Charter, which binds all UN members. You should be aware of how and why the UN was created after World War II. And that one of the purposes of the UN is "promoting and encouraging respect for human rights and for fundamental freedoms for all without distinction as to race, sex, language, or religion."
    Last edited by waileong; 8th September 2007 at 10:27 PM.

  18. #38
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    Default Re: Singapore anime figurine protesters meet real police

    Quote Originally Posted by waileong View Post
    You're right that it's a proclamation. It is linked to the UN Charter, wihich binds all UN members.
    It would also seem like we're paying lip service towards the creation of the ASEAN Human Rights Charter as well.
    We live in an age when unnecessary things are our only necessities. - Oscar Wilde

  19. #39
    Senior Member xtemujin's Avatar
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    Arrow Re: Singapore anime figurine protesters meet real police

    There was also a protest at Centrepoint a few hours ago.

    http://forums.vr-zone.com/showthread.php?t=184239

  20. #40

    Default Re: Singapore anime figurine protesters meet real police

    Quote Originally Posted by drakon09 View Post
    You simply cannot compare Singapore with the US, UK or even HK in that way - Singapore just does not have the critical mass.

    This is our primary strategic weakness - we're just too dependent on the international community; and the need to ensure that the international community has a stable platform on which they can build now.

    One country's solutions and methods do not fit all - Singapore, being unique in many ways, has and will need to formulate her own.
    How does critical mass relate to striking?
    Strikes are just an example of the power of a union
    Of course no union will strike for the sake of striking. There are these things called negotiations first.

    If you had an organisation protecting your interests in terms of work, then you may have a channel where you can voice your grievances and get some sort of action taken too.
    Instead of writing to ST forums or bitching on CS. Frankly you have to hand it to these kids, they actually took some symbolic action over the Odex issue instead of stretching out a long winded CS thread.

    Looking at strikes as an example of something which will destablise the economy is a very one-sided view.
    The flipside is that the workers in other countries may be more vocal and self-aware and less dependent on the government because they know that they have the right to fend for themselves.

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